You made other similar assumptions. All speculation from a human perspective. The races in dnd are all human based no matter how hard you try. It's like making your own Xmen character.
Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
(Edit: Having given your post some more thought, I'm not sure the two ideologies "race of a character is irrelevant to a character's interestingtude (which I agree with" and 'Humans are more interesting)' are *entirely compatible.
They are entirely compatible -- strip away a character's race, and what are you left with? A human.
I think I really need to throw out some more philosophy here.
We talk about the human experience as if it is "the shared experience of all humans", but that's a flawed and limited interpretation. I'll make this simple by assuming I'm talking to men. As a man, do you know what it's like to get pregnant? In what way have you shared the experience of physically having a child grow inside of you?
For a man, the experience of being pregnant is as alien as the experience of a lizard woman laying an egg. We can never share in that experience; we can only share in the human experience by having it described to us and empathise with it by doing the best we can with our imagination.
No, it's not. That we are all individuals with individual experiences does not change that the human experience is the sum of human experience. You're just waxing philosophically now, navel gazing.
Originally Posted by Ayvah
The only experience you can truly connect to is your own experience. Everything else is the realm of fantasy.
And this is why I need to play an orc.
Don't sell yourself short mate
Originally Posted by Ayvah
"Orc women look like cute girls with smooth skin and human jaws" is the most uninteresting look for orcs, by the way. Unless it's coupled with equally girly man-orcs I guess, but let's be honest, they never are.
Well fortunately I said easier, not easy, and I didn't say humans aren't interesting. You're the one saying people that prefer to play other races are immature. I'm just trying to highlight why I and others like playing fantasy races.
Well fortunately I said easy, so are you trying to make the point that 95% of the workload is less than 100%? You don't have to. It is self evident.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
(Edit: Having given your post some more thought, I'm not sure the two ideologies "race of a character is irrelevant to a character's interestingtude (which I agree with" and 'Humans are more interesting)' are *entirely compatible.
They are entirely compatible -- strip away a character's race, and what are you left with? A human.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
If we agree that various races represent aspects of humanity, that's great, but that doesn't mean a fantasy race represents only a fraction of humanity as a whole and is therefore less interesting. Especially since just because a person may play a Human, it doesn't mean they are representative of all of humanity. One human does not necessarily represent all aspects of humanity at all times. A goblin can feel love, loss, wealth, poverty, family, etc. Depends on the writing.
Well fortunately I said humanity, not one human. You and me, arguing on the internet? Completely uninteresting. The entirety of humanity? Near infinitely interesting. A representative of a fraction of humanity? Much less interesting. I guess I'm making the point that 95% is less than 100%. That should be self-evident.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
Subjectively finding humans more interesting is fine, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people who prefer playing other races are wrong [snip] to want to play those options.)
And that there is a strawman argument. I never said anything of the sort.
trololol well fortunately I said easiER and you were responding to my comment on the matter. Are you trying to make the point that 100% is more than 95%? You don't have to. It is self evident. No turning this into chicken and the egg.
Strip away a characters race and what are you left with? A being without a race that is the summation of their life experiences and their world view.
@Ayvah is on point with his response. And it really points to the amazing power that Empathy and Imagination have and our ability to roleplay things so different from our own experience.
Entirety of humanity IS nearly infinitely interesting. Congratulations. That doesn't take away from other races being interesting in the slightest. In storytelling you cannot explore every facet of humanity at all times. You pick themes, you take a viewpoint, you write characters, you create barriers, etc. Again, If I write a story about a character (this time of no specified race because it really doesn't matter at the end of the day) who wants vengeance for his brother, this is not representative of an aspect of humanity that represents motherhood or coming of age.
Strawman argument? Ha! Really nice of you to 'snip' my quote, dude. Dishonest.
Originally Posted by Dexai
"Exotic" races usually appeal to shallow people and people with an overblown need for attention. Which is also why they tens to be popular with teenagers and other immature people.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
Subjectively finding humans more interesting is fine, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people who prefer playing other races are wrong, immature, or just want attention, to want to play those options.)
trololol well fortunately I said easiER and you were responding to my comment on the matter. Are you trying to make the point that 100% is more than 95%? You don't have to. It is self evident. No turning this into chicken and the egg.
No. You were responding to my post. Admittedly, I said "quick" instead of "easy" there. But in the context of workload they are synonymous.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
Entirety of humanity IS nearly infinitely interesting. Congratulations. That doesn't take away from other races being interesting in the slightest. In storytelling you cannot explore every facet of humanity at all times. You pick themes, you take a viewpoint, you write characters, you create barriers, etc. Again, If I write a story about a character (this time of no specified race because it really doesn't matter at the end of the day) who wants vengeance for his brother, this is not representative of an aspect of humanity that represents motherhood or coming of age.
