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I don't really see any good solution to this. In "reality" there's nothing to stop a group from just leaving and taking a rest if they feel like it. I for sure rested a million times i BG1/2 and it didn't detract from the games. If one really wanted to limit it, there's a few suggestion that keeps coming up.


- Make it cumbersome: Sure, you could make it more cumbersome by making you walk back to town and then back to the dungeon again - however this game has fast travel points. Cumbersome could potentially work if it were really cumbersome, but with fast travel I don't see it will ever be. It'll just be a nuisance, and frustrate a lot of players. Not convinced frustration is the best method to manage camping.

- Non-campable areas You have to leave the area to camp. If it's not a very big area, then see above. If it's a very big area, I'm still not sure that frustration is a good technique to manage rest.

- Chance of encounters I see this coming up again and again, and I've never understood it. It's just a bother. Either the ambushes has to be deadly so you will have to leave (but then they could just make areas unavailable for resting and not have to bother with implementing ambushes), or they'll be manageable and have no impact. Also, it just takes away my play time. Same goes for respawns. I don't want resting dragged out with needless combat.

- Resource limited Make it consume costly rations. I like this. I like hoarding gold, and if it cost a lot to camp I'll avoid it or at the very least limit it. Realistic? Not a bit, but it could work as a game mechanic.

- Fixed places you can rest Designated spots where you can rest during your travels, and no "go to camp" button. So you either have to backtrack or push forward. I think this could work if combined with the point above. Certain safe resting points can be behind hidden doors etc.


Then just remove food entirely and give us 2 or 3 short rests (or limitless on easy difficulty).

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Originally Posted by cgexile
Yeah this is how it was in BG. I would get ambushed so often but the experience made sense. In this game I thought it’s weird to have 1 camp that looks identical no matter where you are.


It's because the MC has an invisible Ring of Teleportation that moves the entire party back and forth to that one camp in the blink of an eye. The game just doesn't explain that you have it. laugh

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The whole system is made more weird when the companions that “wait” for you at camp start to relish in some achievement or battle they were not involved in. Wtf? Gale you were not even there so what are you talking about “we” did this and that on so and so quest!? I don’t understand this aspect of BG3.


The ring also has a microphone so the companions back at camp can follow along...

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The game already contains the tools needed to make long rests less stupid.

Make setting up camp be an in game thing that you do. You can already pick up and set down things like barrels. Use the same technology on bedrolls. Or let players use bedrolls/rooms that they find here and there. Give each monster that is nearby a radius of %chance to find a party during a long rest, and bob's your uncle. Have the current camp instead be "Base camp" and make fast travel only work from one waypoint to another. This makes fast travel less absurd. Gives the NPCs that you don't have with you a place to stay, and lets you rest at reasonable places and times. It also encourages clearing out local monsters before trying to rest, or walking back to somewhere safe first.

Monsters in each area should also have some kind of alertness level/moral level based on how many of their buddies you've killed that goes up every time you take a long rest. There shouldn't be new respawns except maybe like, once a week or something, but more traps, and different patrol routes could work.

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Originally Posted by XavierRiley
... but I have played similar CRPGs such as Pathfinder: Kingmaker ...


IMHO that's the answer to how to limit long rests, right there. The most important point of limiting rests in Pathfinder: Kingmaker is that time is a factor because of plot events (you get better rewards for finishing earlier, or you get abducted by the evil lich who tired of patiently waiting for you to get to him). This increases immersion and makes it worthwhile for players to optimize their performence to avoid a lot of rests.

Systems that limit rests via items like food (Pathfinder) or camp fires (PoE) end up giving players pratically unlimited items anyway, because they don't get the balance right.

Systems that mostly restore all resources at the end of the fight diminish the tactical challenge (PoE, DA:O).

Pathfinder also gets the location right IMHO: You can only rest in certain areas (not dungeons, not foreign cities, not near enemies), you lay down the camp and there you are, while your companions do whatever they do at the camp.

None of this seems to be impossible for BG:3.

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Ultimately there is a huge disconnect with immersion involved with the whole "camp" setting. I am not very happy with it myself. Are we teleporting to camp? if so how are we teleporting there? Where exactly IS camp? Is camp on the map? or is camp in a demiplane that somehow NPC's like the dog or the zombie "revivify" guy can manage to find their way to it. Camp makes absolutely no sense in this game... I dont think there is really any hope for it either because they tie so much story content to your long rests... and incidentally that weird "non existant location that exists somehow".


There are multiple spells in D&D that help players get a long rest in anywhere they are. Most are higher level spells, but the first one is Tiny Hut at level 3. The camp scenario in this game really aligns with zero of those spells and it also pretty much ensures they will never be needed. I really would like them to hash out what the heck is going on when we go to camp though, how are we teleporting all over the place? seems kinda important to clarify that, even if its a throwaway line of dialogue Gale says "oh, I have a spell that can take us directly to a safe place to camp"

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I totally agree.
It's actually very immersion breaking and it works like an exploit bug.
Resting feel totally disconnected to the story you're writing and it's absolutely not an interresting part of the gameplay...

