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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Vynticator
Rather too many people here getting frothy over changes from core 5e rules. Larian do their own version of 5e rules. Elemental surfaces are fun, make the map layout and positioning absolutely crucial, and allow for much more tactical play. Some people get hung up on minute differences from 5e: maybe enjoy the game as it is, if it doesn't work in the game, then critique it in those terms. 5e isn't a bible and it's not useful to be fundamentalist.



I played D:OS 1 and D:OS 2. I enjoyed D:OS 1 and D:OS 2. This is a bad "hot take". I'd even call it a strawman argument.


  • For starters, Larian themselves have advertised this game as being based on the D&D 5e ruleset. They did not say "Based on the Divinity: Original Sin rules."
  • Don't tell people to stop complaining about the differences between 5e and this game. Larian does Early Access for a reason, which is specifically to get feedback. If you like the system as it is now, great, fine, that's feedback, and you are free to give it. Don't tell others to shut up.
  • I will now explain the reason for the complaints. It is not a reflexive, knee-jerk aversion to change.
  • Divinity: Original Sin 2 is balanced on the idea of being fully charged with all abilities available for each and every combat. Tactics are King.
  • Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition is balanced on being fully charged after a long rest, and then having resources and options slowly whittled down over the course of a day. Resource Management is King.
  • BG 3 is using Hit points, Armor Class, and Spell Slots for players from D&D 5e. They are using the Concentration mechanic from D&D 5e.
  • Monster HP in BG 3 is usually higher, Monster AC is usually lower, and Ability scores remain the same.
  • D&D's HP, AC and Concentration is not balanced around the idea of status-inflicting surfaces, status-inflicting attacks, and AoE attacks to be as prevalent as they are in BG 3.
  • Just about every single surface effect in D&D has some kind of saving throw to resist for half or no damage. There is no such thing as a guaranteed hit from a surface in 5e, but there is in BG3.
  • Concentration spells are balanced around a roll under 10 or half the damage losing concentration. The more checks you have to make, the greater the chance you will fail. You are far more likely to fail checks because you're doing a lot more of them.
  • Enemy HP is way up, enemy AC is way down. This makes spells balanced around on hitting AC more reliable. This makes spells which affect a certain amount of enemy HP far worse, such as Sleep and Color Spray, because they can affect fewer enemies.
  • Enemy saving throws remain the same. This makes spells balanced around enemies failing a saving throw will seem to suck more because they're doing less damage. Example: Sacred Flame - it does 1d8 - an average of 4.5. Fire Bolt does an average damage of 13.5 from what's supposed to be a 1d10 spell.
  • Armor Class is based around advantage being relatively rare. Statistically speaking, Advantage is an effective +4 (Disadvantage an effective -4). Constant advantage from high ground is and disadvantage from low ground means those on the high ground are dealing more damage, those on the low ground are missing more and dragging battles out longer than would be normal.
  • And I'm even leaving out bonus action shoves, disengages, and hides.
  • Larian has changed many things from 5e, but have left other things as standard. That does not work. The systems have different design goals in mind.



+1

I find it hilarious that some people are telling others (in a feedback forum no less) to stop commenting that this game, which is specifically advertised as a D&D game, vaguely resembles D&D5E. Rolling a D20 doesn't make it D&D. I'm sure the devs all have their big boy pants on and are expecting to hear all this negative feedback...they are working on one of the most publicized titles in a decade.

There are some very good components in what Larian has created so far. Unfortunately there are also some pretty unnecessary changes to core 5E rules that many of us don't feel are contributing to the game in a positive way. Some of them (I'm looking at you over-used ground effects) just ruin the experience for me completely in their current iteration. Things like endless food consumption in combat just demonstrates a change that is only needed because they gave the monsters too many hit points in the first place (and leads to long drawn out combat for no reason). I just hope Larian finds a better balance between "homebrew" and PHB rules than they have implemented so far.

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im pretty sure that even the way larian has been implementing the die role mechanic is different from traditional dnd 5e by reducing the ac rather than adding to your role - ive enjoyed ea so far, but still struggle considering this as bg3

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Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by SilverSaint
[
I don't have a problem with the changes, I have a problem with how much the infringe on balance.


