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Orbax Offline OP
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Has anyone been able to justify the chance to hit on a 2H weapon versus 2 attempts at only slightly weaker weapons that both can be dipped into things? I love the 2H but thats a fast turn even if you do hit and the average damage per round is higher with dual wielding regardless of the two weapon fighting feat.


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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perks, and feats really is what it boils down to, that and cool factor.

or is it called Rule of Cool??? ugg newage terminology. just call a duck a duck, stop honey coating shit I still ain't eating it.

Last edited by clavis; 17/10/20 10:42 PM.
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Great Weapon Master alone makes dual wielding the worse option.

Guarantee +10 damage is just that strong in practice

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Originally Posted by Skaia
Great Weapon Master alone makes dual wielding the worse option.

Guarantee +10 damage is just that strong in practice


+10 is huge for sure, and I don't know if you can justify it any other way. I feel like in this if youre looking at their math and you have 50% hit chance a great axe 6(1d12) its 3 DPR. If you are dual wielding Dragons Grasp 3(1d6) + 2(1d4) and a scimitar 3(1d6) youre doing 4 DPR. and when you add in both weapons getting dipped or on fire it almost doubles the damage output of a 2H. For as many 2H as they put in the game, great weapon master seems a very specific choice for the the scope of classes and feats you can do to make them worthwhile.


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Dual wield do more reliable damage but actually cost both action+bonus.
2H weapons look to be dippable as well iirc ?

I'm also not sure that off-hand wepon will stay like this (it is meant to not have bonus to hit or damage without feat), so probably will be, on average, less efficient per action.

Heavy 2H weaponry on a fighter taking the great weapon mastery can deal far more damage per hit but need advantage to be reliable (and a blessing too).

But with proper feats/spells/classes (mark of the hunter, hex, sneak attack for instance), hitting two times may be far more efficient since bonuses are added for each roll (and have chance to both crit, multiplying all added bonus dice).


With no special abilities to those, you'll have either :
- shortsword (1d6) + dagger (1d4) + 1x proficiency + 2d4 fire (if dipped) = 4-18 dmg + modifier if both attacks hit.
- Greatsword (2d6) + 1x proficiency to rolls + 1d4 fire (if dipped) = 3-16 dmg + modifier with one attack to land.

With one dice bonus (sneak attack of mark of the hunter) :
- shortsword (1d6) + dagger (1d4) + 1x proficiency + 2d4 fire (if dipped) + 1d6/attack = 6-30 dmg + modifier if both attacks hit.
- Greatsword (2d6) + 1x proficiency to rolls + 1d4 fire (if dipped) + 1d6 = 4-22 dmg + modifier with one attack to land.

With Dual Wield feat / Great Weapon Mastery :
- shortsword (1d6) + dagger (1d4) + 2x proficiency + 2d4 fire (if dipped) = 4-18 dmg + 2x modifiers if both attacks hit.
- Greatsword (2d6) + 1x proficiency to rolls + 1d4 fire (if dipped) + 10 = 13-26 dmg + modifier with one attack to land, but with a -5 to hit.


It more of a matter of playstyle and feats available to your class than one fighting style being superior to another.
Dual-wielding makes you more polyvalent since you can split damage on two targets

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Orbax Offline OP
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Originally Posted by FenrisC

With no special abilities to those, you'll have either :
- shortsword (1d6) + dagger (1d4) + 1x proficiency + 2d4 fire (if dipped) = 4-18 dmg + modifier if both attacks hit.
- Greatsword (2d6) + 1x proficiency to rolls + 1d4 fire (if dipped) = 3-16 dmg + modifier with one attack to land.

With one dice bonus (sneak attack of mark of the hunter) :
- shortsword (1d6) + dagger (1d4) + 1x proficiency + 2d4 fire (if dipped) + 1d6/attack = 6-30 dmg + modifier if both attacks hit.
- Greatsword (2d6) + 1x proficiency to rolls + 1d4 fire (if dipped) + 1d6 = 4-22 dmg + modifier with one attack to land.

With Dual Wield feat / Great Weapon Mastery :
- shortsword (1d6) + dagger (1d4) + 2x proficiency + 2d4 fire (if dipped) = 4-18 dmg + 2x modifiers if both attacks hit.
- Greatsword (2d6) + 1x proficiency to rolls + 1d4 fire (if dipped) + 10 = 13-26 dmg + modifier with one attack to land, but with a -5 to hit.


