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I think, now, that the Absolute is just appearing to everyone in whatever form that person wants to see. Like in the dreams. If someone would be more swayed by worshipping a goddess, the Absolute is "female", and if they'd be more swayed by a male god, then the Absolute is "male".

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Yeah, I'm thinking that right. I still think the question of what god / consortium of gods is behind it remains. So we have the symbol of the dead three, shadow magic which means Shar and we have mind flayers which would mean Illsensine or Ioulum.

It's far out that but we have one 'triune' goddess already -- perhaps the mind flayer circle that we saw was really the form of the consortium?

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It could be that they are continuing from BG1 and BG2, not the story itself, but the antagonist and their motivation. In BG1 the antagonist wants to achieve godhood by orchestrating a grand war (akin to mass murder), in BG2 he uses magic rituals and steals the soul of a godchild for the same purpose, and even ToB, the final part of the saga, it's about taking a dead god's divinity for yourself.

It might be that the absolute is someone who wants to ascend to godhood and uses tadpoles to create and mind control an army of fanatical believers.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Yeah, I'm thinking that right. I still think the question of what god / consortium of gods is behind it remains. So we have the symbol of the dead three, shadow magic which means Shar and we have mind flayers which would mean Illsensine or Ioulum.

It's far out that but we have one 'triune' goddess already -- perhaps the mind flayer circle that we saw was really the form of the consortium?

Aside from the symbols of the dread three though what other evidence is there for their involvement?

Shar has shown a crazy amount of involvment, and his seemingly directly involved with the tadpoles, Moonrise towers also seems covered in Shar paraphernalia, and a Shar cleric was given a special place on the Nautiloid.

We also know Nautiloids shoudent be around anymore.

If we want to get tinfoily we also have Gale, who's lover could have been Shar, manipulating him,, instead of Mystra.

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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog



Someone in the datamine thread found out that

using the tadpole a lot can give true-souls power over the character.
I guess that this confirms that they are controlled from afar by the Absolute.



yeah, that was me
there are few more interesting Absolute-related bits in conversation with that npc

by NPC I mean True soul Nere, we get to him after crossing the lake
If you are female drow, that this is his reaction to 'I don't take orders from male'
We are no longer under Lolth's tyranny, sister. I take orders directly from the Disciple. You will do as I say.

It sure seems Lolth has nothing to do with Absolute cult, and yet there are a lot of drow on somewhat high ranks. The Disciple is called Z'rell (she's in Moonrise Towers) which also sounds like a drow name

And doesn't look like they care about Shar as well
This heretical ruin once belonged to an old Shar cult. It spooks the rothé. The duergar think it's cursed.
But it shouldn't pose a problem for the likes of you and I. Excavate it, as far as you can.


Although the Shadow Curse (caused by Ketheric if I'm not mistaken) overland is somewhat beneficial to them (or maybe that's just for drow)
While the curse plaguing the land above protects us, it also slows us down. Securing an underground passage would aid us tremendously.
So they need the underground passage to Moonrise towers because it's will be faster

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This press kit image directly says the Dead Three are the ones "hatching the plot".

https://preview.redd.it/f2el4jj0r6b...1dd9358c3c44c94bd84ef7b1ab69385b8ec31b8c

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I'm also wearing one of those Gale is working for Shar tin foil hats.

But besides the symbol we do have a chosen of Jergal hanging out in our camp (or perhaps an old avatar). And clerics of the dead three get a dismissive line from the skeleton telling them he will serve but isn't really on side with their god. Jergal has always worked to subtly undermine the dead three and he could be doing so again.

But yes, all signs point to Shar and Shar is often the master mind in the shadows -- but is she absolute, is she aiding the absolute or is she part of the absolute?

Here's another far out possibility -- that book in the talkative skeleton's crypt takes multiple checks to read and it has the names of all the gods that have been resurrected. Shar could be promoting someone who has been dead a very long time but is off our radar right now.

Edit: Didn't see post above. Oh, yeah, and Larian has said so. Damn you evidence! Must you always get in the way of good theory?

Last edited by KillerRabbit; 06/11/20 07:12 AM.
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Originally Posted by alt-thea
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog



Someone in the datamine thread found out that

using the tadpole a lot can give true-souls power over the character.
I guess that this confirms that they are controlled from afar by the Absolute.



yeah, that was me
there are few more interesting Absolute-related bits in conversation with that npc

by NPC I mean True soul Nere, we get to him after crossing the lake
If you are female drow, that this is his reaction to 'I don't take orders from male'
We are no longer under Lolth's tyranny, sister. I take orders directly from the Disciple. You will do as I say.

It sure seems Lolth has nothing to do with Absolute cult, and yet there are a lot of drow on somewhat high ranks. The Disciple is called Z'rell (she's in Moonrise Towers) which also sounds like a drow name

And doesn't look like they care about Shar as well
This heretical ruin once belonged to an old Shar cult. It spooks the rothé. The duergar think it's cursed.
But it shouldn't pose a problem for the likes of you and I. Excavate it, as far as you can.


Although the Shadow Curse (caused by Ketheric if I'm not mistaken) overland is somewhat beneficial to them (or maybe that's just for drow)
While the curse plaguing the land above protects us, it also slows us down. Securing an underground passage would aid us tremendously.
So they need the underground passage to Moonrise towers because it's will be faster


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.

Also how many dieity's are capable of preserving a Nautiloid?

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I'm also wearing one of those Gale is working for Shar tin foil hats.

But besides the symbol we do have a chosen of Jergal hanging out in our camp (or perhaps an old avatar). And clerics of the dead three get a dismissive line from the skeleton telling them he will serve but isn't really on side with their god. Jergal has always worked to subtly undermine the dead three and he could be doing so again.

