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Originally Posted by Postwave
I agree with you on most points, except I love the setpiece battles. I think there should be more some smaller encounters between them, but in general, very fun.


The issue is they need to be better thought out.

In my evil playthrough, when I raid the grove, Rath is still alive back at the inner sanctum entrance so I need to spend many rounds where I have to just use dash to get to him.

In the harpy battle, similar thing. Last harpy flew to other side of the map so spent 5-6 rounds just moving my team around.

There a point where the battle is over. When it's 4 to 1 in my favor and there no way I could lose, don't force me to spend like 15 minutes mindlessly having me move my people to finish off the last mob.

Last edited by Merry Mayhem; 18/10/20 09:35 PM.
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I'm inclined to agree with quite a bit of this but I want to personally expand further on the issue with combat. That's where I'm really REALLY struggling with during this. I haven't beaten Act 1 yet due to this. Hell, I haven't hit level 4 on either of my playthroughs (had to junk one due to a major bug but that's already been posted).

Combat runs by 5e rules, but the encounters are not set up for proper 5e balance.

At low levels (See all of Act 1) the player characters do not have the tools to handle being outnumbered in any degree. This makes the goblin encounters a situation of "Either cheese this fight to be straight up gouda, or it's a thresher". Seven enemies, same level, starting at ideal positions for their jobs in a fight? And there's no way to talk your way through the encounter? The way the game kinda nudges you to encounter goblins for the first time on your own, you're probably going to get absolutely decimated. The windmill fight is going to make you tear your hair out because goblins being reinforced by clerics is just asking for someone to throw their monitor.
My suggestion would be to either lower the headcount, change the scaling formula so that monsters framed as "weak" such as Goblins don't reach same level with the players, maybe PlayerLevel Minus 1 or 2. Their overwhelming numbers are supposed to be the scary part, not the fact that they're overwhelming you, have more abilities than you, and are surface-weavers. They're Goblins. They're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Surfaces-
Firebolt. This spell is stronger than nearly anything else in my armaments for Wade. Ray of Frost? Pfft. Shocking Grasp? He's a mage, that's just not going to land, ever. Firebolt? Guaranteed damage. I hit? 1d6 fire. I miss? 1d4 fire from setting the target ablaze and them standing in fire. Their turn starts? Chance for 1d4 fire because they start in fire. Everything lands? Minimum 3 fire damage after everything goes, up to about 14 fire damage if the target is having a particularly bad time. As a CANTRIP and it can detonate things.
I want to iterate here that if my damage numbers are wrong for starting in fire and being on fire, and they're too LOW, then that makes what I'm saying an even WORSE problem.
This makes me want to ask the dev team "Are you making Divinity D20 or are you making a Dungeons and Dragons game?" I know surfaces are a huge thing with Larian titles, but it's heavily incompatible with how you're presenting the rest of combat.

This turned into a big rant post, I'm aware, but I do hope these issues are seen and worked on. Hell, some acknowledgement from the devs about Firebolt needing to be looked at would be nice.

Last edited by Krall; 18/10/20 09:43 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Originally Posted by Zress
Same goes for that stupid tiefling with the crossbow, she want you to do something for her but in the process of giving you the quest she curses you so many time and act like she can take the whole party that I just Eldrich Blasted her stupid face to oblivion.

Well in her case it's understandable, given what she's been through presumely a few minutes or hours before you arrived, I actually liked her..

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Originally Posted by Krall
I'm inclined to agree with quite a bit of this but I want to personally expand further on the issue with combat. That's where I'm really REALLY struggling with during this. I haven't beaten Act 1 yet due to this. Hell, I haven't hit level 4 on either of my playthroughs (had to junk one due to a major bug but that's already been posted).

Combat runs by 5e rules, but the encounters are not set up for proper 5e balance.