It more of a matter of playstyle and feats available to your class than one fighting style being superior to another.
Dual-wielding makes you more polyvalent since you can split damage on two targets


Nice analysis! I think what is tilting it is how many effects you can stack into weapons and attacks. gloves that bane people, first blood weapon, dips, hexes, etc ...just by virtue of HITTING you are doing way more damage and crowd control than youd ever do in D&D. Since they have the damage flipped in this where mods go into damage on the offhand, its really potent and seems to be the general rule unless you find something specific to increase hit rate and what youre delivering.


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1 handed weapons 2 attacks 1 is with your off hand so the more extra attacks you get the more the 2 hander is impacted it prolonged combat dw will producer more net damage at low levels but raw weapon to weapon 2 hander hits harder. You wont notice it till level 5 when you get a 2nd base line attack even then its still pretty close but come level 11 the 2 hander starts to be more favored. Its actually a grievance a lot of dw players have with 5e is at high levels dw does not scale well. Extra attack does not apply to dwing.

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With Dw your still getting one more attack for the most part straight through levels. Until someone starts getting 3 attacks, yet still if your DW'ing it up with say a fighter. You'll still get 3 primary attacks, and one from your bonus action.

Now DW can actually hurt most subclasses, especially those that use their bonus actions for other things. Where as 2h you can use that bonus action as you need it, and at times it's far more effecient to use your bonus action for a subclass skill, then to use it to attack.

Over all it depends upon your build, do you want to do an attack, or do you want to use your bonus action.

i'm not going to analyze it all in depth, means I'd have to pick up a book, which is upstairs.

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Presently they aren't mutually exclusive, you can attack with your 2h weapon, then switch to dual weilding and attack with your offhand.

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Orbax Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Muldeh
Presently they aren't mutually exclusive, you can attack with your 2h weapon, then switch to dual weilding and attack with your offhand.


Oh wow, I forgot about the weapon swap on turns. Thats really broken haha


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Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Muldeh
Presently they aren't mutually exclusive, you can attack with your 2h weapon, then switch to dual weilding and attack with your offhand.


Oh wow, I forgot about the weapon swap on turns. Thats really broken haha

wtf... so broke....

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that will most likely get patched out and be made where changing gear requires a bonus action to perform. Early access issue most likely just overlooked.

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Originally Posted by clavis
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Muldeh
Presently they aren't mutually exclusive, you can attack with your 2h weapon, then switch to dual weilding and attack with your offhand.


Oh wow, I forgot about the weapon swap on turns. Thats really broken haha

wtf... so broke....

You forgot to switch to a Shield after the attacks so you have +2AC.

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Dang it he's right!!! now I have to go back and get a shield!! blast it all!

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Originally Posted by Orbax
Has anyone been able to justify the chance to hit on a 2H weapon versus 2 attempts at only slightly weaker weapons that both can be dipped into things? I love the 2H but thats a fast turn even if you do hit and the average damage per round is higher with dual wielding regardless of the two weapon fighting feat.


Great Weapon Fighting and Great Weapon Master makes 2H weapon a lot more interesting.
1s and 2s will be rerolled on dmg die making it more likely to do more dmg, especially when using a Great sword or Maul (2d6).
I haven't checked for Great Weapon Master yet, but if it's included or will be later, you can add a flat +10 dmg to hits while taking a -5 to hit rolls and getting a full additional attack when delivering a killing blow.

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I mean can anyone justify how sticking your sword in a torch lights it on fire?

Dipping is a silly mechanic that should only apply to magical oils designed to stick to your weapon

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Originally Posted by override367
I mean can anyone justify how sticking your sword in a torch lights it on fire?

Dipping is a silly mechanic that should only apply to magical oils designed to stick to your weapon


Yeah the way the fights tend to suddenly erupt combined with the environment go to hell I feel Dip replaced Coat due to, during the FIRST time in a battle, the complete lack of awareness that a fight is about to happen and what its nature will be.

Dip!™ - When someone accuses of you being a liar out of nowhere and lights your pants on fire, use Dip! to stuff your on-fire pants down their throat!


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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okay i really need to wake up before reading posts..... I'm never going to get that image out of my head.

I feel the same way about dip, honestly I don't feel strongly one way or the other about it. This coming from a person that 'dips' in real life. It needs work do to it's heavy synergy with the current oversurfacing..... ugg still in my head.



Last edited by clavis; 18/10/20 04:10 PM.

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