But yes, all signs point to Shar and Shar is often the master mind in the shadows -- but is she absolute, is she aiding the absolute or is she part of the absolute?

It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute. My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you. The absolute cannot access your mind directly; it can only "see you" through the goblin (since it seems to have a direct mind link to its followers) and gives the order to kill you once they notice the netherese magic on the tadpole. Which also implies that everytime you use the tadpole powers you weaken the shadow magic protecting your mind, and that is why the absolute can now invade your dreams.

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Originally Posted by N7Greenfire


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.


Is there any information in the game that the 'true souls' tadpoles got tampered with shadow magic too? Because my impression was it's only those who were on that ship.

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Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
[quote=alt-thea][quote=ArmouredHedgehog]

Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.

Also how many dieity's are capable of preserving a Nautiloid?



I'd say the high-ranks would be aware of that. We only met low-ranking ones, except Minthara who doesn't even have a tadpole. And they are putting tadpoles into people in Moonrise towers, so the Disciple is probably overseeing that
Do we know for sure that shadow curse is also netherese magic? Our tadpoles are altered by netherese

Quote
It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute.

I'm also leaning to this after reading conversation with Nere.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental

It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute. My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you. The absolute cannot access your mind directly; it can only "see you" through the goblin (since it seems to have a direct mind link to its followers) and gives the order to kill you once they notice the netherese magic on the tadpole. Which also implies that everytime you use the tadpole powers you weaken the shadow magic protecting your mind, and that is why the absolute can now invade your dreams.


Nice! And that would explain why she hasn't hindered up until now. Can't wait to see which theory is correct . . .

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by ash elemental

It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute. My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you. The absolute cannot access your mind directly; it can only "see you" through the goblin (since it seems to have a direct mind link to its followers) and gives the order to kill you once they notice the netherese magic on the tadpole. Which also implies that everytime you use the tadpole powers you weaken the shadow magic protecting your mind, and that is why the absolute can now invade your dreams.


Nice! And that would explain why she hasn't hindered up until now. Can't wait to see which theory is correct . . .


Interesting theory. It would explain the magic phenomenon saving you right before you hit the ground on the beach and the fact Shadowheart always tries to get to you compared to the other companions who seem to be lost forever if you don't recruit them the first time.

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Yes, this seems to make sense:

"The Absolute" is a tool of the Dead Three, created with Netherlise magic from a an elder brain, and is producing their altered mind control tadpoles. When they have spread far enough the dead three will activate the tadpoles and take over the world with an army of mind flayer puppets.

Shar is the main opposition to the Dead Three, the other gods being bound from interfering by Io's Prime Directive. The protagonist is Shar's chosen instrument, she is the one blocking the tadpole's mind control, and who stopped the protagonist falling to their death. This means that all the origin characters (including Custom) are Shar's chosen, not just Shadowheart. The "DM voice" isn't the Absolute, it's Shar.

It's also occurs to me that this being BG3, (possibly former) Sharian cleric Viconia DeVir is likely involved in some way. Rumours of her demise are greatly exaggerated.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you.

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.
I think there was something mentioned about netherese shadow magic. That would point to Shadovar and Shar but she seems to be opposed to the absolute.
As for Shar

Dialogue for Act 2 reveals that Astarion is a follower of Shar. I don't see a connection between Lae'zel and Shar.


I sometimes use thought experiments. I don't necessarily believe in every idea I post for discussion on this forum
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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog


Dialogue for Act 2 reveals that Astarion is a follower of Shar. I don't see a connection between Lae'zel and Shar.



Well, there is, through the gith artifact.

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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.

That is the point. Consider that

the priestess' attitude towards your character only changes after you attempt the mind meld. Before you are part of the flock, after she tries to dispose of you, claiming to do the absolute's will. At this point it's clear that the absolute doesn't have free access to your mind like with the true souls. If you don't use tadpole powers, it won't even have access to your dreams.


Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.

That is the point. Consider that

the priestess' attitude towards your character only changes after you attempt the mind meld. Before you are part of the flock, after she tries to dispose of you, claiming to do the absolute's will. At this point it's clear that the absolute doesn't have free access to your mind like with the true souls. If you don't use tadpole powers, it won't even have access to your dreams.


Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.


From some dialogue it seems that the tadpole is powerful enough to resist Shar's power. So I rather doubt that this is her work.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
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Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.

That is the point. Consider that

the priestess' attitude towards your character only changes after you attempt the mind meld. Before you are part of the flock, after she tries to dispose of you, claiming to do the absolute's will. At this point it's clear that the absolute doesn't have free access to your mind like with the true souls. If you don't use tadpole powers, it won't even have access to your dreams.


Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.


It could be her (Minthara's) own agenda to get rid of us, she doesn't like to share... memories and victories.

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I like this Shar theory (of her "helping" the party). I had a similar theory, as her being against the Absolute is the only reasons I can see her going after
the weapon the Absolute wants. There are indication in the game files that a dead sharran cleric should be on the Nautiloid in the tutorial (dialogue related to it is still in temporary stage) and that would explain why Shadowheart was in a special pod, she wasn't picked up randomly. The Sharrans might have corrupted the tadpoles before you got them too.

But at the same time, there are indications that the BG Coven sent people in that mission to get all of them killed, but I'm starting to think that the BG Shar Coven was compromised by Absolute moles at the same time...


Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.


From some dialogue it seems that the tadpole is powerful enough to resist Shar's power. So I rather doubt that this is her work.



That dialogue could be conditional to using the tadpole.

And it's not exactly resisting Shar's power, it's resisting the Nightsong's soul sucking kiss. Kiss that might also be conditional. If Shar is responsible for shielding the tadpole, then she would want you dead if you used it as well.

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