Yes because clearly auto-upcasting Wizards or literal Wizard-Rangers backed by Scorching/Fireball Paladins do not infringe on balance.

I just find it funny how Solasta is apparently our lord and savior, while BG3 is the devil. I currently do a Solasta run and it has plenty of its own stuff that is nowhere to be found in 5e, including environmental effects. Know why? Because it's a video game and video games need a bit more than RAW 5e.


That's because Solasta is a small studio and doesn't have access to the full 5e license from WotC, they only have access to the 5e SRD content. I've already talked to the Solasta creators and apparently it is just too expensive for them to try and get the full license, which is unfortunate.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong
Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by SilverSaint
[
I don't have a problem with the changes, I have a problem with how much the infringe on balance.


Yes because clearly auto-upcasting Wizards or literal Wizard-Rangers backed by Scorching/Fireball Paladins do not infringe on balance.

I just find it funny how Solasta is apparently our lord and savior, while BG3 is the devil. I currently do a Solasta run and it has plenty of its own stuff that is nowhere to be found in 5e, including environmental effects. Know why? Because it's a video game and video games need a bit more than RAW 5e.


That's because Solasta is a small studio and doesn't have access to the full 5e license from WotC, they only have access to the 5e SRD content. I've already talked to the Solasta creators and apparently it is just too expensive for them to try and get the full license, which is unfortunate.


That. Also, Solasta has the basics of 5e down pretty well already, even with their own additions...

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Get over this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv37JEeJ2as&ab_channel=TheSpiffingBrit

Philip Parker
Not sure if you are aware of the Jump + Fast Travel exploit? You cast the jump spell on your main character, and have them Jump to some place you couldn't normally reach. Normally your party would now be separated and would be very sad. However; you can open up the map, go to camp, and then leave the camp immediately, and for some reason your entire party will be spawned right next to your main character. It's a cheesy way to move your entire party anywhere in the map they normally couldn't reach.

Alison Albright
The stealth issues are actually a rules mistake on the part of Larian Studios. In D&D 5e, you cannot "Hide", "Dash", and "Attack" in the same round! In fact, you can only do one of the three, since they all require 1 "Standard Action", of which you have only one. 1 "Standard Action" per turn + 1 "Bonus Action" per turn +1 "Reaction" per turn + unlimited "Free Actions" per turn, and you can move up to your movement speed per turn before, during, and after expending the rest of the other action types.

"Standard Actions" include (but are not limited to): "Attack", "Dash", "Hide", "Help", "Disengage", "Investigate", and so on...
"Bonus Actions" are less common, but in general some class-related abilities as well as certain spells require "1 Bonus Action" to use. A Barbarian going into a Rage is an example of this, only 1 "Bonus Action" to use.
"Reactions" are pretty straightforward. Some classes and spells allow you to react by using them as a "Reaction" instead of a "Standard Action". In addition, you can use your "Standard Action" to prepare a "Reaction" to something the enemy might do. For example, preparing to dodge a flurry of arrows or sidestep a charging minotaur could be "Prepared Reactions".
"Free Actions" are things that take practically no time to accomplish, and can thus be treated as such from a gameplay standpoint. Things like drawing/sheathing your sword, or shouting a few words in the middle of a fight would fall into this category.

It seems to me like Larian Studios has classified the Hide Action and the Dash Action as "Free Actions", when in fact they are not.

Chris Toole
Are we sure Hodd Toward didn't make this game? It just works.

Paul Hawke
You can actually exploit stealth by engaging in combat with one character and doing KO attacks on enemies with another. As long as you don't actually fully KO the enemy, combat won't trigger.

Luke R
For those asking about infinite money:
It's pretty easy. Get shadow heart to 3 for pass without a trace, have Gale hit lvl 3 and pick up invisibility. Cast invis on your stealer, have Shadowheart cast pass without a trace and be near your stealer, enter turn based mode on your stealer, go up to merchant, pick pocket. With both of those spells up most items will have pickpocket dc of 0 or 1. Steal everything to your hearts content. (Be careful of the Tiefling blacksmith in the druid camp, he's a bit bugged right now and will auto aggro even if he doesn't catch you.) Once the trader is bone dry, take a long rest, this will restock their inventory, rinse and repeat.

