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Originally Posted by Sven_
In an interview with Swen from last year he argued that you'd missed a lot in D&D, which according to him wouldn't be very fun in a video game.

Maybe reducing some of the AC whilst pumping HP to make up for that has been done with that in mind in parts too.


The issue is that it has been done inconsistently. Some HP and AC values are consistent with that from 5e, but not all. Enemy HP is up and AC is down, but spell damage for spells which are balanced based on enemy saving throws have not had their values adjusted, which makes them underwhelming compared to attack-roll spells (because saving throws are the same).

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
I seriously don't get it. 5e is already an edition with a lot of hp inflation and low lethality, mainly if compared to 2e. Why inflate enemy hit points even further? I saw an lv 4 spider in a cave with freaking 138 hp. Back on 2e times, Vecna, a Legendary demigod Lich had 150 hp. Demogorgon, one of the most legendary demon lords, had 200 hp. Myrkul avatar, 228. Goblins which you cold slay an entire army with an single fireball on previous BG, takes so much time to die. It is not fun or engaging, just boring.

138 hp is enough to soak 18 heavy crossbow bolts from a good(+3 dex/str) hunter. firing dozens of eldritch blasts, firebolts, arrow shots and polleaxes swings is not fun or engaging. Just tedious.

5e already has a lot of bloat. We don't need more hp bloat. Especially in a turn based game with slow animations and no option to use concurrent turns like ToEE had.


With all the advantages, and extra damage sources in the game. I'm still not having a problem killing the high HP mobs. Heck there is an amulet that doubles the damage of magic missile. Honestly even with the HP inflation, and going into fights in non strategic positions it's easy with optimal builds to ruin this game. I think it's because of all the liberties taken with the 5e combat system, and the insane items in the game. Currently my level 4 wizzard has 10 str, 14 dex, 16 stam, 18 int 14 wis 14 char. Combine that with 21 ac all self casted buffs, and a spell level 1 spell that does 6d4 +3 damage, or level 2 8d4 + 4 damage, and can't miss. I melt everything, and take very little damage. Not to mention I can heal, give my group +5 max hp permanent, and cast any spell I can find.

All in all I don't think the balance is there yet. Some things are really op. That not including exploits, or bugs in the game just optimal building for a wizzard.


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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem


Barrels, pure and simple. They expect you to cheese everything with exploding barrels so had to pump up the hit points.


I an playing a D&D game. I wanna lethal spells and weapons. Not lethal barrels.

If Larian homebew or someone mods a "create barrel" spell into the game, is would be the most OP spell in the game...

Originally Posted by Hachina

Yeah. Now that you mention Firkraag : he haste himself, stoneskin, has incredible ac and attack speed, incredible attack damage, a AoE that can one shot your weak party member, a buffet attack that knock out everyone around him and send your character rolling to the edge of the area. Not to mention his magic resist, backstab immunity, invisibility detection and a variety of spells.


And can die in two rounds to my necromancer. He is tough not cuz he has a lot of HP... I know cuz I soloed it as a necromancer some time ago.

[Linked Image]

By putting in a sequencer/contigency two lower resist + a greater malison, you can reduce up to 60% of enemy MR and make him deal a save vs spell at -8 penalty(-4 from malison + -2 from necromancer specialization + -2 from FoD spell itself), so, against Firkraag, the Red Dragon, the malison has a 95% chance of sticking. 65% chance of Firkraag failing his save against the FoD if the malison is on, 45% if it isn't. Combined, that's a 64% chance of failing his save. Then it's 95% to beat the remaining magic resistance with the FoD, for an overall 60.8% chance of the two-round kill. If you try to kill the same enemy using damaging spells, would take far more time on LoB with far less chance of success.

Originally Posted by Gonnar
You probably didn't notice, but the spider with 138, which I killed easily at level 3, will use the "blink" ability everytime to put herself atop a spider web.
If you burn/destroy that web, she falls prone and takes around 38 dmg everytime she does it.

