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I want an underdark camp ground.

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Originally Posted by mrfuji3

An intermediate solution is to allow teleportation to camp from anywhere, but you can only return to those runes/fast-travel locations. This would encourage players to press on in the dungeons until the next (appropriately spaced out) rune, but also allow teleportation back to camp anytime if you're willing to do a little bit of back-tracking.


That is a simple yet elegant solution to reducing the long rest/head to camp spam, without upending too much else. I could see that working

@roberthebard Yeah I caught that one hehe. Just seems kinda wonky with no inns or pubs. I get that we crashed into a backwater berg, but I kinda expected at least a blighted one in the blighted village, maybe with blighted bartender lol. Sure its old hat, but I miss the comfort food. Anyhow, I've definitely noted the absence of watering holes in this first act

Yeah, I think maybe if that village wasn't wrecked, it might have had the usual amenities.

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Originally Posted by sinogy
So there is just one option left as I wrote above. No long rest at unsafe areas. That's it. You wanna long rest after every encounter before clearing out the whole area, then you have to run to the last safe area then teleport to your precious camp. .


It's a good idea but I don't think it works with this game engine. What's an unsafe area? How does the player know it's unsafe?

The camera doesn't zoom out very far, and personally I hate games that say "You cannot rest, or save, or whatever because enemies are near!" when the game isn't actually showing me what enemies it's talking about.

I agree it's an exploit if you see a group of enemies and move out of range to rest, but that isn't always the case. It's hard to avoid that situation where the game doesn't let you rest just because you haven't uncovered the closest enemy group yet. And then it's just busy work for the player to scout around and find out where the darned enemies are that are preventing the action.

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Originally Posted by Eddiar
I want an underdark camp ground.


I feel ya... but maybe we'll still get that, should the Underdark be more important in the game, which very well could be given Illithids are major players in the story.

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Simply make all campfires the only item to allow short and long rests ; there are campfires is coherent spots along the road, have players to reach those locations to be able to short and long rest.

- Use campfires for short rests, this way you can have maybe interaction (and story progress) with your party companions only while you're adventuring with them.

- If you want a real long rest, allow them only to occur in either one specific location (at center of the world map for instance) like we had in BG2 with the old castle (wich could be improved and held all your side companions, gear, merchants, crafting stations etc), OR use localized "big camps" where we have to travel, and where we should see all our companions, merchants and storage.

- Clearing big zones out of enemies could create a "safe spot" where now you can long rest safely until the end of the adventure (like the castle in BG2). You may even find "little campfires" guarded with enemies that you have to clear first before using short rest here.

This way you'll have a sense of logic ; you can use this little 'safe' spot to short rest (around 4h) even in not entirely safe areas like underdark, but to take a full rest you'll need to physically get to a safer encampment, one that you cleared/discovered beforehand.


- About fast travel, it should only be available by physically using a rune (ie. going to a rune location), not from anywhere in the world since it looks silly/too easy.


By those adjustements I think players will get choices, by discovering "waypoints", either being abandoned campfires, occupied ones, or runes of fast travel, wich should give many options to how they want to play their quest.
Do they want to travel with same companions all the way, only resting by short periods and only talking to them, or backing to the last big safe zone to spend the night with all of them, at the cost of a less steady progression...

And players will have a bit more of pressure, in the way they wont have access to an immediate campfire, and may want to be more careful with ressources (consumables and spell slots), knowing they will not be able to refill everyone as will in every situation, but they will always get the options to get back to latest waypoint (being rune of fast travel or campfire) to resplenish ressources before venturing forth.


Last edited by FenrisC; 22/10/20 10:52 AM.
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Originally Posted by FenrisC
Simply make all campfires the only item to allow short and long rests ; there are campfires is coherent spots along the road, have players to reach those locations to be able to short and long rest.

- Use campfires for short rests, this way you can have maybe interaction (and story progress) with your party companions only while you're adventuring with them.

- If you want a real long rest, allow them only to occur in either one specific location (at center of the world map for instance) like we had in BG2 with the old castle (wich could be improved and held all your side companions, gear, merchants, crafting stations etc), OR use localized "big camps" where we have to travel, and where we should see all our companions, merchants and storage.

