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#703320 17/10/20 05:16 PM
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Temporary life skills are small individually and ok at low levels, but become pointless in higher encounters, especially if they do not stack.

Viable theory crafting would allow a combination of say: Darkone's Blessing (4-5 hp), False Life (5 hp), and Armor of Agathys (5 hp) (15 extra hp).

At level 2 this would put a 14 con/16 cha warlock at around 20hp with 15 temporary health just about doubling the hp and suddenly becomes a frontline character able to take multiple blows. This could be considered OP in the eyes of some, but consider the growth of that character.

At level 20 this would put a 14 con/18 cha (assuming they increase cha as they level) warlock around 200hp with 34 temporary health. Now this character can survive about 1 extra blow, giving a viable use to stack temporary hp in a pinch or survive focus fire from 2+ enemies for maybe a round or two.

I am not totally versed in table top d&d mechanics, and had to look up how the hp is provided per each level. If the numbers are off, please correct me.

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No. Absolutely not. Allowing temp HP to stack throws game balance out the window. Please, please, trust in the rules of 5e. It is probably the most balanced game rules ever designed. I can explain further if you want, but stacking Temp HP would trivialize the entire game, or force so many new balance changes that it wouldn't even be a D&D game anymore.

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Temp HP does not stack in 5e. If you get new temp HP from a skill/spell, you choose whether to keep your old temp HP or replace it with the new ones.

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Provide an example of game breaking balance if they stack please.

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Originally Posted by CMF
Provide an example of game breaking balance if they stack please.

Pact of the Fiend Warlock.. All the scrolls of Aid you can buy.. You could have infinite hit points

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Originally Posted by CMF
Provide an example of game breaking balance if they stack please.

Abjuration Wizards gain Temp hit points every time they cast an Abjuration spell.. Guess how many you can cast if you stay in the camp and sleep ever and over

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Originally Posted by CMF
Provide an example of game breaking balance if they stack please.


As a better phrasing that I should have used:

Why don't you trust the rules of 5e? Or why do you think you know game balance better than the rules that have been play tested for 6+ years?

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The 5e rules should be respected : they are not arbitrary. They are the result of countless years of game design and playtesting.

There exist ...
a) Temporary Hit Points. Ex.: Rally maneuver from the Battlemaster.
b) extra Hit Points which are not the same thing. Ex.: Aid spell.
c) some bonus damage soaking effects that are beyond the first two categories. Ex.: Arcane Ward from the Abjurer Wizard (that Larian butchered for some reason).

Though these categories never stack with themselves (eg.: you use the highest Temporary HP bonus you got), each separate category do add up side by side.

Example : you can have 8 HP from Rally (Temporary HP), +5 from Aid (extra) and an Arcane Ward (a shield with its own HP).

Last edited by Baraz; 17/10/20 06:00 PM.
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As I mentioned, would it be game breaking and make a single character into an unkillable solo machine by allowing temporary hp to stack? Assuming level 4 (max for this early access) Rally 12 (superiority die + cha mod of +4) + Aid 5 +Arcane Ward 12 (2x char level + int mod of +4) = 29 temp hp.

At level 20 that may be around 87 (depending on how aid works with the "every spell level past 2"). At level 20 most characters have around 200-230ish hp? How much damage do most encounters dish out per a turn? Would 87 temp hp make it where no one could get to the real hp?

My question is, does stacking make it so broken that the real hp pool never gets touched, or would stacking provide a buffer to survive 1 or 2 extra hits (if you have too many bad rolls in a row, this could save you from being downed, versus it doesn't matter if you have bad rolls, you will do more damage than they can do to you before your temp hp is gone)

I understand the want for this to be a purist version of 5e d&d or as close as possible to the game that a lot of you love bg1&2, but there are compromises being made already due to differences in table top versus computer game as well as ruleset changes over the years from bg1&2 and advancements in game development/technology. Also this is using larian's engine that already has deviations from the ruleset.

The original request was simply trying to create build diversity and interesting ways to play, but it is understandable if that build would be too OP as it grew, as I don't know all the sources of temp hp available and how they stack.