We definitely shouldn't be able to click that button everywhere without any consequences and it shouldn't work as a fast travel.
Resting has to be part of the things players have to manage and think about. Not the cheesy way to heal/restore spell slots/skills...

Localized rest won't solve anything about that mecanic, but it will are least solve everything about immersion.


+1 completely agree. More than the mechanics of it, it's the immersion breaking that causes the most damage.

I would be in favour of having dedicated long rest areas, if you're in a dungeon the tension would build as your party is slowly weakened and you're desperately hoping that a safe place to rest is around the corner..

I remember the mechanic working well in BG 1 + 2. Most of the fights would be about economy, not losing too much health or spells before you reached the big fight that you knew was coming. I remember on many occasions my party being bedgraggled, bloody and on its last legs, but somehow bravely defeating the big bad at the end, maybe losing someone.. But that's how the story went. This is missing with the current rest system because i know i can rest between each small fight so that I'm brand spanking new for the big fight at the end

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It would definitely be more immersive if long rest/camp sessions were restricted. But if this is done, we need to be able to short rest a lot more often.

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Originally Posted by TimVanBeek



IMHO that's the answer to how to limit long rests, right there. The most important point of limiting rests in Pathfinder: Kingmaker is that time is a factor because of plot events (you get better rewards for finishing earlier, or you get abducted by the evil lich who tired of patiently waiting for you to get to him).
[quote]

Or the game just ends with "you lose because there's a clock ticking that we've alluded to but you should have known we're going to actually end the game arbitrarily".

I agree time should be a factor, but not like that, please.

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Originally Posted by pill0ws


There are multiple spells in D&D that help players get a long rest in anywhere they are. Most are higher level spells, but the first one is Tiny Hut at level 3. The camp scenario in this game really aligns with zero of those spells and it also pretty much ensures they will never be needed. I really would like them to hash out what the heck is going on when we go to camp though, how are we teleporting all over the place? seems kinda important to clarify that, even if its a throwaway line of dialogue Gale says "oh, I have a spell that can take us directly to a safe place to camp"


Someone had the suggestion of giving the player an item which mimics one of those spells, or provides access to a "pocket camp dimension".

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Originally Posted by Postwave
Originally Posted by pill0ws


There are multiple spells in D&D that help players get a long rest in anywhere they are. Most are higher level spells, but the first one is Tiny Hut at level 3. The camp scenario in this game really aligns with zero of those spells and it also pretty much ensures they will never be needed. I really would like them to hash out what the heck is going on when we go to camp though, how are we teleporting all over the place? seems kinda important to clarify that, even if its a throwaway line of dialogue Gale says "oh, I have a spell that can take us directly to a safe place to camp"


Someone had the suggestion of giving the player an item which mimics one of those spells, or provides access to a "pocket camp dimension".


It would make far more sense if they at least rationalized to the player what was going on. Teleport, pocket dimension, demiplane... whatever this place is, please just explain it. It dam sure feels nothing like what they are calling it. Im in the middle of Underdark, theres hooked horrors within a visible distance. I just press a button and am spirited away to a completely different place on the surface. Where I sleep for 8 hours then teleport back to the trecherous domain of hooked horrors... I figured that the first time you are even potentially thinking about taking a long rest it is right around the time you get Gale. They could just have Gale carrying some kind of artefact that takes you to the pocket dimension

Last edited by pill0ws; 21/10/20 09:11 PM.
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Using magical items like that in the Underdark could go wrong though... that just as an aside.

I'd say: Relegate long rests to overworld maps and save areas... like Dragon Age Origins did it. If it has to be "rest anywhere", though, then either give a long rest option without the full camp (just sleeping, no extended functionality), or create a handful of camp layouts (overworld, dungeon, underdark), or go with the aforementioned magic options, but best link these to some expandable resource, like spell components, magic item charges, etc.

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Originally Posted by Stray952
There are 100 reasons that long rests should be restricted to specific locations, and on long rest, minor enemies should re-spawn.

Mainly, you can’t exploit it. It gates player progress in a logical manner for scripting purposes, it builds immersion instead of breaking it.

There is no balance in the game unless long rest is severely restricted.

But no respawning enemies please. A chance for spawning random new enemies, both wandering and stationary, starting to fill up cleared areas is realistic however.



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Originally Posted by TimVanBeek
Pathfinder also gets the location right IMHO: You can only rest in certain areas (not dungeons, not foreign cities, not near enemies), you lay down the camp and there you are, while your companions do whatever they do at the camp.


The drawback to disallowing camping in dungeons is that the dungeon design has to be targeted at a specific (average) player skill level. It can't be so large that the average player can't get their party to the end without running out of spells and potions. Or worse, having to backtrack to the entrance to replenish and start back in again.

The teleportation mechanic means a huge dungeon can be designed on its own merit, without having to cater to different player skill levels. Noobs can teleport to camp frequently, more experienced players will push further before camping, or maybe not camp at all.