At low levels (See all of Act 1) the player characters do not have the tools to handle being outnumbered in any degree. This makes the goblin encounters a situation of "Either cheese this fight to be straight up gouda, or it's a thresher". Seven enemies, same level, starting at ideal positions for their jobs in a fight? And there's no way to talk your way through the encounter? The way the game kinda nudges you to encounter goblins for the first time on your own, you're probably going to get absolutely decimated. The windmill fight is going to make you tear your hair out because goblins being reinforced by clerics is just asking for someone to throw their monitor.
My suggestion would be to either lower the headcount, change the scaling formula so that monsters framed as "weak" such as Goblins don't reach same level with the players, maybe PlayerLevel Minus 1 or 2. Their overwhelming numbers are supposed to be the scary part, not the fact that they're overwhelming you, have more abilities than you, and are surface-weavers. They're Goblins. They're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Surfaces-
Firebolt. This spell is stronger than nearly anything else in my armaments for Wade. Ray of Frost? Pfft. Shocking Grasp? He's a mage, that's just not going to land, ever. Firebolt? Guaranteed damage. I hit? 1d6 fire. I miss? 1d4 fire from setting the target ablaze and them standing in fire. Their turn starts? Chance for 1d4 fire because they start in fire. Everything lands? Minimum 3 fire damage after everything goes, up to about 14 fire damage if the target is having a particularly bad time. As a CANTRIP and it can detonate things.
I want to iterate here that if my damage numbers are wrong for starting in fire and being on fire, and they're too LOW, then that makes what I'm saying an even WORSE problem.
This makes me want to ask the dev team "Are you making Divinity D20 or are you making a Dungeons and Dragons game?" I know surfaces are a huge thing with Larian titles, but it's heavily incompatible with how you're presenting the rest of combat.

This turned into a big rant post, I'm aware, but I do hope these issues are seen and worked on. Hell, some acknowledgement from the devs about Firebolt needing to be looked at would be nice.



I disagree. The game is not hard by any means. The hardest thing is the lag.

The first goblin fight at the village : Just sneak in, go on the top part of the house and kill the gobelin from hight ground, then decimate the survivor.

Windmill: You just have to nearly kill the boss for the fight to end. Granted, this should be easier to do, and maybe one character should shoot ''focus the boss'' to help you understand that, but once you know it, its a one round or two round fight.

Fortress fight : these are only problematic because of the lag and the boredom of waiting enemy turn.

This game is also about knowing the rules, exploiting your tool and the environment. Push goblin off ledge. use spell appropriatly. Use consummable and potion. Sneak in to get better positionning. Take the hight ground. Larian give you so many options to win, you need to use them.

Last edited by Hachina; 18/10/20 09:50 PM.

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I understand some of the points of OP but disagree with him on lots of others

Agree:
-Enemy stats not matching 5e MM (as well as abilities)
-Loot does seem to be lackluster in this game, but that is also the case in 5e D&D-- most WoTC officially licensed campaigns only have a handful of magic items in them.

Disagree (and why):
-NPCs hating you - i haven't really run across this, I'm about 30 hours into the EA (2 characters with different choices) and it doesn't really seem like this to me.
-Surfaces - this is a big gripe a lot of people have, but you have to understand the foundation the game is coming from-- this not JUST a D&D game, but a hybrid of D&D and Larian Studio's RPG gaming style. I personally like it as it adds tactical elements to the fights instead of just back and forth wailing on one another. You have to be smart and position well, if you die you reload and change tactics.
-Set pieces-- not sure what you mean by this, I've gone into combats where there were cutscenes but still able to set my guys up as i needed them. Even the example you provided, Goblins at the Druid Grove Gate, if you approach from one side you can get the high ground and the battle flows very differently. The Cutscenes don't place you in a specific spot.
-Picking on backline/downed-- umm thats good AI-- maybe try an easier difficulty?

Originally Posted by Grimo
As a long time DM, this game makes me furious. Not because I don't like a good challenge, but because it feels like the game is actively being inconsistent with 5e rules, punishing players and all-in-all making an environment hostile to players, especially those who want to play a heroic character.

