Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2020
S
Sunfly Offline OP
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Pretty much what the title says. Gear that grants spells like the Shield of Faith sword are effectively slotless spells right now. Shields are similarly problematic since you can just put them on at the end of your turn and take them off at the start making them free ac.

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
Agreed, although I would go so far to say it should not be doable in combat with possible exceptions (exception maybe for shield and weapons, since I can reasonably see someone using an 'action' to change their loadout.) For things like armour though, seems like it should be a no go.


Anything you can do, a bard can do better.
Joined: Oct 2020
X
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
X
Joined: Oct 2020
+1

Baldur's Gate 2 used to block you from at least swapping armor IIRC.

Item interaction costs an action in 5E. You get one free per round, and sometimes they're free when they're part of an action (like drawing arrows from a quiver is part of the action to shoot a bow), but item swapping should cost actions. I assumed it did and never tried.

I also assumed food didn't heal and didn't eat any until I saw it mentioned here.

Joined: Oct 2020
M
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
M
Joined: Oct 2020
+1

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
+1

At least reduce it to one swap a round, using up your one item interaction. If you don't want to make it too complicated...

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
+1 This, it makes no sense to change gear with your party member during combat that cost no action....

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
I'd say swapping armor in particular shouldn't be possible at all, but hey, it's not exactly a common occurrence anyway.
Can't really go making a big deal of this.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Duchess of Gorgombert
Offline
Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Disagree as action points are so scarce, but I can see that doesn't seem to be a popular opinion...


J'aime le fromage.
Joined: Aug 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Some tax needs to be included to equipping during combat.

Now you can just attack with a bow or a two handed weapon and then equip a shield for the opponent's turn.

Armor needs to stay on in combat no matter what.

And the "magic pockets" need to go away. You can already throw items to one another, you don't need to be able to instantly teleport them.

The amount of cheesy tactics is overwhelming! It's like they are doing it on purpose.

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by vometia
Disagree as action points are so scarce, but I can see that doesn't seem to be a popular opinion...
I feel DND is an managing resources, especially during combat. In able to switch to two hander then change to shield on enemy turn with no cost diminished that.

Joined: Aug 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2020
If we want this to be DoS 3, keep the system as it is.

If you want to make a Baldur's Gate game, well, you can literally just look at what they did and see how it compares, and then look to the rules of 5e and see if they have an answer.
So:

Step 1 - In BG 1 and BG 2, you couldn't swap out armor pieces (main armor, boots, helmet, etc) once combat started. You could sorta swap your weapons, but it did take in-game time. That would mean your character is locked with whatever non-weapon gear they had equipped at the start of combat.

Step 2 - In 5e, it takes an Action to 'don or doff' a shield, aka it takes an Action to put on *or* to take off a shield. That means swapping between a 2-handed weapon and a sword and shield would take an Action to do. Additionally, pieces of armor have various times to 'don or doff' (PHB pg 146). Light Armor 1 minute to put on/1 minute to take off. Medium Armor 5 minutes to put on/1 minute to take off. Heavy Armor 10 minutes to put on/5 minutes to take off. This makes swapping your actual armor nearly impossible in-combat....unless you have armor specifically designed to do so. The rules for 5e have special magical armors that are nearly instantaneous to put on or to take off. For example, Xanathar's Guide to Everything has a Common magical armor called "Cast Off" armor that just takes an Action to take off.

So, homage to the BG series says no swapping armor in combat. The rules of 5e basically say you can't, unless you have armor specifically made to do so (such as a suit of magical armor).

This is a great example of where Larian is going to have to make some real decisions on what kind of game they want to make. Sticking closely to the rules is the easiest (and in my opinion the best) route because once you do that, the game will suddenly start feeling a whole lot more like a D&D based cRPG, rather than just another RPG in the DoS engine.

Joined: Oct 2020
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Oct 2020
I'd rather have it cost a bonus action.

Joined: Sep 2017
Location: CARDIFF
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: CARDIFF
Originally Posted by vometia
Disagree as action points are so scarce, but I can see that doesn't seem to be a popular opinion...



I agree with the OP but I know what you mean. I for one spam the shit out of being able to move things about the inventory(to my advantage). Also IIRC, there was a distance limit too for swapping items between characters.