There can't be intermediate rest points either, at least with the current Act 1 design, because Larians wants us to interact with all companions at the camp site, Not just the ones we've chosen for the party. Also vendors like skeleton dude. It wouldn't make sense for the others to suddenly show up at a designated camp area inside a dungeon.

So even though it's weird how it works when you first see it, I think it's a good compromise to allow freedom of dungeon and encounter designs for players of different skills. It just needs to be explained better -- ring of teleportation, demi plane, or whatever.

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...or simply place premade camping spots into those "dangerous places". Think a bit more elaborate Dark Souls style bonfires. Bottom line: While there are many option to make long rest in non outside overworld regions happen, they might/should be restricted in some form.

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Has anyone found an Inn yet?

I've opened a lot of doors but have yet to run across an innkeep or a bartender anywhere lol

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Originally Posted by Frumpkis
The drawback to disallowing camping in dungeons is that the dungeon design has to be targeted at a specific (average) player skill level. It can't be so large that the average player can't get their party to the end without running out of spells and potions. Or worse, having to backtrack to the entrance to replenish and start back in again.

The teleportation mechanic means a huge dungeon can be designed on its own merit, without having to cater to different player skill levels. Noobs can teleport to camp frequently, more experienced players will push further before camping, or maybe not camp at all.

There can't be intermediate rest points either, at least with the current Act 1 design, because Larians wants us to interact with all companions at the camp site, Not just the ones we've chosen for the party. Also vendors like skeleton dude. It wouldn't make sense for the others to suddenly show up at a designated camp area inside a dungeon.

An intermediate solution is to allow teleportation to camp from anywhere, but you can only return to those runes/fast-travel locations. This would encourage players to press on in the dungeons until the next (appropriately spaced out) rune, but also allow teleportation back to camp anytime if you're willing to do a little bit of back-tracking.

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I rested as little as possible for fear of becoming a Mind Flayer. I am assuming this will have some hard rest number in the future. Seems like incentive enough to me. Some areas did not have a save. Some you could not rest but it was very few and far between. Had a problem with a game save bug. Had a problem with not recovering my spell slots after a rest glitch. Had to rest twice. Hated that for fear of becoming a Mind Flayer.

I don't have a problem with the fast travel, except maybe if I just killed the boss, but left the minions alive. Then, I can understand limits to fast travel, unless I for instance: used a Dimension Door spell slot. I just don't want to have to spend an absurd number of hours to go and sell goods at town because it breaks someones RPG experience. "It's mind over matter. I don't mind and they don't matter." No offense. Let's just assume the going and selling goods was done during the game down time. Dnd does have allowances for down time activities. (I wonder if they will implement crafting time and xp cost in the game.)

However, I do agree about the whole rest thing after they fix the bugs, but not before.

I like the idea of being able to be attacked at camp without casting a spell like "Tiny Hut." This has always been a thing in Dnd games. The problem is that if they implement this players can farm mobs that attack their rest. If they allow me to do this I can and will do so, until I can buy the entire town, or farm up to level 20 xp if they don't provide drops. (What can I say? My RPGs are always industrialist.) This can absolutely be exploited. You have to figure that is one of the main reasons that games like Pillars of Eternity and DOS2 moved away from the camp spawns. They wanted to make the items more finite. Because you can always beat the big bad boss with the best gear, etc.

Not sure if there is a logical way to fix this. I understand the concerns and agree to a point but I also understand some of the reasons they made changes to turn based RPGs.

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Has anyone found an Inn yet?

I've opened a lot of doors but have yet to run across an innkeep or a bartender anywhere lol

I did. Waukeen's Rest.

it's burnt down though

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It is simple. No long rest at unsafe areas. Plus, no long rest right after another unless certain amount of time passes but it is not possible for this game because the time passing is tightly bound to long rests at the camp in here.

So there is just one option left as I wrote above. No long rest at unsafe areas. That's it. You wanna long rest after every encounter before clearing out the whole area, then you have to run to the last safe area then teleport to your precious camp. Or, you try to learn thinking about long term fighting strategies, magic economy and your party setup ( sadly I don't think there will be fully customizable party in this game tho ) before going head first into battles. That's where the fun is. Not mindless slaying monsters as if it is an MMO...

And yes, minor random encounters at camp is a must.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3

An intermediate solution is to allow teleportation to camp from anywhere, but you can only return to those runes/fast-travel locations. This would encourage players to press on in the dungeons until the next (appropriately spaced out) rune, but also allow teleportation back to camp anytime if you're willing to do a little bit of back-tracking.


That is a simple yet elegant solution to reducing the long rest/head to camp spam, without upending too much else. I could see that working

@roberthebard Yeah I caught that one hehe. Just seems kinda wonky with no inns or pubs. I get that we crashed into a backwater berg, but I kinda expected at least a blighted one in the blighted village, maybe with blighted bartender lol. Sure its old hat, but I miss the comfort food. Anyhow, I've definitely noted the absence of watering holes in this first act







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