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One thing I was hoping for with BG3 is that, since it's DnD 5th, we wont have this obsession with oil barrels, flames absolutely everywhere, frozen ground and all that jazz that permeates absolutely everything in DOS.... and while it isn't AS much, it's still WAY TOO much. Heck, even cantrips have surface effects automatically, which almost makes them better than level 1 spells. And all those environmental effects cut through armor, and you try to walk around, but there's fire everywhere so you constantly take damage from everything. This isn't a problem in most/all DnD campaigns, and I feel it's overdone in BG3.

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I will agree. This was something I was hoping to see a LOT less of with D&D rules.

I just don't see fire persisting in dirt or rocks just because of an arrow.

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I agree. As I've stated in many simular posts, I don't mind having them present, but it really needs to be sprinkled in conservatively both to keep immersion and balance.


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Wait till they give you the reskinned telekinesis

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Agreed.

I think they would be nice flair for an encounter here or there, and be a fun LIMITED resource to try to save -try to prevent from exploding.

Currently they overshadow other tactics.

Why would I use class specific mechanics to clear the underground temple when I can just use fire on oil and clear most of the room... This leads to poor replayabiliy as the cool class choices I CHOSE lead to the same game play as the first run.

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Originally Posted by vampire

I think they would be nice flair for an encounter here or there, and be a fun LIMITED resource to try to save -try to prevent from exploding.


It would also be nice, if the few encounter where they had barrels they upscaled the difficulty to match the resources available, so that they're not trivialized by the barrels, but instead an insane challenge if you opt not to use the barrels for bragging rights.


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I disagree, but I see the point you're making. I think it comes down to a personal preference. Personally, I LOVE blowing up goblins. In fact, I created a save point in the goblin fortress just before I blew up the first true soul you encounter (I forget the name, but there are about 8 or so goblins in that area, some static and some wanderers) specifically so I could go back and blow them up again and again and again for a good laugh.

My overall tactic for this area, however, was to use Asterion solo and run around stabbing the wandering mobs when I could find them relatively alone. It was great fun! I felt like the barrels would have attracted too much attention if I had used them from the start, so I stabbed the 6 or 7 wandering mobs (including the ones that were close) first, and then blew up the remaining 5 or so that just stayed in the area.

While I do enjoy this tactic, I also found that carrying a ton of barrels around all the time weighs my characters down and keeps me from being able to grab the other loot. Also, there aren't really that many barrels (that I found) and it takes some skill to use them effectively. Being faced with a LARGE force, like in the goblin fortress after you kill the leaders and free Halsin, it's nice to have a few of these things on hand to even the odds a bit. I did see one video of a guy who used like 30 barrels to one shot the goblin army when they came to attack the grove, but that scenario didn't play out in my playthrough because I went on the offensive immediately when I found the goblin fortress. It was a rough fight, once I got out into the courtyard, but I managed to survive it.

Also, it's not exactly feasible (or fun) to use the barrels in every single fight. However, even if someone did decide to do that, I wouldn't be upset about it, because it won't ruin the game for me.


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I decided to try and take out the goblins with barrels and had fun destroying the entire temple with two fire arrows. Lots of fire, jumped to level 4 immediately.

But doing so completely breaks immersion. "Pardon me goblin boss I'm going to put these smokepowder barrels right here next to your throne. You don't mind, right?

To balance this out they need to:

1. Make placement checks. Someone needs to ask why you are rolling a barrel right in front of them.

2. In 5th ed smokepowder is cursed. It just goes off or fails at random times -- this was the agreement that other gods demanded of Gond when he gave the world smokepowder. You need to risk blowing yourself up just by putting one in your pack.

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There are certain areas where there are way too many barrels.
In the temple by the priestess, there are three NPCs guarding a locked room full of crates and chests with stuff and lots of barrels of wine, gunpowder etc.

One of the enemies shoots a fire arrow at me, exploding a barrel next to me, which makes other barrels explode, which makes other barrels explode and it spills out of the room until a quarter of the main chamber is on fire!
3/4 of my party die, the three enemies die, because they were standing right in the middle of all those barrels, and all of the crates, chests and loot are destroyed.

Great job NPC!

As for taking barrels with you and using them, they should probably be heavier so the amount of barrels you can take with you would be severely limited.
A party of 4 people should not be able to carry 5 barrels.

