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I like how resting works now. I don't want to miss companion interactions or have to double-back if I make a mistake. I also hate timed quests. For people who don't like unlimited rests, a good idea others have suggested is adding a challenge mode option in the settings (separate from difficulty) that limits the number of rests when it is selected.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by guy
Maybe the answer is this... lock the camp button in certain areas, and unlock it in other areas?

Yeah, that's my idea - the "safe" zones I mentioned would be the ones where you are able to long rest. Though I'd still say camp shouldn't be stationary - so you'd set it up rather than travel to a fixed camp location.

In cities it would be even simpler - go to an inn or a friendly house.
You just readed my mind (maybe tadpole did it lol)
I also think it would be a great idea to have an option in Baldur's Gate to pay for a room in an Inn and rest in a safe area plus get some buffs maybe, or to go outside the city and rest in a camp for free (maybe with some other secret features like dialogues, quests, cutscenes, scripts e t.c.)

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There are a lot of people who have made the point that if people don't like the unlimited long rests, then they should just self-police rather than complain to Larian and thus ruin a feature that other people enjoy for the way it makes things easier. Normally I agree that people shouldn't ask a game to punish or prohibit a behaviour they feel makes it too easy simply because they can't stop themselves from taking advantage of it, but I do feel it's different in this instance, because unlike something like save-scumming, the rest mechanic is integrated into the game in such a way that, if you don't know D&D then it makes the difficulty wildly variable and it messes with how a player thinks of the various classes. Plus, the game actively incentivizes long resting often enough to reduce the game's difficulty.

Many people have pointed out that classes and class resources are built around the rest mechanic. It's why wizards have powerful spells they can only use a limited number of times but warlocks have spells that are effectively unlimited and stronger abilities that replenish on short rests. If you're not familiar with D&D then you look at the classes and see that some classes have powerful abilities that can be used after a long rest, which is unlimited and gives you the chance to interact with your party and have cool story stuff potentially happen, after which you're fully healed. Meanwhile other classes have less impressive abilities that you can only replenish twice before you need to long rest again anyway. BG3 outright inverts the resting economy of the tabletop game without altering anything about the classes to match, and that seriously messes with class balance in a way that someone unfamiliar with D&D wouldn't realize. And I'm one of those people. I've played a handful of sessions of D&D and have never really dug into it very much. The mechanical stuff behind it is still largely a mystery to me. I only know as much as I do from these forums, so it's perfectly reasonable that a casual D&D fan will play this game and not know that there's anything substantially "wrong" with Larian's approach and won't know that the more balanced way to play involves holding off on resting.

And I want to touch on another matter. Save-scumming and other "cheese" tactics like that are fine in my book because while they're easier, the game doesn't incentivize it. They're a kind of way to brute force the game if you can't figure out any other way, and I think it's actually a good thing when games have that kind of valve for when trying stops becoming fun and just becomes an obligation. But in this case, long rests are just better and more fun in several ways than short rests, so players are encouraged to take long rests and engage with the story and companions more.

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I support not allowing long resting arbitrarily. It really dilutes the 5E action economy even further (it's already in a bad way) - why even have a short rest, as others have noted? I found perhaps one spot where I couldn't long rest. Part of a D&D game is managing class resources - and this is billed as a 5E D&D game. Resting is a fundamental part of this - and always has been in D&D. In Baldur's Gate1/2 you risked an ambush when resting (to repelenish spells, abilities, heal etc), unless you rested in very specific safe places. In Pillars of Eternity (not D&D, but mechanically similar in many aspects) you had to have supplies (which were limited) to rest. In Solasta (new 5E D&D game) you need rations and a fireplace (and you can still be surprised). In Pathfinder: Kingmaker (D&D) you need rations and a space for a camp - and you can still be surprised.
So: consequences.

I think the problem is that these concepts don't exist in DOS (where you could click on a bedroll in your inventory and get the 'rested' status - and your AP reset per encounter and you could guzzle source orbs, or teleport back to a source container to get all your source back...). That was how the game was designed, and I enjoyed it, but that is not D&D, and that lack of concern for resource management undermines the D&D aspect quite badly, for reasons many have pointed out. People who have not played D&D or who have but preferred DOS and want a game in the same vein, won't care about these issues at all. But they are immersion breaking for those who want a 5E experience, and will certainly reduce their enjoyment - and I'd wager there are quite a lot of those too.

The 'rest' camp reachable from anywhere - in the blink of an eye - hasn't been explained either. It could be explained (probably - some suggestions have been made that I could live with) , but at the moment it is very jarring and breaks immersion.

The excuse of requiring camp interactions (to explain why you can long rest whenever) doesn't hold up: other D&D games have had the same requiremenst for companions to unburden/tell their tale e.g PF:K, NWN etc), they all managed and kept track of time, without breaking the game system. I think as a first pass EA placeholder, while they are ironing out mechanics/class issues, it's OK - but I sincerely hope this is not what makes it into the final game. PF:K did a good job of allowing players to toggle on or off settings - including a core rules setting, but also allowing more nuanced choices for rules that some may/may not like. That might be a solution here, those who want the story interactions without the '5E rules' bother of managing resources could select options that suited their play-style.