- every. damn. NPC. hates you. Why? Why does this have to be so damn oppressive? Where is the levity, the gratitude, the derring-do? Why is everyone such a dick? It doesn't make me want to solve quests because the people who give them to me are such c- well, you know.
- goblins have triple their MM health, loads of alchemists fire. It feels like the DM is cheating for no good reason.
- surfaces. surfaces everywhere. go away.
- the game wastes my time with big 'set piece' battles like the one at the gates of the druid grove. Lots of NPCs fighting lots of NPCs. I can't ambush or anything because a cutscene forces me into combat so far away from the action I spend most moves running. Just use a cutscene, please.
- most fights are so difficult that you need party optimisation, which means you'll need to be a cleric or have shadowheart and that's that.
- picking on low-armor backline targets or knocked out ones. Seriously, I get that in real life monsters will probably do this, but in gameplay the reality is people are going to just give up trying to have low armored casters in their party at all.
- and after all this, theres... nothing. no loot. no helpful items. everything seems empty.

This game has great potential but right now it feels like it is a great adventure in the hands of a shitty neckbeard DM who hates you.




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Originally Posted by KingTiki
Quote

[quote]- the game wastes my time with big 'set piece' battles like the one at the gates of the druid grove. Lots of NPCs fighting lots of NPCs. I can't ambush or anything because a cutscene forces me into combat so far away from the action I spend most moves running. Just use a cutscene, please.


This is the one thing you cannot go around, and this is fine to me. All the other battles are not forced in a certain way.


Everyone is talking about this massive battle, am I the only one who missed it? Maybe because I stealthy assassinate all the absolute leader as Halsin asked me?

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Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
Originally Posted by Raflamir
An Eder-type companion would be great. He was so un-special and it was nice.


Yeah he was special in being so aggressively normal, something this game really lacks. Apart from the PC, who seems remarkably shallow compared to each and every companion who could rightfully be the protagonist of his own game.


But this is a Larian game, if you are not playing an Origin Character, you are playing the game wrong. You would think having a custom character name show up as Tav would tell you everything Larian wants you to know about your character. The PC is not the hero of this story, we are the sidekick unless your choose to be a protagonists, i.e. an Origin Character.

This is so easy to dispute it is comical.

If we are the sidekick why do we make all the choices and get to close out the game as the main character? Why do we get to choose who gets to come along for the ride? Please explain this to me in detail because you seem privy to information I am not. Furthermore, why give you the option in the first place but not give you the option to play the main character as well? It would make no difference whatsoever as companions taking over dialogues is already a prevalent feature in the game that affects the main story arc constantly and consistently. The feature to watch the conversation play out and also get to read it and voice your opinions also already exists and is used for the entire game in DivOS2 coop.

Now to address the portion that is downright inconsiderate. We are playing wrong? Why does Larian not release a statement to that effect then? They have made statements solidifying their position in many other controversial regards so why not this one? If you have some sort of back channel access directly to the writers and developers could you please let us know and source a comment to this effect for us or ask your friends to release a statement to this regard as this would let us know that we are wasting our time and money in more way than one and should seek restitution. If you are an employee of Larian please make this statement with some official media tied to your actual person so that it may acquire some validity please and thank you. Would you also please explain to us why we paid full price for early access intended to source feedback but are not allowed to voice our opinions, criticism and feedback?


Last edited by Argonaut; 18/10/20 10:14 PM.

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SPOILERS BTW

First thank you for being a DM, it's not the easiest job.

so...


Originally Posted by Grimo

- every. damn. NPC. hates you. Why? Why does this have to be so damn oppressive? Where is the levity, the gratitude, the derring-do? Why is everyone such a dick?


I don't know, maybe it's the worm in your eye, the goblins wanting to wipe out the druids, the shadowdruids, a hag (Auntie ethel was actually damn hilarious) , souls being ransomed by zariel, the absolute wanting you dead, back stabbing goblins and drow, Gith with a stick up his ass, Scratch sitting next to his dead master, and the owlbear cub whos mother you probably killed that makes this game so dickish?

