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Personally speaking, I think I would prefer it if, when you roll, you got to see your bonus added to your roll, as opposed to the current system where it simply lowers the dc. Putting this out in case thats a common thought, seems to me like that would be more exciting to the players, to visibly see their stats come into play. This a common consensus or just me?

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I agree. If the DC of a check is 12, for example, and you have a +2 modifier, your D20 must roll, and the result should show as the D20 outcome + 2 = result. Same with if you have advantage or disadvantage, I would like to see both D20's so I can see how close I was either way smile

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you can look at the bonuses by hovering over the options; however, i don't thing it shows in aftermath.

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For advantage/disadvantage, I would like to see both rolls, with the one chosen in green or in red respectively. But as for the bonus, might be too confusing for folks who don't know anything about D&D rules.

Last edited by Nyanko; 15/10/20 09:52 AM.
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+1

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Originally Posted by Lord Branches
you can look at the bonuses by hovering over the options; however, i don't thing it shows in aftermath.



Well yes but thats not what i mean (though i do think that too could be cleaned up, i dont need to see the full equation a simple "+number" would suffice) I mean as it is now, your bonus subtracts from the preset dc and you dont really feel like your bonus is coming into play

when you roll, you should see the rolled number (say, 10) then you should see your bonus get added to it (say +2) thus seeing your bonus come into play directly, this would allow clear and concisely how the system works and would allow for higher number rolls both letting you, the player feel even better about a successful roll, and allow for higher rolls in general at higher levels

Having watched a lot of streamers i've noticed a lot of initial confusion about how the system works and creates weird situations where attempts have become impossible to fail thanks to the Dc being lowered to 1, which makes the roll pointless to begin with

Last edited by SwordSaintSilver; 15/10/20 06:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by Nyanko
For advantage/disadvantage, I would like to see both rolls, with the one chosen in green or in red respectively. But as for the bonus, might be too confusing for folks who don't know anything about D&D rules.


I dont see how seeing your roll then having it say "Dexterity mod +2" and then seeing those numbers combine would be confusing at all (to be clear I am talking solely in conversations, not combat,though i would like a way to see the numbers being rolled thier too)

I do completely agree with the advantage/disadvantage though

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Advanced dice display mode option.

Leave it as it is for the new player but let veterans get a more clear breakdown.

There are a few cases in the game where I'd like to have more info about the dice rolls without digging into the combat log. I think it would actually be nice to see dice info instead of % chance to hit as well if this option was added.

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I don't mind it either way really, although it is a bit frustrating that you have a hard time telling how much you rolled from Guidance/Bless in these situations.

But then again, I can just open the log.

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Originally Posted by Eugerome
I don't mind it either way really, although it is a bit frustrating that you have a hard time telling how much you rolled from Guidance/Bless in these situations.

But then again, I can just open the log.


I've been wondering about this and didn't even realize there was a log. Didn't BG and IWD have the log running in the window and you could see each "roll" as it happened at all times? That may be too much for some, but I still enjoy that aspect of D&D.

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Just occurred to me, how do we know the combat system isn't calculating things the same way as this? Lowering Ac's instead of adding bonus' to attack rolls. The little log on the right doesn't say numbers as far as I've seen (granted I've barely looked at it)

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I was going to post about this myself so +1

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Sorry for joining in late but I was thinking about rolls in conversation. Thanks for the tip about hovering over the choices to see the bonuses. However, it would be nice to see the roll separately from the bonus. I.e. I need a 10, I rolled a 9 but have a bonus of 3 for a total of 12. Success.

Thing is, and I admit I do not know very much about D&D rules, just seeing my bonuses tells me nothing about what I have to beat. I just had a situation where one choice had a bonus of 3 and the target was 7. The other choice had a bonus of 1 but a target of 14. I have no idea how it calculated the 7 or the 14. And there's no way to back out of a choice.

In D&D, do you ever know what you have to roll before you make the choice?

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I see the points being made. It is usually done with you get the DC number and then the player adds his/her modifiers for her character to beat that DC. However, it isn't unheard of where if the DM/GM actually has all your character's skills, saves, and bonuses to simply add or subtract those numbers off the DC first so you simply just make the roll with the die or dice you are rolling with. I think it is merely just a matter of preference really. Larian just simply likes to take the math out of it for you to just so you either get it on a d20 roll or not. I am really not bias either way. It is different from what I am used to, but I see why they have done it the way they have. Both ways are groovy for me. smile

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Agree with OP
Also Advantage/Disadvantage should show 2 dice, picks the highest. If Disadvantage, red or orange dice. If Advantage, blue or green dice. Regular single dice would be another color.

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I agree, also not sure if I'm missing something but do we ever see DC before we pick something? I know my bonuses but still some checks are incredibly high, it'd be nice to know what chance I have before picking the option, even if I'll roll 2 anyway. I'd also like to see more advantage dice (I've only seen it once with the check where Lae'zel wants to kill me) and a more robust reroll system. It felt like I got one reroll for my entire playthrough, certainly that can't be right?

