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journeyman
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Originally Posted by Rouoko
But you knwo that game is balanced around haveniong barrels. Somefights have too many enemies.

See thats exactly the dynamic that fits DOS but not 5e.

5e is not build around stacking explodable items which happen to be everywhere. Can players stack explosives in DnD 5e? Sure, will they be easy to get? Most definitely not.

Last edited by CrestOfArtorias; 15/10/20 08:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tomoya
Originally Posted by Eugerome
In terms of carrying barrels - its fun to do it if you want and nobody is forcing you to carry them around - as far as I can tell the encounters are beatable without stacking barrels.

Can you stack them if you want - sure, why limit something that is optional.

The amount of surfaces is ok for me, albeit on the larger side.


Because even if you choose not to use them, there are so many that they inevitably go off from aoes, or enemies.


There are a few locations with barrels as far as I am aware - the goblin camp, the Zhentarim hideout, and the underdark if you count the mushrooms as barrels? Maybe I am missing others, but those are the ones that stood out in terms of exploding barrels.

But there are plenty of encounters with no barrels, and numerically there are more of them I feel than ones with barrels.

Originally Posted by Tomoya
As per the combat log Fire bolt is strictly better. Does 1d6 damage. Another 1d4 for the burning. Then on the enemies turn they take an additional 1d4 for burning and if the enemy then chooses to move through the fire, which they often do, then they take another d4.


I mentioned it in other threads Firebolt is strong for now. But the 1d4 is the Burning status, which is not tied to FireBolt directly. The burning damage does not stack and I suspect that FireBolt will increase to 2d6 at level 5 as opposed to 2d10, making BG3 firebolt slightly weaker than the 5e one. Granted, they could remove the burning area from FireBolt and put it onto Create Bonfire, which would make more sense to me, but that would mean you would be stretched on cantrip choices.

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I like the surfaces and the tactical options they offer, besides it's the closest you can get to DnD moments like "I toss him into the pile of smoke-powder barrels".
The only thing is that surfaces should disappear quicker (caustic brine...) and not be permanent (waukeen's rest fire...). Barrels on the other hand should be waaaaaaay heavier or not fit into inventory to avoid that sillyness of carrying a water, "oil" and "poison"-barrel in your inventory.

Last edited by Mauru; 15/10/20 10:29 AM.
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I agree completely with the OP. Besides, it seems rather ridiculous that there would be that many barrels of oil just lying around unclaimed. Oil is not that freely available in a setting like the Forgotten Realms. And also, yes, carrying a barrel of oil would be extremely difficult even for a very strong character.

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I agree with OP. I absolutely loved all those effects in DoS 1 and 2. But in D&D, it needs to be toned down. If a person wants to make a field of fire, drink a haste potion (which is oddly in abundance...but that's another matter), drop grease then cast any fire cantrip or spell into it. Spells, especially cantrips, should not have the ability to provide a surface hazard on its own. I'm just waiting for when they let us go into some snowy mountains and start catching snow on fire lol

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I would love a "House Rule" tab in options where we could turn stuff on / off.

1. Cantrips have surface effects (yes/no)
2. elemental Barrels are in game (yes/no)
3. elemental arrows & bombs are in game (yes/no)
4. food can heal hitpoints (yes/no)
5. drinking potions as a bonus action (yes/no)
6. Shove is a bonus action (yes/no)

etcetera.

This way people who like this stuff can have it and I'll just turn that all off.

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I think you are forgetting the implications this would have on balancing, just "turning" them off isn't really an option design-wise. It would mean that they essentially would have to design too games, probably more to assure that all of the systems would still work with one another.

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Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Heck, even cantrips have surface effects automatically, which almost makes them better than level 1 spells.

Not sure I agree there. Firebolt has had it's damage reduced by quite a lot from it's 5e version. Ray of Frost is supposed to slow down enemies, and that's exactly what it does with the frozen ground.

Honestly I think both of those cantrips have become worse, not better, in BG3. Why? Well ray of frost now requires a save to see if you fall or not, so it's not a consistent enemy slower. Firebolt is no longer a consistent damage dealer.
I don't mind though, I like that they have some utility, I just don't see them as overpowered in any regard.


For me, it's not about power - you can balance things around power; it's trivial for Larian to tweak a damage die.

I care about the lack of control. As a wizard, if I want a simple attack that doesn't create a surface (which is quite common if I have allies around the target), I don't have any options. If I want to subtly create a surface without attacking the person standing there, I don't have any options; I guess I have grease, but there hasn't been a fight I've used that in where it hasn't gone up in flames before a round passed.

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I registered solely for the purpose of echoing this sentiment.

I fully agree with OP.

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+1,all of these barrels can go back to DOS games.

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Totally, i do totally agree with getting rid of surface effect mechanics, it totally break inmersion.