That aside there are plenty of things that are light-hearted. You can spam pet scratch the dog because he is such a good boy, you can play fetch with him too, Volo...who uses an ice pick to try and get the worm out of your eye...hint: he fails, "chasing the chicken" in the goblin camp (though its kinda sad but you can save the cub anyway) Auntie ethel's comments and tone (obvious hag from day 1) but still fun to listen to...Petal, the softcore porn scene with a certain drow, The urchin tiefling kids who steal, scam you, listening to shadowheart's sarcastic comments as you get beaten by a sadomasochist, the deep gnome on the windmill, the bear's looks of concern while talking to Volo, The swamp's "sheep" Baaaaa,

Quote
goblins have triple their MM health, loads of alchemists fire. It feels like the DM is cheating for no good reason.


1 fight was CR 18 v party of 4. Sure feels like it, but every combat can be beaten without a cleric healing.

Quote
- surfaces. surfaces everywhere. go away.


More things to look out for, more tactical possibilities, more oh shit moments when you realize poison spores blow up too. As a 5e and DoS2 player surfaces don't bother me since through 5e I've learned to think creatively. Though i will say that certain surfaces will 1 shot encounters.

Quote
- the game wastes my time with big 'set piece' battles like the one at the gates of the druid grove. Lots of NPCs fighting lots of NPCs. I can't ambush or anything because a cutscene forces me into combat so far away from the action I spend most moves running. Just use a cutscene, please.


I see your point, and it would be nice to ambush anything at any time.


Quote
- most fights are so difficult that you need party optimisation, which means you'll need to be a cleric or have shadowheart and that's that.


No, I ran a "no healing" cleric for my evil campaign and it was easier than the first (used healing word once to keep an NPC alive. I used tons of healing items sure (gale) but i rarely used shadowheart at all. My 1st playthrough party was PC lock without knockback, Necrosis gale, trickster Astarion, eldritch knight zae (who was shadowheart until lvl 3). AI targets gale first, great, no problem, let him die and necrosis everyone to death while you choke point them all. (a few encounters were nerfed btw). 2nd playthrough was PC non heals light cleric, gale, elritch zae, theif astarion, this one was FAR more effective at survival than the first party. Cleric ac 19 (21 when buffed), Zae ac 20 (22 when buffed), astarion ac 17 with poison on at all times, Gale (abjuration) ac 16 i think. You don't need an optimized party, you just need to be smart about how you go about each encounter, AND USE POTIONS/FOOD as a bonus action and not waste your action on a heal. Which is a pretty big difference coming from 5e.

Quote
- picking on low-armor backline targets or knocked out ones. Seriously, I get that in real life monsters will probably do this, but in gameplay the reality is people are going to just give up trying to have low armored casters in their party at all.

Actually, gale is one of my stronger characters when he is alive AND dead. If they want gale so badly, give him to them and let them suffer for it. I actually had a fight where the 2 minotaurs knocked astarion off a cliff and they jumped down to pummel him into vampire dust. It was absolutely hillarious and actually made my fight easier to handle.

Quote
- and after all this, theres... nothing. no loot. no helpful items. everything seems empty.

Not every combat needs to drop something good (hook horrors,minotaurs,bulette, and two spectator fights) for example.


Quote
This game has great potential but right now it feels like it is a great adventure in the hands of a shitty neckbeard DM who hates you.

I actually felt like Larian was a DM who was constantly trying to goad me into making the "wrong choice" just to see what would happen. Break the mirror sure, i like liches? sure!, make a deal with a hag? sure, have volo take out your eye with an ice pick? sure! WHO WOULDNT DO ALL OF THESE!?





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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Originally Posted by Pupito
Originally Posted by Sunfly
I don't understand the point about needing a Cleric, is it something specific?


They're the healer class for the most part, they can excel in other area as well but they make the best healers above other classes, so with the way combat flows right now with explosive barrels, special arrows, ground effects, insane triple attacks and things like that you often need a lot of healing during combat and are therefore almost forced into having a cleric in the party.


But there's food and potions everywhere that don't consume spellslots. If anything Cleric feels like dead weight to me, I usually just have Shadowheart stay at camp while Lae'zel, Astarion, and Wyll do the next lifting.