- Clearing big zones out of enemies could create a "safe spot" where now you can long rest safely until the end of the adventure (like the castle in BG2). You may even find "little campfires" guarded with enemies that you have to clear first before using short rest here.

This way you'll have a sense of logic ; you can use this little 'safe' spot to short rest (around 4h) even in not entirely safe areas like underdark, but to take a full rest you'll need to physically get to a safer encampment, one that you cleared/discovered beforehand.


- About fast travel, it should only be available by physically using a rune (ie. going to a rune location), not from anywhere in the world since it looks silly/too easy.


By those adjustements I think players will get choices, by discovering "waypoints", either being abandoned campfires, occupied ones, or runes of fast travel, wich should give many options to how they want to play their quest.
Do they want to travel with same companions all the way, only resting by short periods and only talking to them, or backing to the last big safe zone to spend the night with all of them, at the cost of a less steady progression...

And players will have a bit more of pressure, in the way they wont have access to an immediate campfire, and may want to be more careful with ressources (consumables and spell slots), knowing they will not be able to refill everyone as will in every situation, but they will always get the options to get back to latest waypoint (being rune of fast travel or campfire) to resplenish ressources before venturing forth.



Or you can just use the system from BG2. I think this is the best compromise.

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Originally Posted by Eddiar
I want an underdark camp ground.

This would be wonderful.

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Originally Posted by Postwave
Originally Posted by TimVanBeek

IMHO that's the answer to how to limit long rests, right there. The most important point of limiting rests in Pathfinder: Kingmaker is that time is a factor because of plot events (you get better rewards for finishing earlier, or you get abducted by the evil lich who tired of patiently waiting for you to get to him).


Or the game just ends with "you lose because there's a clock ticking that we've alluded to but you should have known we're going to actually end the game arbitrarily".

I agree time should be a factor, but not like that, please.


I get that Pathfinder KM was very frustrating, because it did not explain this mechanic well, and it did have a game over consequence here and there, but a) that can be easily improved, and b) all other systems mentioned in this thread basically achieve to make resting slightly or much more annoying.

Like in BG:2 you can basically blast your way through each encounter by using all your resources, then put on a podcast while watching your group slowly walk through dungeons and loading screens until you reach open space just outside of Firkrags home, then rest, repeat.

Constantly thinking "man, if I use this cool spell, I have to look at 6 loading screens until I can proceed" is not my idea of fun.

Figuring out how to avoid damage, how to build a group that excels in every situation, how to plan exploration in order to save time, because there are story consequences if you don't, is much more appealing to me.
And I note that Larian has already taken a few steps into this direction (buildings on fire will have burnt after your rest, killing those inside. Your infection might trigger, or at least get significantly worse, with each rest, your companions warn you.)

Last edited by TimVanBeek; 22/10/20 06:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mister Monster
'You've rested recently, you must wait X minutes to rest again'.

That sounds like bad idea ... i would not drag realtime to this game, once you get two tough encounters in single hour ... then you spend half day exploring the map, and will not need to rest at all.

Originally Posted by Stray952
There are 100 reasons that long rests should be restricted to specific locations, and on long rest, minor enemies should re-spawn.

Well ... i gues there is many abandoned camps in this game (even in spider cave is one O_o) so i gues some "save spots" where you can travel to your camp and rest should do fine ...
Since it was multiply mentioned that camp will have huge meaning in gameprogress ... i gues we just will have to made our peace with the fact that we cant rest on specific locations ...
But that respawning enemies are great idea ... not sure how it will mess with XP gain tho. :-/


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“If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. And if you got caught you didn’t try hard enough!”
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Originally Posted by TimVanBeek
Originally Posted by Postwave
Originally Posted by TimVanBeek

IMHO that's the answer to how to limit long rests, right there. The most important point of limiting rests in Pathfinder: Kingmaker is that time is a factor because of plot events (you get better rewards for finishing earlier, or you get abducted by the evil lich who tired of patiently waiting for you to get to him).


Or the game just ends with "you lose because there's a clock ticking that we've alluded to but you should have known we're going to actually end the game arbitrarily".