I, however, don't believe in not researching or trying new things because someone made a rule somewhere that said it always has to be done one way. Otherwise there is never room for growth and change and we will always have the same thing and same experiences over and over, but maybe thats what people want.

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A very simple example is using Armor of Agathys: Gain 5 temp hp and deal 5 cold damage to a creature while you have these temp HP. You deal damage when you take 1 or 2 hits, but after that your temp HP runs out.

If temp HP is allowed to stack, in your example you can have 29 temp HP. Thus you deal 5 cold damage when you're hit the first time...and the second...and the third...and the fourth...etc. It turns a simple 1st-level spell into a much more powerful version.

This is just one example. I'm sure there are many more examples that are even more game-breaking.

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No, it can be very OP with the proper builds.

Op stated 15 hp extra at level 1. Thats more then most if not all classes get at level 1. When they add barbarian, that extra 15 turns into 30 when they rage. How so because unless your casting spells it's only taking half damage. Same if you cast bladeward on the warlock with 15 extra hp, and with armor of Agathys he's getting hit taking half damage, and dealing damage. Then there are ways to build any character really. That just continues to increase that seeming tiny 15 extra hit points. Potions of resistance which do stack being another way to further turn that 15 into 30, then items that if you fail under x number of hp you heal on hit xdx. You now have someone who has 3x the number of hp as anyone else (maybe even bosses) is healing themselves on attacks, and bonus attacks, plus getting healed by cleric. Can very well with another potion get 2 attacks, or 3, or 4 per round.

With the number of booms, everyone having surface things, barrels, yada, yada it is thought provoking, but still no. maybe on another game not based on 5e. Or if they keep everyone having spells, areas of surface creating, hundreds of barrels per square inch. then I may change my mind.




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It never stacked in D&D (and neither pathfinder), and never should be.
Also as mentioned, there other ways to increase max HP: Increasing constitution (by leveling up, or magic items). Toughness feat. Hill dwarves (which stack with toughness). Spell effects like Aid. And of course picking class with higher hit dice, barbarian have highest.

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The abjuration temp hp stacking wouldn't be an issue as it could only allow unique sources of temp hp. so that would rewrite itself.
Armour of Agathys temp hp wouldn't be an issue either with unique sources as it would only last for it's OWN 5 hp of dmg and then go away until cast again.

Pretty much the answers provided are "it's always been done that way"

I am not looking to "just" simply have higher hp, but create a unique build with it's own flavor. If i just wanted more hp, yes then pick a warrior/barbarian/hill dwarf. But that misses the point of using unique and different skills in interesting ways to aggregate into useful interaction. If it was as simple as me saying "warlocks don't have enough hp" then I would say "give warlock more hp per a level"...but that is not the core goal of the suggestion.

Additionally the player would have to expend an action/bonus action or so to even receive these temp hp buffs, so at most maybe a precombat buff, and 2 mid combat buffs at the expense of not attacking. These would work like a survival moment to buy time to be supported by other characters. At the moment 5 hp is a shrug off.

Essentially arguing back and forth if it "should or shouldn't based on other games provides no feedback to developers so this isn't productive. Feedback on how this could be game breaking and definitely should not be introduced because you could reach 200 hp at level 1 or something like that, would be valuable.

I get it though, a lot of you are invested in d&d from years of interactions and have a strong affinity to it and bg 1&2 so it is difficult to not filter everything through those experiences.

Last edited by CMF; 18/10/20 03:20 AM.
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Originally Posted by CMF
Pretty much the answers provided are "it's always been done that way"

Yes our answers have been that, because that's what you asked:
Originally Posted by CMF
Provide an example of game breaking balance if they stack please.

and
Originally Posted by CMF
My question is, does stacking make it so broken that the real hp pool never gets touched

Now, if you want to ask the question "Could Larian change things to have multiple temp HP pools and have it work?" that's totally fine, and something that could be discussed. But it *is changing the goalpost.