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Personally I'm a big fan of the timed mechanics from older games and want to see those added back in. That'd balance rests in a way that feels natural and true to both BG and D&D. For those who don't like the pressure I could see a setting to make time advancement more controlled by the player, or give a much wider margin of error for time to advance.

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Adding this to hard (and more) mode. This will solve problems for everyone. I do not see the point of adding this to each mode, nonsense.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
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Im glad that im not the only one who thinks the current fast travel and long rest system takes away the resource management aspect of dnd and the challenge/excitement of the game and Im hoping that they at least give us alternative game modes in the final release. When we usually play dnd we are only able to long rest between 2-3 encounters so we have to carefully think ahead and plan with consumable items/spells/actions accordingly -which is kind of one of the best part of dnd for me. For a longer dungeon where party can short rest only we need to think twice how we prepare for the adventure, there is rarely any magic available to teleport us to safety and going ahead with that mindset is exciting for us.
For fast travel tbh i would be okay with the TW3-like system others already mentioned (but im happy to test any alternative to current one) regarding long rest/short rest im curious how they plan to solve the companion progress/resource management clash, there are a lot of ideas here on the forum so i hope they try out some and introduce alternatives during EA so we can test.

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+1 for not being able to long rest and instantly teleport back to camp at any time, especially from the middle of the Underdark. This is before you’re even high enough level to cast teleport. Truly immersion breaking (much as I’m starting to hate that word). Making it impossible to long rest from certain regions would make those areas far more interesting, short rests and other resources (spell slots, potions, scrolls) would become much more valuable and this would add a whole new tactical decision making dimension to the game.

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Unless there isn't some kind of restriction to use it, it makes absolutely no sense to hold on to it to even begin with. You could take the whole camp out of the game and let your party regenerate health and resources at the end of each fight automatically and it wouldn't change the current gameplay one bit. That's how meaningless the current resting system is. Party conversations could happen outside of camp just as well.
I can only assume that it's still a big work in progress and not even nearly there where the dev's want it to be, or otherwise they would have implemented the whole system without any gameplay mechanical justification to even be there in the first place.

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Originally Posted by marajango
Unless there isn't some kind of restriction to use it, it makes absolutely no sense to hold on to it to even begin with. You could take the whole camp out of the game and let your party regenerate health and resources at the end of each fight automatically and it wouldn't change the current gameplay one bit. That's how meaningless the current resting system is. Party conversations could happen outside of camp just as well.
I can only assume that it's still a big work in progress and not even nearly there where the dev's want it to be, or otherwise they would have implemented the whole system without any gameplay mechanical justification to even be there in the first place.


I remember earlier games where they used to do it this way; where you heal outside of battle. Not sure of the games off the top of my head though.

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I didn't realize it before but a lot of this is tied to Larian's engine unable to provide day/night cycles. You have no true concept of time or how much time has passed between things and it ruins the basis of this system a LOT.

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IMHO
* Make levelups available only during long rests. It will force a party of warriors to take more long rests.
* Make a way to restore all spells without taking a long rest. Mages should use their powerful spells, not just spam cantrips.

Ability to take a long rest from dangerous location is just a time-saver. Who wants to run across a huge empty level just to restore spells?

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My, I hope never for the 2nd idea ! :
It would be going against one of the most D&D basics...

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Originally Posted by Lunar Dante
It would be going against one of the most D&D basics...
D&d are for tabletop games, save and load are against d&d rules too )

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Adding this to hard (and more) mode. This will solve problems for everyone. I do not see the point of adding this to each mode, nonsense.

The point, is that the game (5e) is balanced around resources, which resting resets. If there is no risk to resting, if there is no condition around it (and the fact it takes you out of a dungeon to your camp is a joke, I assumed it was due to the Alpha state of the game) then you are not playing a game balanced as it should be.

This game is comically incomplete. This is just one more example.

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Originally Posted by Fl0
IMHO
* Make levelups available only during long rests. It will force a party of warriors to take more long rests.
* Make a way to restore all spells without taking a long rest. Mages should use their powerful spells, not just spam cantrips.

Ability to take a long rest from dangerous location is just a time-saver. Who wants to run across a huge empty level just to restore spells?

I like your first suggestion but I don't like the second. The reason wizards don't get all their spells back after short rests is game balance. Without it, there's no reason to bring fighters, rangers, rogues, warlocks, or even clerics or paladins. If wizards can nuke monsters in every encounter, you could just bring four of them and call it a day. Fighters and warlocks renew their abilities every short rest which allows them to compete with spellcasters.

You wouldn't have to run across the map. You could allow long rests anywhere but depending upon the location, you have a high risk of monsters disrupting your rest. Or you could travel to designated long rest areas which are safe. Or add the Leomund's Tiny Hut spell. There's a lot Larian can do.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Fl0
IMHO
* Make levelups available only during long rests. It will force a party of warriors to take more long rests.
* Make a way to restore all spells without taking a long rest. Mages should use their powerful spells, not just spam cantrips.