Cody Yetze
The best stealth strat: Drop down a Fog Cloud or Darkness spell, heavily obscuring a large area. Your entire party can hide in the area, pop out to shoot someone, and hide again. Never lose a fight again!

The Potato
Larian studios: How'd you like to be an unpaid bug tester+advertiser... i mean, receive a free game?
Spiff: lmao. what are they thinking?

Yont EvenKnow
Oh look, poorly implemented stealth in a Larian game. Cant wait to have an entire town go hostile after misclicking on scenery.

yazuriha
I do hope they give some brains to the enemy. It's just too easy to kill everyone in the goblin keep/camp using highround and stealth. Just lob some smokepowder barrels and light it all up with some fire. Most of them just stand there shouting at you, totally puzzled. They should be running for the ladders (if you left those undestroyed)...but no. It's kinda funny though.

killereye
"...I hide and end my turn, and the AI does nothing..."
And this is how you f**k up the gameplay of Baldur's Gate, dear developers. You have copy/pasted Divinity gameplay onto B.G. making the same mistake as Bethesda did when they bought Fallout: You can only make one type of game. Sad thing.
On the other hand, nice exploits, TSB! Keep up the good work!

FrozenTub3
Tbh I am very disappointed with the game, I felt like playing DoS in Forgotten realms setting not playing a DnD game with some cool dos mechanics. I know it's early access but this to me is the biggest video game disappointments since diablo 3 vanila. Also for a big publisher the state of the early access is horrendous (I played quite a lot of early access games)

Papi John
Theres a bug with haste spores which you can really only use in the underdark with glut where you can run through the haste spores, attack, and run right back in to refresh your actions. I cant imagine why you would abuse it though...

Kilivin
As much as I love D&D and DOS... D&D =/= BG3 as much as they are trying to mirror one to the other, they're too invested in their DOS mechanics to do a proper job of it.
Example, you cannot stealth as a bonus action unless you're a rogue, but everyone in BG3 can stealth as a bonus action. You cannot "Summon" a pet as a ranger, you have a pet as an added character to your party. Firebolt doesn't set stuff worn or carried on fire, but in BG3 it does. The list goes on and on. Most of the exploits the game has is because they strayed from D&D's core mechanics in favor of more DOS style mechanics. Don't even get me started with stealth and enemies having "Limited vision cones" making no sense whatsoever. Stuff that blocks LOS breaks a cone that ought to be infinite upwards of what that creature has vision towards. Having a "Limited range" of vision so that you can stealth by something so long as you're far enough away from it yet in plain sight is sooooooooooooooo gamey.

Laszlo Ivanyi
Hey so that's what it was. I also did a big fight where everyone was standing. I didn't do any hide and seek, but they might have been focusing on a character that started that way. But after 2 days, I concluded this is not baldurs gate, this is Divinity 3. I couldn't see a single thing in it that would remind me of BG2.. good game regardless, just not baldurs gate.

Liquidated
You never really mentioned why the ranger is so broken at level 3. =)
This game is a riot, so large and destructible.

MorpH2k
Expecting people to pay 50€ for a buggy early access games is insane, and this video shows exactly why. smirk If they want free bug testing the least they could do is discount the price a little bit. I used to like early access, at least as a concept, but it's gotten completely out of hand.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 20/10/20 11:01 PM.
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Case and point: That's what happens when you go "freestyle" before you nail your basic systems down...

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Originally Posted by nation
im pretty sure that even the way larian has been implementing the die role mechanic is different from traditional dnd 5e by reducing the ac rather than adding to your role - ive enjoyed ea so far, but still struggle considering this as bg3

Finding fault with this is just being unreasonable, and I clearly find fault with a lot with the current system. This is literally the difference between adding something to X versus subtracting it from Y, if we view this as "different" we've entered the ground of what being equivalent even means.

Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by SilverSaint
[
I don't have a problem with the changes, I have a problem with how much the infringe on balance.


Yes because clearly auto-upcasting Wizards or literal Wizard-Rangers backed by Scorching/Fireball Paladins do not infringe on balance.

I just find it funny how Solasta is apparently our lord and savior, while BG3 is the devil. I currently do a Solasta run and it has plenty of its own stuff that is nowhere to be found in 5e, including environmental effects. Know why? Because it's a video game and video games need a bit more than RAW 5e.