So... easy peasy. Just gotta play smart and as it was said, use the terrain/elements. It died pretty fast after the third "blink" on a web


Yep... Gimmicky fights.

Cuz an spider failing from 5m takes more damage than being hit in the eye by a heavy crossbow bolt...



Yeah yeah... if you read my whole post, you would have understood that I was saying exactly the same thing. My warrior One shot firkraag with vorpal blade, can always find better way to cheese the game.


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note I'm still looking for a goblin with 50 hp. haven't found one yet are they in goblin camp? Even one with a higher hp then one of the ogres, seems to be goose chase, and I only chase owlbears!
I also only used witchbolt and the spider still went down like a hooker on a friday night.
So even with the ass ton of hp, she isn't well balanced, and needs something more. Yes she did drop 2 of my people with one shot, but they were lvl 3. Novices, Sharp Eyed, and Brawlers are all level three. Ragzlin is level 3 or 4, and Minthara is level 5. My party at level 3 had between 20 - 30 hp. Most goblins fell nearly in one hit by 3 out of 4 of my party. Cleric was used for melee, and healing. Used hex 2x once on Minthara, and Guts, because I find guts to be annoying with all the AC, mirror image, and things used on her.

Novice Greet = 10
Novice Sheek = 12
Dror Ragzlin = 50
novice muzul = 15
Sharp-eyed Azak = 13
Novice Mrak = 15
Brawler Gurd = 17
Sharp eyed Zami = 15
Novice Klak = 15
Priestess guts = 30 something her body is currently hidden
Zurga goblin boss = 25
Rozzack goblin boss = 24
Minthara lv 5 cleric = 57
Skurt goblin boss = 35
Sharp eye Neem = 15
SE Eef = 15
Brawler Gurd = 17
Novice Kagran = 6
Novice cry = 15
Novice husk 17
Novice Gnar = 12

Last edited by clavis; 18/10/20 04:01 PM.
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Sven_
In an interview with Swen from last year he argued that you'd missed a lot in D&D, which according to him wouldn't be very fun in a video game.

Maybe reducing some of the AC whilst pumping HP to make up for that has been done with that in mind in parts too.


The issue is that it has been done inconsistently. Some HP and AC values are consistent with that from 5e, but not all. Enemy HP is up and AC is down, but spell damage for spells which are balanced based on enemy saving throws have not had their values adjusted, which makes them underwhelming compared to attack-roll spells (because saving throws are the same).


Yep.

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It's fine that named goblins are the "tough" level 2 ones that stand out.

But where's all the fodder with 6hp? Make Shatter feel powerful.

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Yeah. Please no HP bloat across the board.

Stick the 5e Monster Manual Larian. Stick to 5e game mechanics.

Do this and you will win BG3 with your D&D and fans.




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Originally Posted by Goleeb
With all the advantages, and extra damage sources in the game. I'm still not having a problem killing the high HP mobs. Heck there is an amulet that doubles the damage of magic missile. Honestly even with the HP inflation, and going into fights in non strategic positions it's easy with optimal builds to ruin this game. I think it's because of all the liberties taken with the 5e combat system, and the insane items in the game. Currently my level 4 wizzard has 10 str, 14 dex, 16 stam, 18 int 14 wis 14 char. Combine that with 21 ac all self casted buffs, and a spell level 1 spell that does 6d4 +3 damage, or level 2 8d4 + 4 damage, and can't miss. I melt everything, and take very little damage. Not to mention I can heal, give my group +5 max hp permanent, and cast any spell I can find.

All in all I don't think the balance is there yet. Some things are really op. That not including exploits, or bugs in the game just optimal building for a wizzard.



The greatest problem is " I think it's because of all the liberties taken with the 5e combat system, and the insane items in the game."

The problem with this type of itemization is, what about classes who can't find those items?

And note that D&D is great cuz your power is in your char, not on stat stickie gear.

Originally Posted by Hachina

Yeah yeah... if you read my whole post, you would have understood that I was saying exactly the same thing. My warrior One shot firkraag with vorpal blade, can always find better way to cheese the game.


