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Even though the true souls competing for the favor of the absolut suggests that they are not entirely enslaved. Someone mentioned that they get 'their' tadpoles at an initiation at moonrise towers. Probably they go there to become true-souls voluntarily but no one tells them about the little surprise ingredient to their new power.


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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Even though the true souls competing for the favor of the absolut suggests that they are not entirely enslaved. Someone mentioned that they get 'their' tadpoles at an initiation at moonrise towers. Probably they go there to become true-souls voluntarily but no one tells them about the little surprise ingredient to their new power.



Which is absurd because the player is keenly and immediatly aware of this, since the opening cinematic. I read in the transcript of the Kevin vanOrd livestream that the Nautiloid section was one of the last things they added, if that is true they royally screwed up their own plot by making us aware of the true nature of the Absolute. It also makes the "evil" path one where you choose to ignore this information and do something you know is not in your best interests, separate even from the fact that you mass murder a small town's worth of people.

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I guess the idea is that the initiation ceremony involves amnesia about the tadpole insertion. The player knows what it is that grants the psionic abilities. A potential threat. But the absolute sends dreams nonetheless. It promises you power and support but it also wants you dead. It appears to be mad. Maybe just sloppy writing.


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Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Nyanko
What if Shadowheart is also a justicar and this is the very reason part of her memory was wiped so she couldn't be discovered and killed until she finally gets to the nightsong and the absolute? Cause when you discover the helmet, she has the same magic manifestation on her hand that she gets when near the Selune statue in the village. I have this impression Shadowheart's story arc is deeply grounded into the absolute raise to power.


Her mission is related to the mysterious artifacts she has. She's supposed to bring the box back to the Baldur's Gate coven.

Now whatever the Baldur's Gate Shar coven leaders are tadpoled and the mission is related to the Absolute is up in the air...


But there is some kind of a weird loop with the fact she stole a githyanki artifact aboard the ship of their arch enemy. Was she after Lae'zel from the beginning? And did they get caught together, one trying to steal from the other? Because when you meet the raiders up north, Lae'zel seems to be pretty aware the party has it but chooses not to say anything. And their enmity is clearly over the top. So they might have a grudge we don't know about yet. Or even better, what if they work together and are actually faking their enmity?

Last edited by Nyanko; 24/10/20 07:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
I guess the idea is that the initiation ceremony involves amnesia about the tadpole insertion. The player knows what it is that grants the psionic abilities. A potential threat. But the absolute sends dreams nonetheless. It promises you power and support but it also wants you dead. It appears to be mad. Maybe just sloppy writing.


You were most likely on your way to Moonrise and a memory wipe in service of the Absolute, the Illithids were bringing you there. The problem with this theory however is that Shadowheart already has memory loss and is probably a brainwashed cleric of Selune, on top of that she has a Gith weapon that we know nothing about. Something does not add up there and I don't know what was written first.

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She was on a mission to steal it prior to being captured. Which is probably why she was kept in a separate capsule with strong sealing
Shadowheart appears to suffer a different kind of amnesia. There is an incentive to have deep secrets and major problems with every origin character. Making them all companions leads to problems.

Last edited by ArmouredHedgehog; 24/10/20 07:47 PM.

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So was the Absolute going to turn her into a "beautiful weapon" like she suggests? Why is she not being hunted by a third party like Astarion? The Gith squad attacked the Nautiloid to get the artifact back but they were the people she robbed it from in the first place, right?

Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

Shadowheart appears to suffer a different kind of amnesia. There is an incentive to have deep secrets and major problems with every origin character. Making them all companions leads to problems.


Well said. Everyone is a main character but us, it seems.

Last edited by Vhaldez; 24/10/20 07:48 PM.
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The gith are looking for it. Considering how important the thing seems to be to them there should be more than one Gith team in the area. Gith are not very good at social interaction with the people in Faerun but they could bribe some locals to spy for them.
The mindflayers knew about it, otherwise why shield Shadowheart. If they were in alliance with the absolute, the absolute should know about it and should know from the tadpole that Shadowheart has it. But the absolute and its followers do not seem to care about it.

Last edited by ArmouredHedgehog; 24/10/20 07:55 PM.

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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The gith are looking for it. Considering how important the thing seems to be to them there should be more than one Gith team in the area. Gith are not very good at social interaction with the people in Faerun but they could bribe some locals to spy for them.


What I mean is that

Cazador already has people on the Sword Coast looking for Astarion seemingly before you crash-landed. A Gur monster hunter is hanging out in front of Ethel's hut who after a pursuasion check admits he is hunting a vampire spawn called Astarion. If you ask Astarion himself about it later he explains that this is a mind game by Cazador based on his siring when a group of Gur beat him to death's door and Cazador saved him.



If that guy can do, what is stopping a literally Godess from looking for you? The goblins and Minthara run into you by chance, lol.

Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The mindflayers knew about it, otherwise why shield Shadowheart. If they were in alliance with the absolute, the absolute should know about it and should know from the tadpole that Shadowheart has it. But the absolute and its followers do not seem to care about it.


Fair point, but what does it have to do with anything then? Another unsolved mystery for Act 2? The Baldurian coven of Shar theory I have read about here is true?

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There is a quest line leading to Baldurs Gate that involves Shar. Shadowheart is supposed to bring the artifact to baldurs gate. But we will also meet justiciars of shar and a shar temple in Act 2. Maybe there are close ties between Shar and the Absolute or their proximity is a coincidence.


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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The gith are looking for it. Considering how important the thing seems to be to them there should be more than one Gith team in the area. Gith are not very good at social interaction with the people in Faerun but they could bribe some locals to spy for them.
The mindflayers knew about it, otherwise why shield Shadowheart. If they were in alliance with the absolute, the absolute should know about it and should know from the tadpole that Shadowheart has it. But the absolute and its followers do not seem to care about it.


