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#696933 14/10/20 04:37 PM
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Heroic though they might be, adventurers can't spend every hour of the day in the thick of exploration, social interaction, and combat. They need rest-time to sleep and eat, tend their wounds, refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting, and brace themselves for further adventure. Adventurers, as well as other creatures, can take short rests in the midst of a day and a long rest to end it.


Suggestion to balance rests :
- food does NOT heal any more.
- each food has a value (1: apple and co, 2: bread and co, 3: meat and co)

Short rest consumes 1 + Constitution modifier per character, same healing as currently (3 max before long rest).

Long rest consumes 2 + Constitution modifier per character and 100 gold per person (maintenance and travel). We can imagine that in the following acts, the maintenance and travel's cost increases according to the camp.

Why does it cost gold?

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Lifestyle expenses provide you with a simple way to account for the cost of living in a fantasy world. They cover your accommodations, food and drink, and all your other necessities. Furthermore, expenses cover the cost of maintaining your equipment so you can be ready when adventure next calls.

Last edited by Tylm; 14/10/20 06:48 PM.
Tylm #697002 14/10/20 05:02 PM
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Arf, it seemed to me to be a high quality solution lel

Tylm #697032 14/10/20 05:12 PM
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I had a lot of fun eating food during a fight in order not to die, but it makes the game less realistic. In a real battle, you can't eat a couple of hams in between casting spells or stabbing the goblin that is right in front of you. Using food and potions - although mostly food - I don't actually have any need for a long rest. I did most of the map with only a small amount of long rests. I probably should be a lot further in the story. There are some things that account for that, mostly with Astarion's story. There were dialogs about him being a vampire before he actually tried to bite me.

I think that food should heal, but you shouldn't be able to eat it in the middle of a battle. I'm not sure that we should have a fixed number of HP for food items. It's a dice game after all. Though it would be nice to know what the range is (1d4, 1d6, etc.). There also should be a limit to how much you can eat before you need to take a long rest.

But if the food is no longer an option, the enemy's difficulty should be toned down. In some fights, I managed to survive only thanks to a large amount of meat (which is usually better than a healing potion).

Last edited by Ashley1Black; 14/10/20 05:46 PM.
Tylm #697140 14/10/20 05:51 PM
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Personally I think there should be a fatigue system. Time based, but also healing based. Time passes and fatigue increases. Healing also increases a character's fatigue. Resting resets fatigue. If you are out of short rests you would need a long rest to reset. Otherwise you are travelling exhausted with lower move speed and stats.

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Originally Posted by Ashley1Black
I had a lot of fun eating food during a fight in order not to die, but it makes the game less realistic. In a real battle, you can't eat a couple of hams in between casting spells or stabbing the goblin that is right in front of you. Using food and potions - although mostly food - I don't actually have any need for a long rest. I did most of the map with only a small amount of long rests. I probably should be a lot further in the story. There are some things that account for that, mostly with Astarion's story. There were dialogs about him being a vampire before he actually tried to bite me.

I think that food should heal, but you shouldn't be able to eat it in the middle of a battle. I'm not sure that we should have a fixed number of HP for food items. It's a dice game after all. Though it would be nice to know what the range is (1d4, 1d6, etc.). There also should be a limit to how much you can eat before you need to take a long rest.

But if the food is no longer an option, the enemy's difficulty should be toned down. In some fights, I managed to survive only thanks to a large amount of meat (which is usually better than a healing potion).


But if food is needed to take a rest, it heals indirectly but outside of fights (exactly what you say), right? And avoids looking for them in our bag, or to click 10 times on 10 different meals.

Last edited by Tylm; 14/10/20 06:16 PM.
Tylm #697221 14/10/20 06:19 PM
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Maybe food is a solution, but then you just force people to loot everything for food, which isn't that great.

Not to mention having to manage another thing on top of: hp, spell slots, abilities, money

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Originally Posted by Eugerome
Maybe food is a solution, but then you just force people to loot everything for food, which isn't that great.

Not to mention having to manage another thing on top of: hp, spell slots, abilities, money


What's the point of looting food if it's to be used as a little life potion? So what is the usefullness of small potions?
Moreover, consume them automatically during a rest facilitate their management, without making them useless.

And money is really not a problem in this EA, especially if you're going to loot your equipment... I would even say it's useless (except for 2-3 dialogue choices).


Last edited by Tylm; 14/10/20 06:30 PM.
Tylm #697269 14/10/20 06:31 PM
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The presence of food does not make potions pointless, especially if they heal at different values. Tying food you loot and find in the world to resting means you would present a hard limit on how many times you can rest, or the food is so abundant it doesn't limit anything and is just an arbitrary requirement. The former isn't ideal because it would present the possibility that a player has used up all of their resting materials and is suddenly stuck unable to progress, and the latter is pretty self explanatory. It's an interesting idea but I don't think the problems it presents make it worth the inclusion.