If you got a Vorpal sword on chapter 2, or you are extremely lucky or good. Either way, vorpal weapons can OHK powerful enemies. But deal with his ludicrous good AC, hit him and then trigger the vorpal effect is extremely unlikely...

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It's a Larian feature just like exploding everything.

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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
It's a Larian feature just like exploding everything.


Create barrel cantrip when?

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
It's a Larian feature just like exploding everything.


Create barrel cantrip when?


Soon enough my brethren, soon enough.

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
It's a Larian feature just like exploding everything.


Create barrel cantrip when?


looool. QFT.

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Just imagine

Cantrip = Create barrel
1 level spell = Create oil barrel
2 level spell = Create exploding barrel

Best spells ever.

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Hmm, isn't part of the reason that spider has lots of health because you can make it take about a third of its health in damage from destroying the webbing it's standing on and having it take fall damage?

When I fought ti with my friend, we made sure to do that and it went reasonably well. I assume if you were baller you could run onto the central webbing, making him come attack you there, slowfall yourself before destroying the webbing and get a full kill along with a casual fall into the underdark. (haven't tried that yet because my party was just a fighter and ranger on that run)

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Originally Posted by Xeiom
Hmm, isn't part of the reason that spider has lots of health because you can make it take about a third of its health in damage from destroying the webbing it's standing on and having it take fall damage?


Again, gimmicky boss and a spider taking more damage from failing from 5m than taking an heavy arbalest shot in the head makes zero sense...

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Goleeb
With all the advantages, and extra damage sources in the game. I'm still not having a problem killing the high HP mobs. Heck there is an amulet that doubles the damage of magic missile. Honestly even with the HP inflation, and going into fights in non strategic positions it's easy with optimal builds to ruin this game. I think it's because of all the liberties taken with the 5e combat system, and the insane items in the game. Currently my level 4 wizzard has 10 str, 14 dex, 16 stam, 18 int 14 wis 14 char. Combine that with 21 ac all self casted buffs, and a spell level 1 spell that does 6d4 +3 damage, or level 2 8d4 + 4 damage, and can't miss. I melt everything, and take very little damage. Not to mention I can heal, give my group +5 max hp permanent, and cast any spell I can find.

All in all I don't think the balance is there yet. Some things are really op. That not including exploits, or bugs in the game just optimal building for a wizzard.



The greatest problem is " I think it's because of all the liberties taken with the 5e combat system, and the insane items in the game."

The problem with this type of itemization is, what about classes who can't find those items?

And note that D&D is great cuz your power is in your char, not on stat stickie gear.

Originally Posted by Hachina

Yeah yeah... if you read my whole post, you would have understood that I was saying exactly the same thing. My warrior One shot firkraag with vorpal blade, can always find better way to cheese the game.


If you got a Vorpal sword on chapter 2, or you are extremely lucky or good. Either way, vorpal weapons can OHK powerful enemies. But deal with his ludicrous good AC, hit him and then trigger the vorpal effect is extremely unlikely...


Who said you had to fight him in chapter 2 ? and why are you trying to hard to compete on the best way to kill a boss in a 20 years old game?

Last edited by Hachina; 19/10/20 04:10 AM.

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Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Goleeb
With all the advantages, and extra damage sources in the game. I'm still not having a problem killing the high HP mobs. Heck there is an amulet that doubles the damage of magic missile. Honestly even with the HP inflation, and going into fights in non strategic positions it's easy with optimal builds to ruin this game. I think it's because of all the liberties taken with the 5e combat system, and the insane items in the game. Currently my level 4 wizzard has 10 str, 14 dex, 16 stam, 18 int 14 wis 14 char. Combine that with 21 ac all self casted buffs, and a spell level 1 spell that does 6d4 +3 damage, or level 2 8d4 + 4 damage, and can't miss. I melt everything, and take very little damage. Not to mention I can heal, give my group +5 max hp permanent, and cast any spell I can find.