Ability to take a long rest from dangerous location is just a time-saver. Who wants to run across a huge empty level just to restore spells?

I like your first suggestion but I don't like the second. The reason wizards don't get all their spells back after short rests is game balance. Without it, there's no reason to bring fighters, rangers, rogues, warlocks, or even clerics or paladins. If wizards can nuke monsters in every encounter, you could just bring four of them and call it a day. Fighters and warlocks renew their abilities every short rest which allows them to compete with spellcasters.

You wouldn't have to run across the map. You could allow long rests anywhere but depending upon the location, you have a high risk of monsters disrupting your rest. Or you could travel to designated long rest areas which are safe. Or add the Leomund's Tiny Hut spell. There's a lot Larian can do.
+1 to the first suggestion. It would encourage players to visit camp at semi-regular intervals, addressing the problem where players can see camp dialogue/cutscenes out of order depending on how often they long rest.

-1 to the second suggestion for the same reasons as @spectralhunter. It does not need to be easier to restore spells.

I *would* like the ability to make camp in place instead of returning to a designated "camp area," but this would *need* to be balanced by some combination of time passing, resources required (e.g., rations), random encounters, etc.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
The reason wizards don't get all their spells back after short rests is game balance. Without it, there's no reason to bring fighters, rangers, rogues, warlocks, or even clerics or paladins. If wizards can nuke monsters in every encounter, you could just bring four of them and call it a day. Fighters and warlocks renew their abilities every short rest which allows them to compete with spellcasters.

(though I don't think wizards are overpowered even with every their spell ready)
OK, let's invent a reason to bring other classes in.

* Make a quick-menu option to change a character. Your mage is out of spells? Change him to ranger. A locked door ahead? It's time for your thief. A boss? Check his stats with a character with lore, bring a suitable characters to fight him.
* Make a reason to switch to other characters for non-casters. It can be fatigue, it can be encounters sequence where some characters will be more effective than other.
* When all characters is tired / without spells it's time to do a long rest. There can be something to prevent long rests when there are unused characters from last day.

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Originally Posted by Fl0
(though I don't think wizards are overpowered even with every their spell ready)
OK, let's invent a reason to bring other classes in.

* Make a quick-menu option to change a character. Your mage is out of spells? Change him to ranger. A locked door ahead? It's time for your thief. A boss? Check his stats with a character with lore, bring a suitable characters to fight him.
* Make a reason to switch to other characters for non-casters. It can be fatigue, it can be encounters sequence where some characters will be more effective than other.
* When all characters is tired / without spells it's time to do a long rest. There can be something to prevent long rests when there are unused characters from last day.

That’s because we are stuck at level 4. Wait till wizards can toss fireballs at will as you propose.

Or how about Larian tries to emulate 5e rules as much as possible since it’s pretty balanced instead of creating a whole new type of game?

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This is one area where looking to the preceding games for guidence is tough. Since the resting mechanic in BG1/2 was always designed to be exploited and the whole game was built on the idea of saving constantly, because you'd be reloading constantly.

There were a lot of time sinks that made minor things take moderatley longer than they needed to, if the player was willing to just reload until they got the desired result. But it was never very strict. Resting without being ambushed, writing magic from a scroll, hitpoints on level up etc. Even rolling ability points for the character intitally. Most things were eventually handled via a game setting, like rest until fully healed or whatever.

Then you also had other stuff like the spell Haste, which was supposed to take a year off your life according to the handbooks, but which in BG became just a convenient way to boost movement speed and gain way more attacks per round than anyone should sensibly deserve, whenever you wanted, with no real downside.

Main point being, that if they want to make such exploits harder for a more hardcore game sensibility, it should be handled in the settings and built up from the launch menu. The default setting/mode should assume that the single player will save and reload frequently unless it is wildly inconvenient to do so. They can artificially slow the pace of the gameplay by making resting more difficult, but then the game needs to be designed in such a way that most encounters don't require a fully rested/buffed out party to manage. BG1/2 weren't like that at all. Pretty much anywhere and anytime you could save, you could find a way to rest, and the game assumed that the player would cheese and meta exploit encounters by resting or reloading constantly. It worked on a certain level because you couldn't save in combat. So you'd end up with choices like "oh shit someone just died, do I want reload to refight the battle? or just deal with the inconvenience of carrying the body to a temple?" But not too much beyond that. Pretty much every boss fight you'd figure on having to run it a few times, otherwise it wasn't much of a fight.

It seems BG3 is even more flexible and forgiving with its approach to saving, since you can save at any point, even in the middle of combat and death is just a knock down here, since nobody gets chunked. The combats themselves aren't nearly as fast paced or quick draw, and the load times are way slower. So reloading a boss fight in this one I think comes off as more of a chore.

I think they could explore ways to make resting a more engaging part of the gameplay, but I dont know if they should look to BG2 or the infinity games for that, since those games were built around easy rest at the ground floor.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 18/01/21 11:08 PM.
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