The fact that one of the most central classes and one of the major classes of the game feels like dead weight doesn't bother you? I would consider that a red flag that needs immediate attention.


Originally Posted by Xantyr
Some strong opinions in this topic.

Remind yourselves, this is Early Access. We are all playing a custom made character. The companions in your party are the - as for now, unplayable - Origin characters with a full-fledged built-in storyline. Hence, your custom made character will indeed feel more bland than that of your party mates. Your custom made character will be calling all the shots , though.


Have you considered that I don't want to play someone else's story? That I don't want to play Larians vision of the Hero's Journey but my version of the hero's journey? What reason would there be for this option to not be available to me if not the main focus of the game? If I make a custom character I am making that character to go on an adventure and it's my adventure. I want to be the hero. I don't think that is an unreasonable or big ask especially because it IS early access and now is the time where they can change it without having to retcon later.


If you had actually read my chain instead of arguing for the sake of arguing you'd realize that your question was irrelevant to the context of my post.

Last edited by Sunfly; 18/10/20 10:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
I agree about the companions. They're all so special it's getting annoying.

I just want an ordinary hero at this point. An Eder, Jaheira or Branwen. Ajantis, Keldorn, a boring predictable knight type. A light-hearted rogue like Coran.

Not everyone needs to be undead, alien, devil-spawn or have dark secrets (that are painfully obvious). It gets old. If everyone is extra special, no one is.

The mysterious hooded undead you encounter early in the game is another good example of how special falls flat. I thought he was a really cool and mysterious character. I was intrigued. Until he showed up at camp and turned into a vendor.



THIS, THIS, THIS. I thought the undead guy was SO fucking cool until he just shows up.... to be at your camp... as a vendor.....

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The core of both the BG series and D&D is that the character is yours. If Larian "designed" the game to be played with pregens as only true option than this game deserves to fail as it has missed the point.

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Originally Posted by Sunfly

If you had actually read my chain instead of arguing for the sake of arguing you'd realize that your question was irrelevant to the context of my post.

I understood your point perfectly.
I then proceeded to challenge it using simple reasoning.

If you believe otherwise I welcome the explanation.

Last edited by Argonaut; 18/10/20 11:07 PM.

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Originally Posted by Argonaut

Have you considered that I don't want to play someone else's story? That I don't want to play Larians vision of the Hero's Journey but my version of the hero's journey? What reason would there be for this option to not be available to me if not the main focus of the game? If I make a custom character I am making that character to go on an adventure and it's my adventure. I want to be the hero. I don't think that is an unreasonable or big ask especially because it IS early access and now is the time where they can change it without having to retcon later.


I mean, they DO offer that. That is what the custom character is. They aren't going to remove the origin characters' stories just because you want to play El Generico and not have anyone interesting in the part. If they had a pre-prologue before the mind flayer abduction where you were made to fight some giant rats in the inn's cellar or however El Generico got his/her/their start, would that be better?

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Originally Posted by WinterbornGuard
The core of both the BG series and D&D is that the character is yours. If Larian "designed" the game to be played with pregens as only true option than this game deserves to fail as it has missed the point.


Charname in BG 1 and 2 isnt YOUR character either. They have a pre-set backstory and origin (Bhaalspawn, Imoen's foster brother, adopted child of whatevr the mage guy is).

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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Sunfly

If you had actually read my chain instead of arguing for the sake of arguing you'd realize that your question was irrelevant to the context of my post.

I understood your point perfectly.
I then proceeded to challenge it using simple reasoning.

If you believe otherwise I welcome the explanation.


Simple reasoning that not only didn't relate to what I said but also didn't relate to what the people I was replying to said? I'm good. Going by your post history I can see why you teachers gave up on teaching you what a tangent is.

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Originally Posted by Sunfly
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Sunfly

If you had actually read my chain instead of arguing for the sake of arguing you'd realize that your question was irrelevant to the context of my post.

I understood your point perfectly.
I then proceeded to challenge it using simple reasoning.

If you believe otherwise I welcome the explanation.