All in all I don't think the balance is there yet. Some things are really op. That not including exploits, or bugs in the game just optimal building for a wizzard.



The greatest problem is " I think it's because of all the liberties taken with the 5e combat system, and the insane items in the game."

The problem with this type of itemization is, what about classes who can't find those items?

And note that D&D is great cuz your power is in your char, not on stat stickie gear.

Originally Posted by Hachina

Yeah yeah... if you read my whole post, you would have understood that I was saying exactly the same thing. My warrior One shot firkraag with vorpal blade, can always find better way to cheese the game.


If you got a Vorpal sword on chapter 2, or you are extremely lucky or good. Either way, vorpal weapons can OHK powerful enemies. But deal with his ludicrous good AC, hit him and then trigger the vorpal effect is extremely unlikely...


Who said you had to fight him in chapter 2 ? and why are you trying to hard to compete on the best way to kill a boss in a 20 years old game?


Because this 20 yo game is the best RPG ever made. BG3 is good? Yes. Is good as BG2? Nope. The unique aspect which seems superior to BG2 is enemy AI.

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
I seriously don't get it. 5e is already an edition with a lot of hp inflation and low lethality, mainly if compared to 2e. Why inflate enemy hit points even further? I saw an lv 4 spider in a cave with freaking 138 hp. Back on 2e times, Vecna, a Legendary demigod Lich had 150 hp. Demogorgon, one of the most legendary demon lords, had 200 hp. Myrkul avatar, 228. Goblins which you cold slay an entire army with an single fireball on previous BG, takes so much time to die. It is not fun or engaging, just boring.

138 hp is enough to soak 18 heavy crossbow bolts from a good(+3 dex/str) hunter. firing dozens of eldritch blasts, firebolts, arrow shots and polleaxes swings is not fun or engaging. Just tedious.

5e already has a lot of bloat. We don't need more hp bloat. Especially in a turn based game with slow animations and no option to use concurrent turns like ToEE had.



You call it bloat some enemies are "bloated" You mean their health is higher than the avg roll on their monster sheet? Take the owlbear, in game its 81 hp but lost a few points, Sheet says 7d10+21 for health and avg at 59, CR 3. If the DM rolled for health and or raised the health, would you even know? Or rather should you even know as a player?

Also keep in mind that most encounters don't last that long/dont have many enemies in 5e. What you should be worried about are the two 32 + unit encounters in BG3.

THE ONLY MONSTER, that i have encountered, THAT DOES NOT CONFORM TO THE HEALTH ON THE MM are the 2 SPECTATORS those are super bloated.

Also in the case of the goblins and other NPC humonids, it seems like larian decided to have them use hit die from their classes and levels. So really you are fighting things that have leveled.


Also phase spider matriarch:

This same boss you can actually deal 1/3 total hp per round as a caster/ranged? Roughly 46 hp per round until spider rages, then its about 2 rounds to put it down, without haste. Please understand that larian does reward you for resolving fights in abnormal ways. As do some DMs.

Had astarion sneak under the boss to break some eggs, boss aggroed and will shift on to webs in order to summon spiderlings. 2x Break the web with a fire arrow or fire bolt scroll and pass your stealth check. After the spider rages it will most likely make a straight line to GALE who could die in one round if at full health, but really not a problem for an abjurer wiz with mage armor on.


For those having issues, keep in mind that all classes are actually viable, their subs might be better than others however.