Love and sausages xx
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
I think swapping between weapons should be allowed for free, but locked after you make an attack.

That would give you the option to assess your melee and range choices and then commit to one.

Granted there still going to be an inherent advantage that is given to casters. For example a Cleric can't have a shield and mace out and cast Sacred flame - for that they need to have a free hand.

But I think that that would be a reasonable compromise.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by vometia
Disagree as action points are so scarce, but I can see that doesn't seem to be a popular opinion...

To be fair this isn't really supposed to be a part of the "action economy" as much as a way to prevent exploits.
Characters simply aren't supposed to change what they are wearing in combat.

Just to be clear: ifwe are talking about going back and forth between you EQUIPPED ranged and melee weapons, on the other hand, I'm all AGAINST make it use an action.
I don't care if it's somewhat "realistic". It would be boring as hell to have your options limited in that sense.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Being able to freely trade items might be an EA thing they are testing out.
That said, if they add inventory lock during combat, people will just save scum even more than they are doing right now.
Oh, this cutscene triggers a fight. Reload and change gear.
Oh, there are three archers there who shoot flaming arrows at the explosive barrels? Reload and give everyone a potion of fire resistance.
It might give some players the illusion that they are locked out of some choices but in the end, we're back to BG2 where you scouted ahead. Died. Reloaded and then got the party ready with whatever they needed before you even turned the corner. Gorion's Ward was the textbook definition of the meme: I'm already four parallel universes ahead of you.

Last edited by Neleothesze; 17/10/20 11:49 AM.

-N
Joined: Oct 2020
T
stranger
Offline
stranger
T
Joined: Oct 2020
It should be as in D&D 5e: donning a shield should be an Action, drawing any weapon should be a free action, but switching weapons should be either a Bonus Action or also a free option but then you drop the weapon you already have in hand

Joined: Oct 2020
V
member
Offline
member
V
Joined: Oct 2020
Do you mean switching between melee and ranged weapons? Or actively going into inventar and changing from a 2H to a 1h+ shield? I think weapon sets (3 for fighters and rangers 2 for the other classes) should allow free swapping, but going into inventar to change stuff mid-fight, shouldnot work, especially armour. Swapping potions or consumables though, that should work freely. As of now the amount of resource management in this game is ridiculous, convoluted and difficult. More restrictions would not help at all. But neither should it be possible or desirable to constantly exploit the weak points of the game mechanics.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
Do you mean switching between melee and ranged weapons? Or actively going into inventar and changing from a 2H to a 1h+ shield? I think weapon sets (3 for fighters and rangers 2 for the other classes) should allow free swapping, but going into inventar to change stuff mid-fight, shouldnot work, especially armour. Swapping potions or consumables though, that should work freely. As of now the amount of resource management in this game is ridiculous, convoluted and difficult. More restrictions would not help at all. But neither should it be possible or desirable to constantly exploit the weak points of the game mechanics.

Yep, I'm with you. Exactly what I meant.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Oct 2020
C
CMF Offline
member
Offline
member
C
Joined: Oct 2020
I'm on the fence, leaning towards more restrictive, but not because it has to be like old BG 1&2 or D&D rules.

Currently you can make an attack, swap to dual wield, make an offhand attack, swap to a shield, end turn with highest AC possible.

Also, I can freely move and use items in other characters inventory.

My original thought was that action/bonus action's are too high a value, and having those be expended is too restrictive, so I considered having your movement bar be expended for making any inventory management changes.

Jostling around in a backpack instead of moving eats up time, which could have been used to run at the enemy. If we consider the movement action bar to be a "time before your turn is up" it helps a bit. You can only run x amount of meters per a second before the enemy can react (your turn is up).

So if you run up to an enemy, now you can swap gear anymore. If you swap gear and down an enemy, you can't run to the next to do an offhand attack with a bonus action.

Also putting a distance limit between swapping/using items between characters. I considered suggesting that "magic pocketing" count as a "throw" action, but that may be too restrictive.

A compromise between expending action/bonus action points and having free reign to cheese gear I feel is in the movement bar.

Last edited by CMF; 17/10/20 12:28 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5