The answer to that question is...maybe. A lot of people already take issues with how Larian has adapted 5e rules (some of these issues are just because we want it to be a faithful 5e adapatation, sure, but others definitely have a butterfly effect of consequences that people aren't happy with), so trusting them with another change is...eh. If temp HP from armor of agathys was allowed at the same time as other HP, but armor of agathys HP was always taken away first, then ehhhh okay fine. That's probably not too broken. The only real sources of temp HP are false life, armor of agathys, rally, and dark one's blessing. And only one of those would restore itself in battle.

But, as people have mentioned in this thread, you *can combine temp HP, HP max increase from aid, and the HP shield from arcane ward. You yourself gave an example of this in your 3rd post. If this is not how the game is implemented, Larian should fix it. BUT, now we have returned to the argument that things in the game should match 5e rules. You are unable to play this wizard who gets HP from rally, aid, and arcane ward because Larian did not correctly implement 5e. :P

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No I didn't ask if it's been that way, I asked if it would be op if they were allowed to stack. Then I asked for examples of how it could be over powered, while providing numbers to the best of my ability to show it is strong but I didn't think overpowered at low levels, but at higher levels it balanced out and was a utility tool but not exponentially overpowered.

The answer, thats the way we always do it is the worst answer because it has no value other than "someone told me so". no analysis of interactions or mechanics, just "it's that way because it's that way".

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Before my group understood the rule about not stacking temporary HP, my lvl 10ish warlock was in an area that was attacked by swarms of insects. But tons of insects - like no empty spaces in a square mile going 100 feet up. So I cast a fireball into the mass of bugs and, I don't remember the exact calculation we used to figure out how many swarms I killed with it, but Dark One's Blessing gave me several hundred temp HP. For one action and a spell slot.

Obviously that particular scenario isn't likely to come up in this game, but any combat where you can one-shot enemies with Eldritch Blast, for example, is going to get out of hand quickly. That's not counting any other potential sources of temp HP. There's no question that stacking temp HP can be overpowered.

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Originally Posted by CMF
No I didn't ask if it's been that way, I asked if it would be op if they were allowed to stack. Then I asked for examples of how it could be over powered, while providing numbers to the best of my ability to show it is strong but I didn't think overpowered at low levels, but at higher levels it balanced out and was a utility tool but not exponentially overpowered.

The answer, thats the way we always do it is the worst answer because it has no value other than "someone told me so". no analysis of interactions or mechanics, just "it's that way because it's that way".


I quoted other ways it's OP. I'll put them down in numerical oder.

1. With 15 hp at lvl 1 your twice as healthy as anyone else.

2. With rage that 15 hp effectively turns into 30, so now you have a level 1 barbarian with close to 50 hp. Rage halves all weapon damage, and at level 1 thats usually all your taking. Later it can do the same for pretty much all effects save psionics. I believe it's psionics/force maybe wrong but theres only 1 type of damage you wouldn't have with a barbarian.

3. Same goes for anything that has blade ward cast on it. effectively doubling your hp by taking only half damage.

4. Vampiric weapons or any weapon that gives you health on hit, fiend warlocks Dark ones blessing works as well. So you if you heal temp hp won't ever run out of those extra hp. Though don't think you can. So might be a mute point. Still we are in what if mode.

5. Taking potions of resistance has stacked with some other resistances, such as barbarians rage. So now the barb is taking 1/2 then halved again damage. If allowed to happen. So again his starting 30 hp is now up to 45 hp from temp alone. thats at level one. Later it gets worse with the increases to what is supplying you with temp HP.

6. So you can see where with anyone that multiclasses in barbarian turns into the Hulk/wolverine pretty much. Which causes every other class to simply be there. and people will multiclass into barbarian just to do that. Theres already people going ham on barrels, shoves, etc, and freely admit to it.

7. With simply a Barbarian their would be little worry about having to expand an action or bonus action. he's already doubled his temp hp by simply raging.

8. there are ways to do simillair to barbarian with the other classes as well. Not as bad but still in the end broken.

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I disagree with OP.
The others already said anything.

It's actually something very powerfull (hello warlock) and I can't see why it should be even more. Stick to D&D rules... Those are balanced more and more for about 50 years.

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Originally Posted by CMF
No I didn't ask if it's been that way, I asked if it would be op if they were allowed to stack.


Asked and answered at this point. That there are several concrete answers in under a page should be revealing to you.


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