I agree time should be a factor, but not like that, please.


I get that Pathfinder KM was very frustrating, because it did not explain this mechanic well, and it did have a game over consequence here and there, but a) that can be easily improved, and b) all other systems mentioned in this thread basically achieve to make resting slightly or much more annoying.

Like in BG:2 you can basically blast your way through each encounter by using all your resources, then put on a podcast while watching your group slowly walk through dungeons and loading screens until you reach open space just outside of Firkrags home, then rest, repeat.

Constantly thinking "man, if I use this cool spell, I have to look at 6 loading screens until I can proceed" is not my idea of fun.

Figuring out how to avoid damage, how to build a group that excels in every situation, how to plan exploration in order to save time, because there are story consequences if you don't, is much more appealing to me.
And I note that Larian has already taken a few steps into this direction (buildings on fire will have burnt after your rest, killing those inside. Your infection might trigger, or at least get significantly worse, with each rest, your companions warn you.)



Players really don't like it when the game punishes them for playing the way they like (Even if punish are negligible).
This is reason why time limits are so rare, this is always an element that is criticized.
Mansion will burn forever if you don't get close.





Last edited by Rhobar121; 23/10/20 09:45 AM.
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+1 rest today is broken, is not immersive at all and is unbalanced for classes that depends on short rest, i won't propose solutions, but i'm raising a problem

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I agree.

I believe they are not decided yet on how to handle Long Rest/Short Rest and fast travel exactly yet. I am sure they will err on a side of player agency and maybe for Normal difficulty we'd get a lightly restricted rest system and then they will let players have the agency to exploit it or not on their conscience.

I personally would like rest to be more restrictive, as limited resources is part of where the fun is, so I hope for tactician or whatever higher difficulty they conjure - they will put some sort of more restrictive limiter one way or another, whether if it's requiring heavy supplies you can't steal or rest only in the designated safe zones and fast travel only at the circles.

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I hate the free teleport to camp. It eliminates all excitement and risk involved in exploring.

I blindly jumped down to the Underdark with no means to get back to the surface. But oh, I can just press a button to teleport to the surface camp for a safe long rest. Lame.

Keep the camp as a base but localize long rests! Long rest in dangerous places should mean chance of a random encounter.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
I hate the free teleport to camp. It eliminates all excitement and risk involved in exploring.

I blindly jumped down to the Underdark with no means to get back to the surface. But oh, I can just press a button to teleport to the surface camp for a safe long rest. Lame.

Keep the camp as a base but localize long rests! Long rest in dangerous places should mean chance of a random encounter.

Agree.
Main Camp, in whatever shape that takes as the game progresses, should only be accessible if safe to do and once rested, should ask you where you wish to travel to. There are enough teleport areas that I have seen (not been to the UD yet) that mean that I can get back wo where I was if that is what I still need to do. For example, I was battling the Hag, or her minions to be precise. Needed to rest so went back to camp. Decided I didn't have the gear or patience to to progress all the way so I went back to camp. Next day though, after the Tiefling party (ironically) I am back outside the Hag's hut. So yeah I can teleport away from there, but if there is a teleport requirement to this example, I would rather be at that camp location physically and have to travel FROM camp to a location of my choice. Preferably with potential of random encounters, but that is perhaps a separate discussion.

I appreciate there is a "get you back in the action" concept here, but from an immersion stand point it just doesn't work. SO yes, something similar to how it worked in BG2 is actually the way to go.

That way I can select to rest short or long in current location with all the risks that involves if I want to stay on my current path, or high tail it back to camp if I want that certainty of security/party member swapping.

On THAT topic... when in Camp, can we make companion swapping NOT be a conversation? It's as clunky as the chain / unchain party move concept. No I don't want to be asked every time I leave camp what my party constellation is, but certainly when in Camp I would prefer a more streamlined approach. If you want to keep the whole banter thing, then that's fine, but do it as a side comment as the scorned party member waltzes off to wait at their spot.

Maybe there is a conversation branch here that I have yet to see where this cinematic approach makes sense, but then make it a cinematic at THAT point (i.e. it's imperative that the character says or asks something - such as "well then I am leaving for good!"). Is this therefore simply a "controller friendly" approach?