The Githyanki might be looking for it, but they clearly have no idea who has it and barely know what it looks like.

It's possible Shadowheart was shielded for other reasons, like her flaring magical powers.

The Absolute seems to have been made aware there was a "weapon" inside the ship at some point. It doesn't mean it knows what it is and who has it. Edowin was going to the ship to find a "weapon" but gives no description. His "siblings" believed they were going to rescue survivors. The Goblins/Minthara doesn't seems to know anything.

Shadowheart has self-banter at the Grove (if you don't recruit her at the beach), where she says she just has to keep it safe (until she bring it to Baldur's Gate). That's probably the extend of her knowledge on the matter...

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I found something else about Ketheric in the Grove. It didn't register the first time I read that "historical scroll" because it only mention Ketheric and I read it long before getting the Dark Justicar story later in the EA.

The person writing the scroll blame himself for how Ketheric turned. Saying he didn't fall, but was pushed via causing him grief. And that shadow twisted his grief. The scroll is probably written by Haslin.



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The player and companions only know about the tadpole because the Nautiloid crashed so the process was interrupted half way through.

Thats the gist of it one can infer, seeing how other true souls dont know and refuse the idea of a tadpole in their heads.

The vision you get from the Goblin warlord of Illithids in a circle, all united, something, something - could be a sort of religious ceremony - process of telepathic union with their new god, illensine ?
And that would be normal for Illithids since they are usually all connected and control by Elder brains - which in this case is their new God. Who is the Absolute.
Which may very well be the new trick the Dead Three are playing on everyone.

Im not sure but i think they have been reduced to having physical bodies again, so maybe they united to be stronger and are hiding as the Absolute - pretending to be the new Illithid God.
Trying to build a new and improved army.

Since the dead three will be involved in some way, i kinda wish Bane would take prominence this time around.

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Originally Posted by Surface R
Since the dead three will be involved in some way, i kinda wish Bane would take prominence this time around.


Isn't one of the NPC in the Goblin camp a worshipper of one of his servants?

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There is a Loviatar servant there. Loviatar serves Bane. But they imprisoned the priest of the goblin god who also serves Bane.
Larian wanted to make a plot by Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul the center of the Baldurs Gate 3 story. The Absolute amulet is the symbol of Myrkul. The altar in the goblin camp fits that story, too. Maybe they decided at some point to make them hide behind an invented god "the absolute" or they thought they had a more intersting idea for a new enemy and replaced them with the absolute.

"Edowin was going to the ship to find a "weapon" but gives no description. His "siblings" believed they were going to rescue survivors."
Did they believe that? They attack the player once they find out that he/she is a survivor.
I am starting to consider the option that everything is so confusing because Larian changed the story and the rewrite is incomplete


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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The Absolute amulet is the symbol of Myrkul.

"Edowin was going to the ship to find a "weapon" but gives no description. His "siblings" believed they were going to rescue survivors."
Did they believe that? They attack the player once they find out that he/she is a survivor.


In don't think there was any changes there, the Cult of the Absolute was mentioned along the Dead Three way back at E3.

The siblings mention going looking for survivors as if they wanted to rescue them. I never used the "I'm a survivor" option, maybe I should check that one out. Eodwin mentions looking for a weapon for the Absolute if you use "speak with dead" on him.

It is possible the "weapon" is your party. Which would mean that "Daisy" in the dream is not the Absolute...oh and that you're just pawns for someone/something.

update: I went to tell the siblings I'm a survivor. They actually say they are are looking for fugitives, then switch to survivors. That explain why they attack you.

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I have an assumption that the Absolute is just a proxy of Lolth who plays with tadpoles, they are one and the same. The following things speak in favor of this:
1.) Goblins do not attack drow because "the drow bears the seal of the absolute." Lolth believes she has rights over all drow.
2.) Minthara talks about returning to Menzoberranzan under the control of Lolth's clerics, as if she would be greeted there with honors and not executed for not serving Lolth.
3.) Betrayal of a character who helps the Absolute is pointless, but it's very Lolth's style to give such an order.
4.) Minthara mentions "test of the absolute" - "test" is a typical mechanic for Lolth, other gods have not been seen in such perversions (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/races/elf/drow2.shtml)
5.) Minthara gives us Drider to help us as if she were actually a cleric of Lolth

It is also obvious that the Shar also has something to do with this. Answer in Moonrise Towers

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Yeah Shar is involved somehow. Multiple gods are and the Hells.

The siblings attacking us is just a mistake by the devs. The Cultists should not attack True Souls at all. We see that in Goblin camp where you are accepted and fights brake out only if you attack them or say wrong things to three leaders.


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One thing the dream sequence person says that got my attention is "agony suits you, suffering less so" and considering the presence of Loviatar it got me thinking, suffering being the domain of both her and Jergal, who is referenced lots as well.

Another thing is that Swen, during the podcast where he mentions the dream NPC, refers to the custom character (player character) as "avatar" briefly, correcting himself right away. Although english is not his first language it didn't escape notice as that is something in the realm of possibilities, either for the player or the dream sequence. Just throwing thoughts here.




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Originally Posted by Ulla G
One thing the dream sequence person says that got my attention is "agony suits you, suffering less so" and considering the presence of Loviatar it got me thinking, suffering being the domain of both her and Jergal, who is referenced lots as well.

Another thing is that Swen, during the podcast where he mentions the dream NPC, refers to the custom character (player character) as "avatar" briefly, correcting himself right away. Although english is not his first language it didn't escape notice as that is something in the realm of possibilities, either for the player or the dream sequence. Just throwing thoughts here.



Probably just a mistake on his part. Avatars of Gods would have increased stats and other abilities that I'm not sure can be hidden.

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