It doesen't. Wizards with ranger spells aren't rangers, they don't get the features of a ranger otherwise including extra attack. Paladins with boomey spells likewise does not infringe on balance, because they lack the spell slots to really spam those spells. Heck, you can make a Paladin/Sorcerer that can do the same thing, at the same levels, and it's not broken at all.

Everything getting free disengage, on the otherhand, takes the balance out back and shoots it between the eyes in a shallow grave. It's almost impossible to control an area in the current rule-set, for instance, or to maintain concentration against fire effects, or to survive against a trap with barrels. Every problem can also be solved by liberal application of barrels of smokepowder and oil in some combination to create the ideal fuel mixture and turn the map into a damned inferno.

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According to most users here, interesting encounters means turning every single encounter into "The Floor is Lava" while being on a cliff ( Portable or Not ).

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Originally Posted by SilverSaint
Originally Posted by nation
im pretty sure that even the way larian has been implementing the die role mechanic is different from traditional dnd 5e by reducing the ac rather than adding to your role - ive enjoyed ea so far, but still struggle considering this as bg3

Finding fault with this is just being unreasonable, and I clearly find fault with a lot with the current system. This is literally the difference between adding something to X versus subtracting it from Y, if we view this as "different" we've entered the ground of what being equivalent even means.
oh i dont disagree - and tbh im not sure this function is finalized yet, particularly regarding crit hits/misses - i was just highlighting what i found to be another small but unnecessary difference made by larian among the variety of other changes they made when merging 5e with their dos system that in aggregate concern me about what game we can expect at launch

and at first i was struggling for the longest time trying to figure out their math, lol

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Isaac Springsong you're spot on with this:

Quote

Larian made changes based on...literally no idea. Because they felt their style of play (DoS where every surface is an effect, every fight must be at full resources, every fight has to try to have a new gimmick, barrelmancy, etc) was superior to the style of Baldur's Gate?


That's the most succinct summary of why these deviations from 5e and feels like a DOS D&D mod.

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Quote

Larian made changes based on...literally no idea. Because they felt their style of play (DoS where every surface is an effect, every fight must be at full resources, every fight has to try to have a new gimmick, barrelmancy, etc) was superior to the style of Baldur's Gate?


So Fake News about the whole D&D stuff?


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TheSpiffingBrit has months and months of content for his channel thanks to Larian. smile

I may get more enjoyment from his videos then from the game. wink

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Originally Posted by SilverSaint
Originally Posted by nation
im pretty sure that even the way larian has been implementing the die role mechanic is different from traditional dnd 5e by reducing the ac rather than adding to your role - ive enjoyed ea so far, but still struggle considering this as bg3

Finding fault with this is just being unreasonable, and I clearly find fault with a lot with the current system. This is literally the difference between adding something to X versus subtracting it from Y, if we view this as "different" we've entered the ground of what being equivalent even means.

Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by SilverSaint
[
I don't have a problem with the changes, I have a problem with how much the infringe on balance.


Yes because clearly auto-upcasting Wizards or literal Wizard-Rangers backed by Scorching/Fireball Paladins do not infringe on balance.

I just find it funny how Solasta is apparently our lord and savior, while BG3 is the devil. I currently do a Solasta run and it has plenty of its own stuff that is nowhere to be found in 5e, including environmental effects. Know why? Because it's a video game and video games need a bit more than RAW 5e.

It doesen't. Wizards with ranger spells aren't rangers, they don't get the features of a ranger otherwise including extra attack. Paladins with boomey spells likewise does not infringe on balance, because they lack the spell slots to really spam those spells. Heck, you can make a Paladin/Sorcerer that can do the same thing, at the same levels, and it's not broken at all.

Everything getting free disengage, on the otherhand, takes the balance out back and shoots it between the eyes in a shallow grave. It's almost impossible to control an area in the current rule-set, for instance, or to maintain concentration against fire effects, or to survive against a trap with barrels. Every problem can also be solved by liberal application of barrels of smokepowder and oil in some combination to create the ideal fuel mixture and turn the map into a damned inferno.

Why is it unreasonable?