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Originally Posted by DrunkPunk
The presence of food does not make potions pointless, especially if they heal at different values. Tying food you loot and find in the world to resting means you would present a hard limit on how many times you can rest, or the food is so abundant it doesn't limit anything and is just an arbitrary requirement. The former isn't ideal because it would present the possibility that a player has used up all of their resting materials and is suddenly stuck unable to progress, and the latter is pretty self explanatory. It's an interesting idea but I don't think the problems it presents make it worth the inclusion.


Maybe all the merchants could sell food (at a high price) ? Rewarding those who take the time to loot foods, without stopping others who are lazy.
If you have no more food and killed all the merchants you really want to hurt yourself ^^
And if food is abundant, it doesn't make it useless but just more immersive in my opinion. Not to mention that it takes up space for equipment.

Last edited by Tylm; 14/10/20 06:47 PM.
Tylm #697337 14/10/20 06:58 PM
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I like the idea, this could be a cool feature BUT about rest I think we have to ask ourselves the good questions...

What is the problem with resting actually ? Is it just too easy to exploit, so players exploit it ?

I don't think so...
I think the problem and the solution comes froms the reasons why players have/want to abuse the rest system. Not the system itself.

You rest to regain your spell slots / abilities and/or to heal your party.
If you have to rest for those same reasons + have to spend time going back to town to buy food before being able to rest... What do we solve ?
The exploit ? Yes... The problem ? No...

I know some players can cross the entire game without resting that much, depending their parties and the way they choose to play... But these players probably also exploit other things that don't really work atm, such as very powerfull cantrip and powerfull surfaces, buggy jump, food during combats, dipping...

Try to play the game as if you weren't a D&D 5e vet and as you would if you were not a tactical RPG vet... And you'll probably realise that resting is something players NEED atm.
Not convinced that this is exploit for the sake of exploit. Just look at the "death map" Larian posted in the last update^^


Last edited by Maximuuus; 14/10/20 07:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I like the idea, this could be a cool feature BUT about rest I think we have to ask ourselves the good questions...

What is the problem with resting actually ? Is it just too easy to exploit, so players exploit it ?

I don't think so...
I think the problem and the solution comes froms the reasons why players have/want to abuse the rest system. Not the system itself.

You rest to regain your spell slots / abilities and/or to heal your party.
If you have to rest for those same reasons + have to spend time going back to town to buy food before being able to rest... What do we solve ?
The exploit ? Yes... The problem ? No...

I know some players can cross the entire game without resting that much, depending their parties and the way they choose to play... But these players probably also exploit other things that don't really work atm, such as very powerfull cantrip and powerfull surfaces, buggy jump, food during combats, dipping...

Try to play the game as if you weren't a D&D 5e vet and as you would if you were not a tactical RPG vet... And you'll probably realise that resting is something players NEED atm.
Not convinced that this is exploit for the sake of exploit. Just look at the "death map" Larian posted in the last update^^



I don't think the problem is "exploit", it's more a question of immersion: I want that rests are an act of care and healing, but also that consumes something.
And if the weakest creature with the worst Challenge Rating has devastating bombs and fire arrows, we do have a problem, I agree....

Tylm #697415 14/10/20 07:28 PM
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I guess I just don't see how it adds to immersion. I suspected it was another suggestion to limit long rests, but your idea about making food sellable from vendors would make it more viable and present fewer issues. Ultimately though, if it wasn't implemented to serve a purpose other than "immersion" I'm not so sure it would feel like anything more than one additional chore. I'm not really against the idea, I just prefer that gameplay mechanics have a purpose other than "it's cool".

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Originally Posted by DrunkPunk
I guess I just don't see how it adds to immersion. I suspected it was another suggestion to limit long rests, but your idea about making food sellable from vendors would make it more viable and present fewer issues. Ultimately though, if it wasn't implemented to serve a purpose other than "immersion" I'm not so sure it would feel like anything more than one additional chore. I'm not really against the idea, I just prefer that gameplay mechanics have a purpose other than "it's cool".


Isn't it the point of a game, to be "cool" ?^^
And yes, you're right, I think it will give me a reason not to rest too much, or even to greed a fight, for fear of losing too many resources. I find it thrilling !

Tylm #697747 14/10/20 09:25 PM
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I do not share your opinion on this. Any of it.

System is ok as it stands, but it would benefit from 2 short rests between long rests. 2 short rests means we get to use the cool special attacks an additional time as well which is sorely needed to give combat some extra variety and fun.

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Originally Posted by Skarpharald
I do not share your opinion on this. Any of it.

System is ok as it stands, but it would benefit from 2 short rests between long rests. 2 short rests means we get to use the cool special attacks an additional time as well which is sorely needed to give combat some extra variety and fun.


It will make the game even easier. If I want fast and enjoyable fights I'll play Hack and Slash x)
As much do unlimited spell slots and recover whole hit points at the end of each fight, it avoids having to click just 2 buttons...