Simple reasoning that not only didn't relate to what I said but also didn't relate to what the people I was replying to said? I'm good. Going by your post history I can see why you teachers gave up on teaching you what a tangent is.

You stated that you did not understand his point about needing a cleric to which he replied that the main purpose of the class is to be healers and support. Your counter point to this was that there are consumables and other sources of healing to which I asked you if you don't think that one of the major classes of the game being, as you so eloquently put it, dead weight is not a matter of concern to you and something that needs addressing. This is a direct follow through on your reasoning using your own words. I'll not be enabling your insults if thats alright with you.'


Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
Originally Posted by Argonaut

Have you considered that I don't want to play someone else's story? That I don't want to play Larians vision of the Hero's Journey but my version of the hero's journey? What reason would there be for this option to not be available to me if not the main focus of the game? If I make a custom character I am making that character to go on an adventure and it's my adventure. I want to be the hero. I don't think that is an unreasonable or big ask especially because it IS early access and now is the time where they can change it without having to retcon later.


I mean, they DO offer that. That is what the custom character is. They aren't going to remove the origin characters' stories just because you want to play El Generico and not have anyone interesting in the part. If they had a pre-prologue before the mind flayer abduction where you were made to fight some giant rats in the inn's cellar or however El Generico got his/her/their start, would that be better?

My comment was directly related to the person I quoted. Their own estimation was that a custom character does not feel as involved as the origin characters but was also motivated by how the companions are shoe horned in and played as main characters themselves. I didn't ask for any changes to be made, I asked for the option to be given to me to play my hero's story without having to play theirs. I will admit I should have probably expanded on this by asking for the choice to start without any of them and not have them show up in game. I am playing a custom character with a bunch of NPC's that have more interaction and tangible significance than my own. This is not the same thing.


I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Sunfly

If you had actually read my chain instead of arguing for the sake of arguing you'd realize that your question was irrelevant to the context of my post.

I understood your point perfectly.
I then proceeded to challenge it using simple reasoning.

If you believe otherwise I welcome the explanation.


Simple reasoning that not only didn't relate to what I said but also didn't relate to what the people I was replying to said? I'm good. Going by your post history I can see why you teachers gave up on teaching you what a tangent is.

You stated that you did not understand his point about needing a cleric to which he replied that the main purpose of the class is to be healers and support. Your counter point to this was that there are consumables and other sources of healing to which I asked you if you don't think that one of the major classes of the game being, as you so eloquently put it, dead weight is not a matter of concern to you and something that needs addressing. This is a direct follow through on your reasoning using your own words. I'll not be enabling your insults if thats alright with you.'


Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
Originally Posted by Argonaut

Have you considered that I don't want to play someone else's story? That I don't want to play Larians vision of the Hero's Journey but my version of the hero's journey? What reason would there be for this option to not be available to me if not the main focus of the game? If I make a custom character I am making that character to go on an adventure and it's my adventure. I want to be the hero. I don't think that is an unreasonable or big ask especially because it IS early access and now is the time where they can change it without having to retcon later.


I mean, they DO offer that. That is what the custom character is. They aren't going to remove the origin characters' stories just because you want to play El Generico and not have anyone interesting in the part. If they had a pre-prologue before the mind flayer abduction where you were made to fight some giant rats in the inn's cellar or however El Generico got his/her/their start, would that be better?

My comment was directly related to the person I quoted. Their own estimation was that a custom character does not feel as involved as the origin characters but was also motivated by how the companions are shoe horned in and played as main characters themselves. I didn't ask for any changes to be made, I asked for the option to be given to me to play my hero's story without having to play theirs. I will admit I should have probably expanded on this by asking for the choice to start without any of them and not have them show up in game. I am playing a custom character with a bunch of NPC's that have more interaction and tangible significance than my own. This is not the same thing.


Your reading comprehension already enables insults. At no point did I say it was desirable that a class should be dead weight, in fact I didn't make a judgement one way or the other at all because that wasn't what was being discussed. I was questioning the idea that clerics were essential party members as had been suggested. Whether or not that state is desirable was beyond the scope of anything that had been discussed in that chain but that didn't stop you from feeling the need to jump in with a tangent so you could keep boosting your post count like you've been doing throughout this whole thread. If you want to keep sealioning for the last word though then we can keep going like this.