Reducing the DC instead of showing your roll removes the feeling of progression from your character

Solasta just came out and when I click a door to lockpick it, the dice rolls over my head and says "D20roll+X (sleight of hand) - SUCCESS" and it really emphasizes how good my character is

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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Get over this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv37JEeJ2as&ab_channel=TheSpiffingBrit

Philip Parker
Not sure if you are aware of the Jump + Fast Travel exploit? You cast the jump spell on your main character, and have them Jump to some place you couldn't normally reach. Normally your party would now be separated and would be very sad. However; you can open up the map, go to camp, and then leave the camp immediately, and for some reason your entire party will be spawned right next to your main character. It's a cheesy way to move your entire party anywhere in the map they normally couldn't reach.

Alison Albright
The stealth issues are actually a rules mistake on the part of Larian Studios. In D&D 5e, you cannot "Hide", "Dash", and "Attack" in the same round! In fact, you can only do one of the three, since they all require 1 "Standard Action", of which you have only one. 1 "Standard Action" per turn + 1 "Bonus Action" per turn +1 "Reaction" per turn + unlimited "Free Actions" per turn, and you can move up to your movement speed per turn before, during, and after expending the rest of the other action types.

"Standard Actions" include (but are not limited to): "Attack", "Dash", "Hide", "Help", "Disengage", "Investigate", and so on...
"Bonus Actions" are less common, but in general some class-related abilities as well as certain spells require "1 Bonus Action" to use. A Barbarian going into a Rage is an example of this, only 1 "Bonus Action" to use.
"Reactions" are pretty straightforward. Some classes and spells allow you to react by using them as a "Reaction" instead of a "Standard Action". In addition, you can use your "Standard Action" to prepare a "Reaction" to something the enemy might do. For example, preparing to dodge a flurry of arrows or sidestep a charging minotaur could be "Prepared Reactions".
"Free Actions" are things that take practically no time to accomplish, and can thus be treated as such from a gameplay standpoint. Things like drawing/sheathing your sword, or shouting a few words in the middle of a fight would fall into this category.

It seems to me like Larian Studios has classified the Hide Action and the Dash Action as "Free Actions", when in fact they are not.

Chris Toole
Are we sure Hodd Toward didn't make this game? It just works.

Paul Hawke
You can actually exploit stealth by engaging in combat with one character and doing KO attacks on enemies with another. As long as you don't actually fully KO the enemy, combat won't trigger.

Luke R
For those asking about infinite money:
It's pretty easy. Get shadow heart to 3 for pass without a trace, have Gale hit lvl 3 and pick up invisibility. Cast invis on your stealer, have Shadowheart cast pass without a trace and be near your stealer, enter turn based mode on your stealer, go up to merchant, pick pocket. With both of those spells up most items will have pickpocket dc of 0 or 1. Steal everything to your hearts content. (Be careful of the Tiefling blacksmith in the druid camp, he's a bit bugged right now and will auto aggro even if he doesn't catch you.) Once the trader is bone dry, take a long rest, this will restock their inventory, rinse and repeat.

Cody Yetze
The best stealth strat: Drop down a Fog Cloud or Darkness spell, heavily obscuring a large area. Your entire party can hide in the area, pop out to shoot someone, and hide again. Never lose a fight again!

The Potato
Larian studios: How'd you like to be an unpaid bug tester+advertiser... i mean, receive a free game?
Spiff: lmao. what are they thinking?

Yont EvenKnow
Oh look, poorly implemented stealth in a Larian game. Cant wait to have an entire town go hostile after misclicking on scenery.

yazuriha
I do hope they give some brains to the enemy. It's just too easy to kill everyone in the goblin keep/camp using highround and stealth. Just lob some smokepowder barrels and light it all up with some fire. Most of them just stand there shouting at you, totally puzzled. They should be running for the ladders (if you left those undestroyed)...but no. It's kinda funny though.

killereye
"...I hide and end my turn, and the AI does nothing..."
And this is how you f**k up the gameplay of Baldur's Gate, dear developers. You have copy/pasted Divinity gameplay onto B.G. making the same mistake as Bethesda did when they bought Fallout: You can only make one type of game. Sad thing.
On the other hand, nice exploits, TSB! Keep up the good work!