For me its like putting lobster in a steak. Do I love lobsters? Yes. Do I love steaks? Hell, yes. Do I want to have a steak/lobter hybrid, helll no.

Let move the surface effects to DoS III. and let BGIII as D&D 5E.

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+1

Nerf barrelmancy.


Necromancy is just recycling...
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Originally Posted by Druid_NPC
+1

Nerf barrelmancy.


Seriously with how powerful barrels are in BG3, Wizards would not bother with spells like Fireball but would instead be researching "Summon Oil Barrel".

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Heck, even cantrips have surface effects automatically, which almost makes them better than level 1 spells.

Not sure I agree there. Firebolt has had it's damage reduced by quite a lot from it's 5e version. Ray of Frost is supposed to slow down enemies, and that's exactly what it does with the frozen ground.

Honestly I think both of those cantrips have become worse, not better, in BG3. Why? Well ray of frost now requires a save to see if you fall or not, so it's not a consistent enemy slower. Firebolt is no longer a consistent damage dealer.
I don't mind though, I like that they have some utility, I just don't see them as overpowered in any regard.


For me, it's not about power - you can balance things around power; it's trivial for Larian to tweak a damage die.

I care about the lack of control. As a wizard, if I want a simple attack that doesn't create a surface (which is quite common if I have allies around the target), I don't have any options. If I want to subtly create a surface without attacking the person standing there, I don't have any options; I guess I have grease, but there hasn't been a fight I've used that in where it hasn't gone up in flames before a round passed.


That is another good point. It really can be annoying that grease doesn't last more than 1 round.

Often I would rather have the slippery barrier between my unarmored mage and the enemy but this makes it more of a liability to use since its always top priority for the AI to set it on fire.


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I made an account for exactly this complaint. I find myself not wanting to use cantrips because of the elemental surface effects. Ray of frost and firebolt are supposed to be reliable single target damage attacks. A way for casters to be able to contribute to the fight without expending a spell slot every turn. Now, they function more as elemental combo starters, and the persistent damage firebolt does makes it better than some level 1 spells.

I'd be fine with fireball lighting the ground on fire. I'm cool with having grease be flammable. I don't like having to continuously res someone because they fell unconscious from a firebolt, and the ground is still on fire, causing them to take additional damage every time they get up.

The encounters I've played where I wasn't constantly dealing with annoying surface effects were really fun. There's a great combat system, it's just held back by frustrating design decisions.

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+10000

I want BG3, not another Divinity game...

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What I really don't like is the forced barrel design everywhere. Why is this such a necessary concept to have?

Nautiloid has some alien tanks lying around that blow up really easily.

Underdark has explosive mushrooms that are just waiting for that spark to detonate.

Normal areas have the barrels. Somehow oil explodes when it comes into contact with air.

Probably the Nine Hells are all about explosive vents or gas or whatever.

Which Forgotten Realms sourcebook or adventure module ever suggested that explosives are a big thing in Faerun? Or even hinted at such?

Please, Larian. Just make a puzzle game that is ALL about blowing stuff up. Get it out of your system.

Last edited by 1varangian; 15/10/20 09:40 PM.
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Literally the first round of combat I played, Lae'zel closed distance and an imp detonated an object I had no hint was explosive next to her...

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Actually, you can carry far more. I found that you could go into the next room over, hop up on the shelf, drop down into the barrel room and basically grab all but maybe 2. The inventory allows you to distribute them throughout your party. I use them in a couple of scenarios - the Gobbo attack on the Grove and later I used it on killing the Grove itself (different character - bad bad evil bad girl). Quite effective.

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Originally Posted by kondenado
Totally, i do totally agree with getting rid of surface effect mechanics, it totally break inmersion.

For me its like putting lobster in a steak. Do I love lobsters? Yes. Do I love steaks? Hell, yes. Do I want to have a steak/lobter hybrid, helll no.

Let move the surface effects to DoS III. and let BGIII as D&D 5E.


First, I would LOVE a lobster/steak abomination.

Second, surface effects just make sense. If you are sitting on a barrel of gunpowder and someone shoots the barrel with a flaming arrow, you're going to go boom. If you light Grease on fire, it burns. This just makes logical sense. One of the reasons you don't like it here is because we have been presented with Uber Goblins, all of whom are holding Acid Flasks, Alchemist's Fire, Flaming/Frost/Sonic Boom/Shock arrows at first level. That's just silly. In DOS2, I hated the fact that because I had a character with Glass Cannon feat, that every single encounter, no matter where I placed her, began with her being attacked. The same is different but true here. Every damn one of these goblin encounters starts with them hurling fire, Grease, acid or something else to debilitate you immediately. They need to cut that shit out and let Gobbos be Gobbos.

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