Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback BG3 Resting discussion

yeah thought so.... forget I said anything then lol

As for me, story > ... > mechanics.
If i think about it, most of my favorite games were mechanically weak like bg2, dao, nn, gothic, me or witcher

same here.

Spell slots already serve as the D&D equivalent of Mana - a spell casting resource that limits the amount of spells you can cast.

Not exactly. As a rule, mana is a self-renewable resource. In most cases, it regenerates very quickly outside of combat.
I've always thought of mp as some kind of cooldown.

I thought I responded, but seems not.

Exhaustion as pointed out is loosely related D&D core mechanic there, does not indicate anything in regards to any potential rest system.


I'm inclinded to think Larian will figure something out at least for higher difficulties at launch. For Normal, though, would not be surprised to see it remaining as is with only limitation not resting near enemies - NWN/NWN2 did just that and somehow these games did not explode there. Heck old BG games were not restrictive there either, you had proximity and little else.

So Larian might just go same route of long rest being generally available plenty.

I don't know any D&D game that had a different rest system than bg / nn.

[Might be minor spoilers in the comment? ]

I agree that it feels weird that we're being urged forward cause we might turn into squid-face at any given time, but at the same time you gotta rest for 2 reasons A) spells, which is fine. I get that. B) To interact with companions - this is not as fine. Why are you trying to rush us, in a story perspective, while forcing us to slow-phase in order to enjoy the story you wrote for us?

It seems counter-productive. Surely Larian want us to see and enjoy the story that they developed for us - but at the same time they hide 80% of our companion conversations to rests that needs to be triggered often in order to not miss out on anything, BUUUT we're in a hurry, so we shouldn't waste time making camp unless it is necessarily.

Now, without changing the system a lot - these are my proposed (possible?) solutions to the problem regarding resting for companion conversations:

A) Day and night cycle, which Larian already said "nope.avi" to.

B) Let us know when our companions want to talk - give us a hint, like ""Gale glances at you, repeatedly. It seems like he wants a word - you should go see him next time we make camp." or even have our companions say: "EY, I gotta talk to you when we got a spare moment" so that we don't do needless rests just to check if we've activated any triggers. If we interact with said companion and it really turns out to be something not suitable for a place that is not camp (for whatever reason?) then have them directly say: "Now is not a good time, but I need a word with you later." .... Wouldn't this be a somewhat decent solution considering how the system works at the moment, or am I missing something? (out of the companion story aspect only)

C) (can be combinded with B) Make the majority of these conversations available while not being in dangerous areas. If we're on the road (or at the druid sanctuary) with no enemy in sight, then what is the reason Wyll can't tell me "DAMN, you're great at fighting goblins!" ?

As much as I know that Larian has already said no, I really think they should've added a Day and Night cycle, and then have resting affect the day/night cycle; long rests by 8 hours, and short rests by 1 hour. Such changes would also be immensely useful for future D&D adventures should Larian studios ever decide to use them. Day and Night cycles also help create the sense of urgency.

I would personally love a day/night cycle, it is just more immersive to me.

Anywho.

I believe these are consequences of a poorly thought out story that was quickly made up in order to give us players an excuse to cooperate with NPCs that would oppose our own moral clock, and an somewhat immersive explanation as to why morally deviant characters would possibly work with us.

It is a conequence of poor storytelling; which I believe could be salvaged but this requires a lot more work on Larian's hands, as it requires some deeper coding changes, and possibly dialogue changes, neither of which we will get by now, but explaining what I have thought up throughout the day, may give Larian an idea.

I still think there should be a price for not resting enough, and a price for resting. I have suggested before that we get an exhaustion debuff if we do not rest enough, this exhaustion debuff will only worsen the more we do not rest. Long rests themselves will cost supplies, that we will somehow have to pay for, or gather enough ingredients (buy ingredients for cheaper) to craft. This will work itself into the economy of the game, and it will give us players an incentive to loot other things, and not just barrels. Cooking could be worked into the long-rest system, add it to one of the already existing skillchecks, much like in pathfinder, you can get some extra buffs for cooking certain foods (In pathfinder kingmaker every character has a favourite dish, and preparing that dish during camping will give that character a buff.)

That would be the simpler part of my overall idea.

In terms of the stories related to long-resting, it needs an overhaul. We need to be able to get more of these stories outside of long-resting. In regards to the tadpole, I think we should see some effects of it's use outside of our dreams. The first two or three times may be related to our characters sleeping, I would suggest only the first two times. After that the tadpole would have gotten enough strength to affect our characters more so while still awake and alert, we can still have the visions but we will get them shortly after having used the tadpole again, in the world and not just camping area, following the second dream scenario. It adds a sense of urgency to the story, without adding a timer. I would also suggest to add a debuff and a second buff to more usage of the tadpole, overall I think it should start affecting us regardless of use, but if you do not use the tadpole it would come later on, up until then we should have dialogue related to having not used it, a second story path throughout the game rather than just at the end (Which is probably the only place we'll see a difference in that regard right now, would not surprise me... I know this kind of story-design by now.) Anyway back to the buff, debuff, currently we only get a debateable powerful ability when using the tadpole. I would add to that, a passive buff such as an addition to some of our skillchecks that is decide based on our dialogue choice when "conversing" with the tadpole, and a debuff to the reverse. So if you get a mental buff you get a physical debuff (Nothing so specific, but just an idea that can be built on.)