FrozenTub3
Tbh I am very disappointed with the game, I felt like playing DoS in Forgotten realms setting not playing a DnD game with some cool dos mechanics. I know it's early access but this to me is the biggest video game disappointments since diablo 3 vanila. Also for a big publisher the state of the early access is horrendous (I played quite a lot of early access games)

Papi John
Theres a bug with haste spores which you can really only use in the underdark with glut where you can run through the haste spores, attack, and run right back in to refresh your actions. I cant imagine why you would abuse it though...

Kilivin
As much as I love D&D and DOS... D&D =/= BG3 as much as they are trying to mirror one to the other, they're too invested in their DOS mechanics to do a proper job of it.
Example, you cannot stealth as a bonus action unless you're a rogue, but everyone in BG3 can stealth as a bonus action. You cannot "Summon" a pet as a ranger, you have a pet as an added character to your party. Firebolt doesn't set stuff worn or carried on fire, but in BG3 it does. The list goes on and on. Most of the exploits the game has is because they strayed from D&D's core mechanics in favor of more DOS style mechanics. Don't even get me started with stealth and enemies having "Limited vision cones" making no sense whatsoever. Stuff that blocks LOS breaks a cone that ought to be infinite upwards of what that creature has vision towards. Having a "Limited range" of vision so that you can stealth by something so long as you're far enough away from it yet in plain sight is sooooooooooooooo gamey.

Laszlo Ivanyi
Hey so that's what it was. I also did a big fight where everyone was standing. I didn't do any hide and seek, but they might have been focusing on a character that started that way. But after 2 days, I concluded this is not baldurs gate, this is Divinity 3. I couldn't see a single thing in it that would remind me of BG2.. good game regardless, just not baldurs gate.

Liquidated
You never really mentioned why the ranger is so broken at level 3. =)
This game is a riot, so large and destructible.

MorpH2k
Expecting people to pay 50€ for a buggy early access games is insane, and this video shows exactly why. smirk If they want free bug testing the least they could do is discount the price a little bit. I used to like early access, at least as a concept, but it's gotten completely out of hand.


Thank you for this amazing compilation! Trilled to wait for barbarian players to notice that the reckless attack will only come with a downside due to this ridiculous advantage system. Oh, nvm, we can’t hurt Larians feelings

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by Limz

D&D was broken from the get go so stop putting it on a pedestal and actually approach this like a professional would


While there is no perfectly balanced system out there, 5e is pretty darn good. You show little understanding for it, but are very rude to overcompensate that fact.

Quote
You're also terrible because you keep conflating issues


Maybe refrain from calling other users terrible.


Yeah.... 5e is INCREDIBLY well balanced

there are only a handful of "Broken" characters, and even then they really aren't, it often requires some level of DM buy in

there are obvious shenanigans that Larian should nerf like Spell Sniper + Eldritch Spear + buying a spyglass + the fly spell so that players can't just be an orbital ion cannon, but in general 5e is an amazingly well balanced system. The most overpowered (statistically) abilities (like the lucky feat) tend not even to be taken by minmaxers because they don't give you Bigger Numbers

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Originally Posted by override367
Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by Limz

D&D was broken from the get go so stop putting it on a pedestal and actually approach this like a professional would


While there is no perfectly balanced system out there, 5e is pretty darn good. You show little understanding for it, but are very rude to overcompensate that fact.

Quote
You're also terrible because you keep conflating issues


Maybe refrain from calling other users terrible.


Yeah.... 5e is INCREDIBLY well balanced

there are only a handful of "Broken" characters, and even then they really aren't, it often requires some level of DM buy in

there are obvious shenanigans that Larian should nerf like Spell Sniper + Eldritch Spear + buying a spyglass + the fly spell so that players can't just be an orbital ion cannon, but in general 5e is an amazingly well balanced system. The most overpowered (statistically) abilities (like the lucky feat) tend not even to be taken by minmaxers because they don't give you Bigger Numbers



Nah, both of you two are pretty terrible when it comes to understanding basic concepts which makes it kind of a chore to even begin warranting a discussion.

It's pretty funny that King Tiki says I show little understanding of it yet this is all you need to understand that no system/framework is ever going to be a perfect fit right out of the box when you change its context in which it is built in. This is literally a fact of life and any engineer or architect gets it; you have your standard parts and always a ton of proprietary parts.