Last edited by Sunfly; 19/10/20 12:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sunfly

Your reading comprehension already enables insults. At no point did I say it was desirable that a class should be dead weight, in fact I didn't make a judgement one way or the other at all because that wasn't what was being discussed. I was questioning the idea that clerics were essential party members as had been suggested. Whether or not that state is desirable was beyond the scope of anything that has been discussed in that chain but that didn't stop you from feeling the need to jump in with a tangent so you could keep boosting your post count like you've been doing throughout this whole thread. If you want to keep sealioning for the last word though then we can keep going like this.

I never said you made any claims.
I never challenged your viewpoint.
I am confused as to how calling them dead weight and describing how you leave the cleric behind is not passing judgement but fair enough.
I asked you a simple question out of curiosity using your own words. Yes, I am quite involved with the discussion in threads that interest me and if you feel I made a superfluous post where I am not actively discussing the game please point them out and explain why to me and I will delete them. I never insulted you. I never insinuated anything negative about you. You have been hostile to me and have been denigrating me the entire time for asking you a question. Here is the question:

Originally Posted by Argonaut
The fact that one of the most central classes and one of the major classes of the game feels like dead weight doesn't bother you? I would consider that a red flag that needs immediate attention.

Please tell me how that warranted the extreme aggression you are displaying towards me.

Last edited by Argonaut; 19/10/20 12:08 AM.

I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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+1 to OP, fully agree.

Speaking only to tone, not the mechanical issues, it is very super oppressive. There are only a handful of people encountered who I would want to quest for, or adventure with, although Wyll, the guy with a demon pact, seems like the nicest of the bunch. I don't feel any motivation to want to adventure with any of the party outside of necessity to get the tadpole removed, then I'd happily lone-wolf the game unless better party members come along. At present with what we've been given, I don't care about any of the premade adventurer's stories, I am using them to heal the tadpole then looking to bail if the option presents itself. I also am annoyed that apparently many random NPC's just can instantly sense you have an illithid tadpole in your head, I guess they got an advanced copy of the script for the game. These are not conducive to an engaging story, more like just oppressive, heavy handed, narration. The sense of freedom and choice vanishes when the game actively works against you doing other than what it wants you to (multiple skill checks to pass something the story doesn't want you to, but only one to fail it for example). This is the epitome of a crap DM, in that its railroading and its hand-waving to make the game do what it wants more than what the player wants.

Last edited by Dominemesis; 19/10/20 12:19 AM.
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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Sunfly

Your reading comprehension already enables insults. At no point did I say it was desirable that a class should be dead weight, in fact I didn't make a judgement one way or the other at all because that wasn't what was being discussed. I was questioning the idea that clerics were essential party members as had been suggested. Whether or not that state is desirable was beyond the scope of anything that has been discussed in that chain but that didn't stop you from feeling the need to jump in with a tangent so you could keep boosting your post count like you've been doing throughout this whole thread. If you want to keep sealioning for the last word though then we can keep going like this.

I never said you made any claims.
I never challenged your viewpoint.
I am confused as to how calling them dead weight and describing how you leave the cleric behind is not passing judgement but fair enough.
I asked you a simple question out of curiosity using your own words. Yes, I am quite involved with the discussion in threads that interest me and if you feel I made a superfluous post where I am not actively discussing the game please point them out and explain why to me and I will delete them. I never insulted you. I never insinuated anything negative about you. You have been hostile to me and have been denigrating me the entire time for asking you a question. Here is the question:

Originally Posted by Argonaut
The fact that one of the most central classes and one of the major classes of the game feels like dead weight doesn't bother you? I would consider that a red flag that needs immediate attention.

Please tell me how that warranted the extreme aggression you are displaying towards me.


"You don't think (clear bad thing not being discussed) is bad? I'd find it bad personally."

Sealion.

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