This is all irrelevant. Humanity's interestitude is not dependent on however many facets of it you can explore at the same time. Humanity is interesting because of it's sum. The sum of humanity's interestitude will always be greater than any one interesting aspect of it. The sum of the human condition includes all aspects of it.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
Strawman argument? Ha! Really nice of you to 'snip' my quote, dude. Dishonest.
Yes, a strawman argument. One that you has made up. I edited post shows you what was I was objecting to (and yes showing when you have cut in the middle of another person's post is standard). I removed the parts I had said because, well, I said them, and I was asked by the mods to drop it, so I dropped it. That is honest.
trololol well fortunately I said easiER and you were responding to my comment on the matter. Are you trying to make the point that 100% is more than 95%? You don't have to. It is self evident. No turning this into chicken and the egg.
No. You were responding to my post. Admittedly, I said "quick" instead of "easy" there. But in the context of workload they are synonymous.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
Entirety of humanity IS nearly infinitely interesting. Congratulations. That doesn't take away from other races being interesting in the slightest. In storytelling you cannot explore every facet of humanity at all times. You pick themes, you take a viewpoint, you write characters, you create barriers, etc. Again, If I write a story about a character (this time of no specified race because it really doesn't matter at the end of the day) who wants vengeance for his brother, this is not representative of an aspect of humanity that represents motherhood or coming of age.
This is all irrelevant. Humanity's interestitude is not dependent on however many facets of it you can explore at the same time. Humanity is interesting because of it's sum. The sum of humanity's interestitude will always be greater than any one interesting aspect of it. The sum of the human condition includes all aspects of it.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
Strawman argument? Ha! Really nice of you to 'snip' my quote, dude. Dishonest.
Yes, a strawman argument. One that you has made up. I edited post shows you what was I was objecting to (and yes showing when you have cut in the middle of another person's post is standard). I removed the parts I had said because, well, I said them, and I was asked by the mods to drop it, so I dropped it. That is honest.
No you changed the context of the post by removing a large part of it and changing the meaning/intention then proceeded to respond to your created intention as if I hadn't said anything more, my dude. If you get to play synonymous with 'quicker' and 'easier' then so do others.
If it makes you feel better I amend my post to the following:
Subjectively finding humans more interesting is fine, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people who prefer playing other races are *shallow*, immature, or just want attention, to want to play those options.)
Do you really think that's any better? You've just negatively painted an entire swathe of people for a subjective opinion. Way to go!
I don't think it's unreasonable to think people generally consider 'shallow' and 'immature' as negative attributes that could be considered 'wrong'.
Humans are no more or less interesting than any other race. It depends on context and writing.
No you changed the context of the post by removing a large part of it and changing the meaning/intention then proceeded to respond as if I hadn't said anything more, my dude. If you get to play synonymous with 'quicker' and 'easier' then so do others.
Which post? What? We both used them synonymously. You used them synonymously when you responded to my post. I used them synonymously when I tend misremembered and thought I had originally said easy and not quick. You're just throwing strawman at me at this point -- I've never acted or claimed like nobody else get to use then as synonyms.
Originally Posted by RatPackGamer
If it makes you feel better I amend my post to the following:
Subjectively finding humans more interesting is fine, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people who prefer playing other races are *shallow*, immature, or just want attention, to want to play those options.)
Do you really think that's any better? You've just negatively painted an entire swathe of people for a subjective opinion. Way to go!
Of course it is subjective. It is my opinions. Are you aware that your opinions are also subjective?
'Subjectively finding humans more interesting is fine, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people who prefer playing other races are wrong [snip] to want to play those options.)'
is a very very different statement than
'Subjectively finding humans more interesting is fine, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people who prefer playing other races are wrong, immature, or just want attention, to want to play those options.)'
within the context of your assertion ""Exotic" races usually appeal to shallow people and people with an overblown need for attention. Which is also why they tens to be popular with teenagers and other immature people."
If you can play synonymous with 'quick' and 'easy' then I can play synonymous with 'wrong' and 'shallow'.
I am 100% aware my opinions are subjective. I have gone so far as to say if you find humans more interesting more power to you. I thought we were having a civil discussion about Fantasy Races. I'm not the one attacking other people for their racial preferences in a fantasy game.
Ah, you were referring to that part. I understand. No, you can't put words in my mouth that way. I have my opinions on why people want to play what they want to play. That is not the same as saying people are wrong to ask to play them. Do you think the people stating their opinions that humans are boring are saying it's wrong of me to play humans?
Wow. You change my quote then accuse me of putting words in your mouth? The folks saying humans are boring aren't calling you shallow and immature. If you honestly don't see the problem we can't have a rational conversation.
That we are all individuals with individual experiences does not change that the human experience is the sum of human experience. You're just waxing philosophically now, navel gazing.
Originally Posted by Dexai
This is all irrelevant. Humanity's interestitude is not dependent on however many facets of it you can explore at the same time. Humanity is interesting because of it's sum. The sum of humanity's interestitude will always be greater than any one interesting aspect of it. The sum of the human condition includes all aspects of it.