5e performs well at certain level ranges and with a DM as a guide, it also performs well as a table top game with a certain group of people. It also makes some assumptions before you even begin a campaign or design one or think of one which is that the balance that does exist relies on short rests and long rests. This is called context.

Once you take 5e out of context and apply it to different situations you'll either have to change the situations or change the rule set. These different situations can include anything from intended audience, narrative liberty, and constraints such as time.

Never once have either of you have thought of this from Larian's perspective, but always an egocentric memememe! mentality - it's fucking retarded to say the least. I mean, I get it, this isn't 5e and we have our god emperor Solasta for that because that's their only goal and context (which I have bought as well).


So, bottom line is this: No system is perfectly balanced and this worsens when you take it out of the context in which it was originally designed in. Larian has a different context and, by demonstration, different priorities as well which is a POSSIBLE reason as to why they're taking the liberties that they are (and possibly a reason why WotC doesn't actually care -- it'll probably boost sales one way or another).

Not really a hard concept to get. Like I said, go work a day or two as a systems architect or a game designer, take an existing framework and try to break it in as many ways as possible without even touching the internals and you'll see it's pretty easy ... because people build and design systems with a certain context in mind.

It's probably also never occurred to you either that adopting table top rules in a vacuum for a CRPG is a handicap, but that's an aside.













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Originally Posted by override367
Originally Posted by SilverSaint
Originally Posted by nation
im pretty sure that even the way larian has been implementing the die role mechanic is different from traditional dnd 5e by reducing the ac rather than adding to your role - ive enjoyed ea so far, but still struggle considering this as bg3

Finding fault with this is just being unreasonable, and I clearly find fault with a lot with the current system. This is literally the difference between adding something to X versus subtracting it from Y, if we view this as "different" we've entered the ground of what being equivalent even means.

Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by SilverSaint
[
I don't have a problem with the changes, I have a problem with how much the infringe on balance.


Yes because clearly auto-upcasting Wizards or literal Wizard-Rangers backed by Scorching/Fireball Paladins do not infringe on balance.

I just find it funny how Solasta is apparently our lord and savior, while BG3 is the devil. I currently do a Solasta run and it has plenty of its own stuff that is nowhere to be found in 5e, including environmental effects. Know why? Because it's a video game and video games need a bit more than RAW 5e.

It doesen't. Wizards with ranger spells aren't rangers, they don't get the features of a ranger otherwise including extra attack. Paladins with boomey spells likewise does not infringe on balance, because they lack the spell slots to really spam those spells. Heck, you can make a Paladin/Sorcerer that can do the same thing, at the same levels, and it's not broken at all.

Everything getting free disengage, on the otherhand, takes the balance out back and shoots it between the eyes in a shallow grave. It's almost impossible to control an area in the current rule-set, for instance, or to maintain concentration against fire effects, or to survive against a trap with barrels. Every problem can also be solved by liberal application of barrels of smokepowder and oil in some combination to create the ideal fuel mixture and turn the map into a damned inferno.

Why is it unreasonable?

Reducing the DC instead of showing your roll removes the feeling of progression from your character

Solasta just came out and when I click a door to lockpick it, the dice rolls over my head and says "D20roll+X (sleight of hand) - SUCCESS" and it really emphasizes how good my character is

Okay, that's actually a good reason, but it's cosmetic-a UI complaint not actual math. I want that to be clear. But in general, I don't understand why people care at all-while your reasoning makes sense, I can just as easily feel accomplishment over seeing low numbers.

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Quite Frankly, let’s translate every shit in our lives like Limz did and claiming it’s a context matter and problem solved.

I don’t give a shit by your empty statements as long as I enjoy the product that I’ve bought. I don’t. I’ve payed. That gives the right to complain and hope for the best. Do your thing being larian’s errand boy but don’t tell how to manage MY expectations that they’ve created by using DnD appeal and giving instead a damn DOS

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A conformist never achieves anything of value. It's like being a walking corpse.

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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
A conformist never achieves anything of value. It's like being a walking corpse.


This is far worse than being conformist. This is a specimen of Blind Fanboy.


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