Also an option to cast friends DURING a conversation would be really nice, if it by design doesn't arouse suspicion why can't I cast it while I'm talking?

Originally Posted by bobbd2000
Sorry for joining in late but I was thinking about rolls in conversation. Thanks for the tip about hovering over the choices to see the bonuses. However, it would be nice to see the roll separately from the bonus. I.e. I need a 10, I rolled a 9 but have a bonus of 3 for a total of 12. Success.

Thing is, and I admit I do not know very much about D&D rules, just seeing my bonuses tells me nothing about what I have to beat. I just had a situation where one choice had a bonus of 3 and the target was 7. The other choice had a bonus of 1 but a target of 14. I have no idea how it calculated the 7 or the 14. And there's no way to back out of a choice.

In D&D, do you ever know what you have to roll before you make the choice?

I too have no idea about this. I'd like to see it shown a little more clearly.

Frankly, persuasion and other dialog checks can be incredibly frustrating right now because they pretty much lead immediately to combat or seriously screw things up. Like if you miss a perception check at the Zhentarim base you're attacked, you don't get the option to use the code phrase at all. Tons of other situations where the player simply is going to reroll.

Last edited by Worm; 17/10/20 05:03 AM.
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So based on what happens now, I could roll and see a 23. A roll of 20 plus a bonus of 3. Showing 20+3 where the 20 is in the dice colour and the bonus 3 is in green shouldn't be too much math.

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Originally Posted by bobbd2000
Sorry for joining in late but I was thinking about rolls in conversation. Thanks for the tip about hovering over the choices to see the bonuses. However, it would be nice to see the roll separately from the bonus. I.e. I need a 10, I rolled a 9 but have a bonus of 3 for a total of 12. Success.

Thing is, and I admit I do not know very much about D&D rules, just seeing my bonuses tells me nothing about what I have to beat. I just had a situation where one choice had a bonus of 3 and the target was 7. The other choice had a bonus of 1 but a target of 14. I have no idea how it calculated the 7 or the 14. And there's no way to back out of a choice.

In D&D, do you ever know what you have to roll before you make the choice?


Well typically the dungeon master decides the difficulty of things so its completely normal to not know what you need to beat until you have rolled, that said i wouldnt mind seeing the dc before, but then that would also dictate what you do instead of asking what your character would do, kind of diluting the roleplay experience, either way id personally be ok with though

theres a system in the book that kinda lays out difficulty 1-5 trivial, 6-10 easy, 11-15 medium, 16-19 hard, 20+ impossible, something like that dont know the exact ratings but as you grow stronger and your bonus increases each one gets progressively easier to hit, its pretty common for mid game level characters to roll over a 20 in a zone they are good at

Last edited by SwordSaintSilver; 18/10/20 04:34 PM.
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Thanks for that SwordSaintSilver. That's sort of the way Disco Elysium does it. Shows you what you're aiming for and gives you an idea of how difficult it will be. It might also be nice to know whether you might get a second roll/chance.

I think what bothers me is that there are times when I fail an attempt and I can't try something else, other than attack or leave. It becomes too tempting to reload a save. Sort of destroys the RPG aspect.

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I think the main thing is that the game doesn't explain at all, from what I could see at least, that your bonuses are subtracted from the DC automatically. I was really confused when I first started playing when the DC was 5 and with my +5 bonus I still failed the roll. The way they have it now with the bonuses being subtracted is fine, as long as they add a tutorial or something that tells you that's what's happening. As for advantage/disadvantage I agree that both d20s should be shown on the roll screen. Seeing a 1 on the lower dice when you have advantage is nice.

As for showing DCs ahead of time, I think they should use the system from the book SwordSaintSilver said, and say how difficult the check is going to be in an abstract way. And then, your character can do an insight check for conversations or investigation for traps/locks/pickpocketing to get an exact DC. I would like to be able to see if a door/trap/chest is even within the realm of possibility to open instead of breaking all my lockpicks then reloading. Pickpocketing right now actually shows you the DC needed for each item you select, which makes it way too easy to just enter turn-based mode and completely clean out a merchant. Having to at least do an investigation check to get the DC would make it at least a little harder.

On a side note, stuff like friends, charm person, detect thoughts, and similar spells really need an option in dialogue to cast them. Currently, if you want to use Friends you have to know a conversation with a charisma check is coming up and cast it before talking to them, and if it's your first time playing how could you possibly know that, unless you're going to save before talking to every npc and reload if they have a check, which is insane. Not to mention if it's a conversation that triggers automatically when you get close there's a good chance the conversation will trigger before you're even within casting range of Friends, making it useless. In 5E, the Friends spell specifically says the person you cast it on knows you cast it on them when the spell wears off, which is the entire drawback of the cantrip. It makes you weigh the pros and cons of having advantage on the charisma check vs what that npc might do when they find out you charmed them, like are they going attack, get a guard, raise their prices, run away, etc.

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