Where do I find this "sum of human experience"? How is this collected and how is it calculated? This isn't exactly maths we're talking about here.
To summarise the human experience:
Anyone who says they can put borders around the "human experience" and clearly express what the human experience is not has probably never empathised with another person in their life.
2021 has been starting strong on the human experience.
Anyway, I want to hear more about what races/species people want to see in BG3 and why people think those species are really cool/interesting.
I think orcs speak for themselves on the matter. And I think the burden is on everyone else here to demonstrate why they should want to play any species other than an orc.
That we are all individuals with individual experiences does not change that the human experience is the sum of human experience. You're just waxing philosophically now, navel gazing.
Originally Posted by Dexai
This is all irrelevant. Humanity's interestitude is not dependent on however many facets of it you can explore at the same time. Humanity is interesting because of it's sum. The sum of humanity's interestitude will always be greater than any one interesting aspect of it. The sum of the human condition includes all aspects of it.
Where do I find this "sum of human experience"? How is this collected and how is it calculated? This isn't exactly maths we're talking about here.
It's always in the last place you look.
Originally Posted by Ayvah
Anyone who says they can put borders around the "human experience" and clearly express what the human experience is not has probably never empathised with another person in their life.
Yes, the borders of "the sum of all humanity", very strict and exclusive definitions there. It only umbrellises literally everything human. Do I need to remind you that I'm the one insisting that all fantasy races are contained within the human condition, and that others -- I don't remember if you personally did this -- are arguing with me that they are not? I'm not the one putting borders around the what does not count as "the human experience" here.
The main reason why I want the Yuan-ti pureblood is because of the rich history of the Yuan-ti race and it's a easy playable race to put into BG3 they are mostly Humans away Yuan-ti purebloods are kind of like Tieflings which should not make it hard for Larian to be able to make the Yuan-ti pureblood a playable race in BG3
Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you... Warlock: Greetings my lord- Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
Technical you are all human and are bound by human aspects. What I mean is that even playing as another race you can only roleplay so far. If you are playing as a human it really is no different than an alien. Unless in real life you live in dnd.
The only difference is culture. Even humans have variety in culture. So from my perspective what is the big deal what race you play? How are dnd humans boring? They are better than regular humans and you have exciting opportunities to take part in and roleplay.
Seems to me the only boring thing is lack of imagination.
I think you're sleeping on another pretty massive, all defining aspect of what it means to be a type of creature; biology.
As a human I cannot roleplay a character who has a tail. Or wings and the power of flight. Or claws. Or fangs. Or tusks. Sure, I could... Roleplay a mutant human, but at that point is that even the same as playing a human?
This difference is the most extreme with the exotic races, though even the core races have some unique biological attributes a human would not. The elven lifespan and lack of need to sleep. The half-orc's cursed blood and constant drive to bring ruin. etc.
And these biological differences can have a significant impact on your character. Their body language and how they express themselves especially, but also in how they move and fight and sometimes how they go about solving certain problems with the unique tools they have. How your species reproduces can have a significant impact both on how they were raised and how they percieve their upbringing. A Githyanki or lizardfolk who are hatched from eggs and raised communally will see the very human familial unit as something strange and alien to them which produces interesting roleplay opportunities when forced to interact with one.
Then you have Yuan-ti, lizardfolk, kenku, etc. who all have unique psychological differences from baseline human that can radically alter the character's moral system, outlook on the world, and motivations. Again you could just roleplay a human with a mental illness to get something vaguely similar, but then you miss out on the communal aspect of the race. A lizardfolk isn't just a human sociopath. He was also raised by other sociopaths in an entire tribe of sociopaths with his own religion that extols sociopathic morals. That sort of background gets less and less easy to explain as a normal human being, but as a lizardfolk it all gets packed easily under race choice and comes with a variety of unique biological differences to further the human / lizardfolk divergence.
So yes. I'd say there is a significant difference between playing a human and an exotic race. And while you could make up a pretty insane, convoluted backstory about a human sociopath from a conclave of ex-criminals sent to a swamp who was then mutated by exposure to magic swamp gas as a baby to get a similar character you'd then need to add all sorts of additional bells and whistles to then play a subversion of the classic lizardfolk that wanted to explore their culture from a new angle.
Basically exotic races are an easy frame with which to tell exotic stories about characters who are so far removed from the "normal" human experience as to basically be alien.
I just don't find Humans enjoyable, cause I'm human in real life, why would I want to play as what I already am?
Yeah, but what else is there ...
Pointy ear human ... Pointy ear, gray skin human ... Michael Jackson's nose green human with long pointy ears ... Small human with huge beard ... Even smaller human without without huge beard ... Human with horns and tail. Is there really so much difference? :P
They are different to me. Which is enough.
Besides, I pointed out I wanted Goblins, Kobolds, and Fey'ri, which all fairly different than most of the choices given.
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