Last edited by Tylm; 14/10/20 10:20 PM.
Tylm #697948 14/10/20 10:28 PM
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So...I felt rest/food/heals felt pretty damn balanced. What exactly is the problem? Plenty of food available so you can heal after fights, no need to chain rest(higher difficulties will probably limit how often and where you can rest, so there has to be a way for everyone to heal)
Cleric healing was best used as a quick pickup of a downed character than to actually top off anyone. Plenty of healing potions for in or out of combat health, maybe 5-10 too many light healing potions, but I guess that depends on people’s skill level on normal.

None of the ‘trash mob’ fights required spells, most not even game knowledge to beat. Some of the boss fights did, some didn’t, and all had multiple ways to get an advantage from the start just Incase fornwhatever reason you needed some help.

I’m at some point going to write up a fight by fight review, but honestly they’ve knocked it out of the park with atleast 90% of these encounters. This isn’t a Faceroll game meant for a phone, this is DND and dice don’t care.

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Originally Posted by macadami
So...I felt rest/food/heals felt pretty damn balanced. What exactly is the problem? Plenty of food available so you can heal after fights, no need to chain rest(higher difficulties will probably limit how often and where you can rest, so there has to be a way for everyone to heal)
Cleric healing was best used as a quick pickup of a downed character than to actually top off anyone. Plenty of healing potions for in or out of combat health, maybe 5-10 too many light healing potions, but I guess that depends on people’s skill level on normal.

None of the ‘trash mob’ fights required spells, most not even game knowledge to beat. Some of the boss fights did, some didn’t, and all had multiple ways to get an advantage from the start just Incase fornwhatever reason you needed some help.

I’m at some point going to write up a fight by fight review, but honestly they’ve knocked it out of the park with atleast 90% of these encounters. This isn’t a Faceroll game meant for a phone, this is DND and dice don’t care.


To sum up, imo rests are just useless for the story, and overpowerful for the gameplay. We can recover the whole spell slots, with 2 click. Moreover we can save these easy cause there are no ammunition on ranged weapons. I speak of balance in the sense of making it useful, i.e. creating a reason, a counterpart to using rests. This is precisely a feature of "Faceroll game meant for a phone" to restore life + spells with 1 click. I don't want a hard game, but a game with a bit of challenge.

Last edited by Tylm; 14/10/20 10:50 PM.
Tylm #698003 14/10/20 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tylm

To sum up, imo rests are just useless ... except to recover the spell slots. As much we can save these easy cause there are no ammunition on ranged weapons. I speak of balance in the sense of making it useful, i.e. creating a reason, a counterpart to using rests. I don't want a hard game, but a game with a bit of challenge.


Well that’s what hard and insane are for, i agree it was really easy but I and you too probably are well versed in these types of games, the company still needs normal to be accessible to anyone unfamiliar with DoS or DND and have a good time playing it.

I think I’m on my third play through trying a crazy dual weilding cleric build and am having a blast. They definitely could limit resting but as it is I only got to use my Psionics abilities for one fight on my last play through because the urgency to rest just isn’t there so their main story trolley isn’t moving fast enough as it is.

Tylm #698008 14/10/20 10:54 PM
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One thing i don't appreciate rn is that if you don't rest after literally every battle you miss out on so much companion content. And frankly you have no real way of knowing if you're going to get a new convo or cutscene unless you go to the camp and click on everyone, since the yellow exclamation mark doesn't always show up (at least for me).

First time i played i would only rest like.. once per 2 days. And so many conversations were lost or didn't make sense..
It was only on my 2nd playthrough that i saw just how much the comps have to offer, and how much i didn't see because i didn't rest every 5 mins..

Last edited by Renaire; 14/10/20 10:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by Renaire
One thing i don't appreciate rn is that if you don't rest after literally every battle you miss out on so much companion content. And frankly you have no real way of knowing if you're going to get a new convo or cutscene unless you go to the camp and click on everyone, since the yellow exclamation mark doesn't always show up (at least for me).

First time i played i would only rest like.. once per 2 days. And so many conversations were lost or didn't make sense..
It was only on my 2nd playthrough that i saw just how much the comps have to offer, and how much i didn't see because i didn't rest every 5 mins..


I agree ! "Good" player can miss some important scenario development cause dont use often this "magic feature" ^^

Originally Posted by macadami
Originally Posted by Tylm

To sum up, imo rests are just useless ... except to recover the spell slots. As much we can save these easy cause there are no ammunition on ranged weapons. I speak of balance in the sense of making it useful, i.e. creating a reason, a counterpart to using rests. I don't want a hard game, but a game with a bit of challenge.


Well that’s what hard and insane are for, i agree it was really easy but I and you too probably are well versed in these types of games, the company still needs normal to be accessible to anyone unfamiliar with DoS or DND and have a good time playing it.

I think I’m on my third play through trying a crazy dual weilding cleric build and am having a blast. They definitely could limit resting but as it is I only got to use my Psionics abilities for one fight on my last play through because the urgency to rest just isn’t there so their main story trolley isn’t moving fast enough as it is.


Problem is not only the difficulty, but the "cheat" side of the rest's use.


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