We need to be able to further companion stories out in the world and not just in camps, to remove the feeling of force to rest because one wants to experience the story. It is not that big of a problem in this regard in terms of story if we add a mechanic that would force us to rest occasionally, but moving some of the camp scenes into the actual world instead, would add to a better flow both in terms of gameplay and story.

Larian wants people to go to camp a lot and get story cutscenes.
BG3 currently only allows 1 short rest per long rest.
5e has a strong focus on resource/rest management and is typically ~2-4 short rests per long rest.

Why not have BG3 short rests take place at camp, with appropriate (e.g., Raphael, but not the parasite dreams) cutscenes for these shorter rests?

This would allow for the sense of urgency given initially by the story while also allowing for enough camp cutscenes.
--In this scenario I'm arguing for 3-4 short rests per long rests.
--Not exactly sure what the criteria for long resting would be, maybe some # of dialogues, or in-game time, or # of short rests, or food requirement...?

Changing the short rest doesn't make much sense since you can still use the long rest.
I do not believe that the long rest will be limited as it can easily block a player's progress if too restrictive.
If it is not, what is the point of the restrictions?
Introducing pseudo-restrictions does not make sense if all they do is waste the player's time.

I said in my post that long resting would likely have some restrictions??? And even if it didn't, increasing the # of short rests would still change things as players would/could short rest again instead of long resting.
This could also be an option for only hard+ difficulties: "Hard difficulty includes realistic resting. You can't take a long rest until _____"

Make the camp option into short rest.

Make the long rest something you earn, like inspiration points.... you can take a long rest at certain points in the game, thus SEVERELY restricting it.

But you can short rest all you want.

Just a thought. Feedback?

I still believe that spome "rested bar" slowly deplenishing by walking, and talking, fast deplenishing by fighting, and partialy replenishing by short rests ...
Causing exhaustion and stat disadvantages if ignored, and preventing long rest until partialy deplenished, with both short rest used ...

Shall work best.

- If you stick long rests only to specific places in story, people will loose freedon in their own storymanagement ... wich leads to frustration, and unhappyness. Also it would feel incredibly stupid to "have to rest" after my mage have single spellslot used, since i managed that last fight with cantrips ... and then being two hours without rest, since i was focusing on sidequests. Simmilar as it is with autosaves, also horrible pain in ... places.
- If you stick long rests to specific locations, all you get is the same system, where people need to "return" few minutes back, before resting ... wich dont bring anything new, except boring and uninteresting need of returning to where you have nothing else to do.
- If you stick long rests to specific locations, AND you shall add some one-time-use item that will alow long resting ... like tent, or sleeping bag, or at least pad ... and you find out some reason to why this item is useable only once ... or shall hope for players forgiveness (good luck tho) ... that could acutaly work, unless vendors have tons of those items, and unless you dont mind that players will be mad about needing to create camp on certain locations, yet allways camping at that same place, since Larian allready told us that they are planing to use camp a lot in story.

Agreed.

Though it does seem like the key to making the game more challenging would be controlling long rest.

Maybe have a setting, like BG enhanced versions, saying easy/core/ hard, and limit long rest based on the choice too?

I think the whole triad of rest-camp-travel should be heavily reworked. They kind of depend on each other.

Travel: scrap waypoints entirely, use TW3-like signpost. You need to get to a signpost to fast travel to another one (and discover them first). Some might be conditionally available (like places where you'd realistically might have trouble getting to easily).

Camp: remove "teleporting to a secret stationary camp from anywhere". Make some alternative "backgrounds": open terrain, grasslands, forest, riverside, cave to symbolize setting up camp in different areas. No need to be extremely specific, enough to symbolize that you are indeed setting camp in the Underdark not far from the place you hit the "rest" button, rather than suddenly teleporting to wilderness with starry sky above you.

Rest: limit long rest to certain "safe" areas (like friendly settlements) or "cleared" areas: say, explored wilderness without dangers nearby or a room in a dungeon with no unexplore areas close by. If "cleared area" system is too complicated, overlay "safe resting spots" on the map and have characters mention something like "good place to rest" when first visiting a new "safe" area.

I also like the idea of bringing up the camp when short resting - would be an improvement to pacing. I'd also suggest making this "camp-lite" on short rests; don't show camp elements (tents and what not), just your party taking a breather and having the opportunity to talk.

Agreed.

I abuse the crap out of camp teleport.

That goblin you save from the cage even makes a point about it.

Remember BG 1 and 2, how camping had a risk of being attacked?

Depending where you were, a higher chance or lower chance?

Maybe the answer is this... lock the camp button in certain areas, and unlock it in other areas?

Like when in populated areas, you can't jsut teleport to camp, but in wilderness, you can.

Yeah, that's my idea - the "safe" zones I mentioned would be the ones where you are able to long rest. Though I'd still say camp shouldn't be stationary - so you'd set it up rather than travel to a fixed camp location.

In cities it would be even simpler - go to an inn or a friendly house.

I found this game great, but I also think it needs improvement about resting system.
At this moment one can go long rest after every battle, which make some spells like "Prayer Of Healing" quite useless.
I think it would be a nice idea if the game will check safety of the area and make you to roll dice before resting (1d20 for instance), and if you fail it will cause a problems like an ambush in a camp or something else. Furthermore, maybe some areas (caves, Underdark zones, instances e t.c.) should be even prohibited for resting.