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Keep the camp as a base but localize long rests! Long rest in dangerous places should mean chance of a random encounter.


If the game worked that way, why would you ever go back to the camp site?

We're forced to teleport to the camp site for a long rest because that's where stuff happens to drive the plot, like dream sequences and scripted companion interactions. You wouldn't see those other companions, or the skeleton dude, the dog, etc. with localized long rest sites.

I suppose that if Larian follows through with locking our companions after Act 1, there would be less reason to have that kind of "hub" area. Visits to the camp site could be optional, just to pet the dog or talk to skeleton dude. But right now it feels like this will be how the game works all the way through. The teleportation camp allows Larian to throw plot elements at us, regardless of where our party is actually located.

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Originally Posted by Frumpkis
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Keep the camp as a base but localize long rests! Long rest in dangerous places should mean chance of a random encounter.


If the game worked that way, why would you ever go back to the camp site?

We're forced to teleport to the camp site for a long rest because that's where stuff happens to drive the plot, like dream sequences and scripted companion interactions. You wouldn't see those other companions, or the skeleton dude, the dog, etc. with localized long rest sites.

I suppose that if Larian follows through with locking our companions after Act 1, there would be less reason to have that kind of "hub" area. Visits to the camp site could be optional, just to pet the dog or talk to skeleton dude. But right now it feels like this will be how the game works all the way through. The teleportation camp allows Larian to throw plot elements at us, regardless of where our party is actually located.
I've been making a similar point in other threads.

The game feels designed so that you take long rests frequently in order to move a lot of these plot elements forward. That's why there's only one short rest and the combat is on the difficult side. It's all structured to encourage you to go to your camp regularly.

And as we'll have even more companions in the final game, they'll want us to shake up our party mix frequently, there'll be more in-camp conversations to have, and so on. We'll have one act to figure who our final 3 will be before moving to the next act.

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Originally Posted by brunotavm
I Think i'ts Really weird this behavior from going directly from where you are to the camp, i've seen a scene where the player is locked on a cell without a rogue on the party, so he simply take a rest, go to camp, switch party members to have a rogue and than picklock the cell, it was really immersion breaking.
My Sugestion is: if you are inside a dungeon, don't allow player to take long rest (why would you do that on a hostile environment) or simply during the rest skip the time and don't allow the user to go to camp, only allowing to go to the camp if you are in world map



Definitely weird. I was hoping a lot of these weird things where you can abuse and metagame the hell out of it would be fixed for final version and was like this now to give us more freedom to test other areas of the game. But camp should be something more improvised you do along the way, always at different places while you travel, not always coming back to the same location

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Hey guys,

For a long rest you are able to do it at ANY point in the game. It makes your decisions in combat worth a lot less, guaranteeing you can get back to full health and spell slots at the end.

For a long rest you can be 2 stories deep in a dungeon, hit one button, and boom your back with full stats. In Solasta there are designated areas Only where you can short rest. In RL the DM may hint its not safe, or if you do attempt to long rest you will not gain the full benefit for such and such reasons(like danger). Not to mention getting attacked at the time of your short rest - Random Encounter.

For Short rest being able to just auto rest without any safety precautions is also a bit easy for the players. Also Warlocks' Hex spell duration changed from being 1 hour to infinite time should be adjusted. I know it maybe a balance issue because he only has limited spell slots, and a tabletop translating into a video game needs to be a bit gamey at times.

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Although it's not shown, is there a passage of time while playing and does it matter? For example, does it matter whether you hit the space bar to force turn based play, and therefore effectively a pause if you have to AFK? Also, can you short rest more than once between camping, and does time passage matter for that? I am usually out of spells pretty quick, especially after one short rest, and prefer to just camp anyway, so does time passage affect when another short rest would be available? I hope all that makes sense.


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There is no time elapsing currently.
The only moment where the game catches that "time passed" is when you go to sleep.

Long rest resets short rest.

No idea if there are triggers attached to short rests. There are triggers attached to long rest.


Alt+ left click in the inventory on an item while the camp stash is opened transfers the item there. Make it a reality.
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