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Originally Posted by KainLexington

As for taking barrels with you and using them, they should probably be heavier so the amount of barrels you can take with you would be severely limited.
A party of 4 people should not be able to carry 5 barrels.


That won't change much tbh, people can always send as many barrels as they want to the Camp and set them up from stealth before otherwise difficult encounters.

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Originally Posted by KainLexington


As for taking barrels with you and using them, they should probably be heavier so the amount of barrels you can take with you would be severely limited.
A party of 4 people should not be able to carry 5 barrels.


Honestly if you're carrying a barrel of that size full of liquid you should be unable to jump, hold weapons, use items ect as well. It should be like when Link from Zelda picks up a rock over his head. Until you throw the rock you can't do much else.


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In terms of carrying barrels - its fun to do it if you want and nobody is forcing you to carry them around - as far as I can tell the encounters are beatable without stacking barrels.

Can you stack them if you want - sure, why limit something that is optional.

The amount of surfaces is ok for me, albeit on the larger side.

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Originally Posted by Eugerome
In terms of carrying barrels - its fun to do it if you want and nobody is forcing you to carry them around - as far as I can tell the encounters are beatable without stacking barrels.

Can you stack them if you want - sure, why limit something that is optional.

The amount of surfaces is ok for me, albeit on the larger side.


Because even if you choose not to use them, there are so many that they inevitably go off from aoes, or enemies.


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And them being optional doesn't change the constant immersion breaking. If the game is supposed to be our DM, can you imagine them describing every subsequent room of every building having oil and firewine barrels littered across the place. And smokepowder kegs that everyone is just huddling around cause why?


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Advanced Bottles and Barrels


Last edited by JDCrenton; 15/10/20 08:11 AM.
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They should just get rid of the barrels, there are pre-existing items in 5e that does the job - i.e. Flasks of Oil, Vial of Acid etc.
Smokepowder, Firewine and Oil Barrels are essentially transforming everyone to a 5th level Wizard with Fireball. It's too strong. For instance, the amount of Nautiloid Tanks you can grab in the intro allows you to one-shot the 2 Cambions and the Commander if you drop them before activating the 2nd wave of Imps, then proceed up the stairs on either side and hide once you've killed off the imps. The 3 devils will stack around the Mind Flayer and you can then proceed to use a candle, a scroll of firebolt or goat the Commander into hitting the tanks himself using a familiar. An extra 100 xp and 3 greatswords is what you get from your troubles, meaning once the next cutscene is over, you hit level 2 with xp to spare.

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Heck, even cantrips have surface effects automatically, which almost makes them better than level 1 spells.

Not sure I agree there. Firebolt has had it's damage reduced by quite a lot from it's 5e version. Ray of Frost is supposed to slow down enemies, and that's exactly what it does with the frozen ground.

Honestly I think both of those cantrips have become worse, not better, in BG3. Why? Well ray of frost now requires a save to see if you fall or not, so it's not a consistent enemy slower. Firebolt is no longer a consistent damage dealer.
I don't mind though, I like that they have some utility, I just don't see them as overpowered in any regard.

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Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Heck, even cantrips have surface effects automatically, which almost makes them better than level 1 spells.

Not sure I agree there. Firebolt has had it's damage reduced by quite a lot from it's 5e version. Ray of Frost is supposed to slow down enemies, and that's exactly what it does with the frozen ground.

Honestly I think both of those cantrips have become worse, not better, in BG3. Why? Well ray of frost now requires a save to see if you fall or not, so it's not a consistent enemy slower. Firebolt is no longer a consistent damage dealer.
I don't mind though, I like that they have some utility, I just don't see them as overpowered in any regard.


As per the combat log Fire bolt is strictly better. Does 1d6 damage. Another 1d4 for the burning. Then on the enemies turn they take an additional 1d4 for burning and if the enemy then chooses to move through the fire, which they often do, then they take another d4.

Original is 1d10. And it can also burn thorny vine terrain, explode barrels, and cause all sorts of mayhem.

Also if you miss your attack, the target still takes the burning 1d4 and is still standing in fire.

Ray of frost still slows movement AND has the ability to freeze surfaces and knock prone. More important, it can freeze a puddle and knock nearby enemies or allies prone as well.

Last edited by Tomoya; 15/10/20 07:58 AM.

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But you knwo that game is balanced around haveniong barrels. Somefights have too many enemies.

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Originally Posted by Rouoko
But you knwo that game is balanced around haveniong barrels.


At least you're honest about it, lol.

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