Evil playthrough ran:

Eldritch knight: 22 ac buffed (tyrs protection), relied on cantrips at range MM 1d4+1 x3 (9dmg avg)when needed, melee in short. Never died. (extremely reliable for choke points) Super tank. Can have 22ac with resistance to blud/slash/pierce. Most of the time was spent pushing foes around and grouping them up, as well as soaking all the hits and melee dmg 1d8+5 with poison 1d4 (11 avg dmg per round)(lets face it, even if she isnt an eldritch knight, she still will have 22 buffed ac)

Astarion thief: 16 ac, ranged when needed 1d8+5 plus 1d4 plus 2d6 sneak (avg 14 per roundish), melee when burst needed 1d6+5 1d4 2d6 (avg 13 ish) + bonus actions 1d4+5 1d4 x1 since 1 usually missed (avg 11 dmg) (soloed many encounters because sneak attack / stealth with poison op) If you are in a bind (wyvern poison can save the day at an extra 7d6 21 dmg avg) I also had him carry a Sussacc (magic drain flower)...what is more mage killing than no magic casting while a rogue smashing your backside in? Granted this only worked in certain areas and had minimal use haha.

Gale (alive and dead): 15 ac with mage armor: high damage dealer, spell of choice MM2 1d4+1 x 4 (12dmg avg), used fog cloud when gale surrounded, hardly died. Gale was sacrificed at certain choke points in 1st playthrough, since dead Gale is kinda OP. Do note that GALE CANT SEE TO SAVE HIS LIFE IN THE DARK and relying on dancing lights, light, or darkvision from a spell is okay at best. MM is pure gold because it hits 100% unless you are like me and forget to check if the path is obstructed.

PC Light cleric: 21 Ac buffed (absolute's protection) . Used a bonus action to cast heal once, maybe twice in the whole run. Healing as an action is a joke (in this game, not 5e lets get that straight), use items and food to heal then use your action to do some damage. Had decent dmg through longbow prof, BANE all day with casting and gloves of absolute. 1d8+4 (8 dmg avg) if not casting bane/FF or guiding bolt if comfortable.

This was a quicker and easier run through than my first. Do note that i used a good deal of items to speed things along after eveyrone ganged up on Zae. Nothing beats Caustic brine explosions if you want aoe dmg, until you get fireball that is.

Also keep mind that surface damage is a DEX savethrow. Your characters keep failing them, either cast Aid pre fight to mitigate, get higher dex, get prof, or endure them and give them a piece of their own medicine 10fold.



Honestly though, many some fights were already nerfed. (ahem hooked horrors)

Oh and who would have know most magic constructs dont work when magic is nullified? This is why items in game are ACTUALLY OP if you use them in certain ways.


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The HP creep has been across all editions of D&D and AD&D. In OD&D, fighting-men got d8 hit dice, same in "basic" D&D and AD&D 1e. In AD&D 2e, Warriors got d10 hit dice. In D&D 3e/3.5e fighters got d12 hit dice. In D&D 4e, they got 12 HP per level.

Weapons saw a similar power creep with the hardest hitting weapon in basic D&D doing 1d10 damage, in AD&D 2e it's 2d6 damage. In newer editions, weapons can go higher, sometimes much higher.

In AD&D 1e, the creature with the most hit points (In Deities and Demigods) had 400 HP. In D&D 4e, it was 1500 HP (Bahamut iirc).

There's also the difference in maximum level. Basic D&D had a max level of 36. AD&D 1e and 2e had a soft limit of 20 levels (though it was possible to keep going and one adventure was even published for level 100). D&D 3e had a limit of 20 levels unless you used the Epic Level Handbook, which extended it to 40 levels. D&D 4e had 30 levels. D&D 5e has dialed the level limit back down to 20 levels.

All that aside, there's also magic resistance in AD&D. Sure, in AD&D you could smack Asmodeus with a 20d6 fireball, but he had 95% magic resistance (so on a 94 or lower on d00, the spell failed). and even if you got past that, he was immune to fire, but assume you somehow negated that (dunno how, maybe with wish?), he was also immune to spells of lower than 5th level. He only needed 200 HP because your mage was 95% useless at that level. You also better have a good sword because most stuff is immune to non-magical weapons at high level.

You really can't compare game math across editions. It doesn't translate neatly. It's even less neat when trying to translate between the "classic" systems from TSR which were largely compatible and used similar math and the "modern" systems of WotC. They may as well be totally different games from a mechanical perspective.

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Again totally agree the HP bloat is too damn high..

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