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Originally Posted by Limz
Never once have either of you have thought of this from Larian's perspective, but always an egocentric memememe! mentality - it's fucking retarded to say the least. I mean, I get it, this isn't 5e and we have our god emperor Solasta for that because that's their only goal and context (which I have bought as well).

We'll have less of this, thanks. I'm not trawling back to see "whose fault" it was, but don't wish to see our discussions being conducted in this manner. Be nice or people risk being suspended. Thanks.


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Game is advertised as Baldurs Gate 3 game. And as DnD game based on 5e.

I expect that. I want to play 5e. We have been waiting since NWN2 to play another DnD game. That's what we want. DnD.

I don't mind DOS system but for that I will have another DOS game in future.

DnD 5e does not need to be mixed with another system. It's been playtested for 6 years and is perfectly developed and designed. I don't mind some small bufff and nerfs, but I don't like when devs promise me 5e game and I get DOS game 1.5 mixed with some 5e rules.

Either give me Cyberpunk or Witcher. Don't give me Cyberwitcher.

Last edited by Benny89; 21/10/20 03:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by Limz
Originally Posted by override367
Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by Limz

D&D was broken from the get go so stop putting it on a pedestal and actually approach this like a professional would


While there is no perfectly balanced system out there, 5e is pretty darn good. You show little understanding for it, but are very rude to overcompensate that fact.

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You're also terrible because you keep conflating issues


Maybe refrain from calling other users terrible.


Yeah.... 5e is INCREDIBLY well balanced

there are only a handful of "Broken" characters, and even then they really aren't, it often requires some level of DM buy in

there are obvious shenanigans that Larian should nerf like Spell Sniper + Eldritch Spear + buying a spyglass + the fly spell so that players can't just be an orbital ion cannon, but in general 5e is an amazingly well balanced system. The most overpowered (statistically) abilities (like the lucky feat) tend not even to be taken by minmaxers because they don't give you Bigger Numbers



Nah, both of you two are pretty terrible when it comes to understanding basic concepts which makes it kind of a chore to even begin warranting a discussion.

It's pretty funny that King Tiki says I show little understanding of it yet this is all you need to understand that no system/framework is ever going to be a perfect fit right out of the box when you change its context in which it is built in. This is literally a fact of life and any engineer or architect gets it; you have your standard parts and always a ton of proprietary parts.

5e performs well at certain level ranges and with a DM as a guide, it also performs well as a table top game with a certain group of people. It also makes some assumptions before you even begin a campaign or design one or think of one which is that the balance that does exist relies on short rests and long rests. This is called context.

Once you take 5e out of context and apply it to different situations you'll either have to change the situations or change the rule set. These different situations can include anything from intended audience, narrative liberty, and constraints such as time.

Never once have either of you have thought of this from Larian's perspective, but always an egocentric memememe! mentality - it's fucking retarded to say the least. I mean, I get it, this isn't 5e and we have our god emperor Solasta for that because that's their only goal and context (which I have bought as well).


So, bottom line is this: No system is perfectly balanced and this worsens when you take it out of the context in which it was originally designed in. Larian has a different context and, by demonstration, different priorities as well which is a POSSIBLE reason as to why they're taking the liberties that they are (and possibly a reason why WotC doesn't actually care -- it'll probably boost sales one way or another).

Not really a hard concept to get. Like I said, go work a day or two as a systems architect or a game designer, take an existing framework and try to break it in as many ways as possible without even touching the internals and you'll see it's pretty easy ... because people build and design systems with a certain context in mind.

It's probably also never occurred to you either that adopting table top rules in a vacuum for a CRPG is a handicap, but that's an aside.


Obviously you can't adopt a ruleset in a vacuum, nobody is saying it should be literally 1:1, I think what people are pretty universally upset about are not elements that were changed to better fit the CRPG mold, but elements added, and everything else has to be changed to fit those elements

Solasta: Crown of the Magister is on steam right now, I've spent the last few hours playing it. It's an extremely faithful adaptation of 5e and handles the rule system just fine

-All characters can respond to dialogue (so the charismatic paladin can be charismatic and the smart wizard can be smart
-The game accurately translates 5e's cover system
-The game accurately translates the game's benefits from height
-Enemies have accurate statistics and hitpoints for their CR
-Limited long resting so that you can fight 7hp goblins and have it be meaningful
-Spells are accurately translated (including cantrips!)
-Environmental hazards are present (falling bricks, etc), but they are a lot more subdued
-Enemies are not inexplicably loaded with consumables
-All items enemies possess all the equipment you see them using, but you are heavily hindered by carry weight
-The 4-part brief tutorial explains how all the major mechanics of 5e work that you will need to play the game

It does have changes from the tabletop because, duh, its a CRPG, not a TTRPG, and it's about 2 tiers below Baldur's Gate 3 in terms of production value, but if they can do it, so can BG3.

I'm not saying it's better than Baldur's Gate 3, but boy howdy could Baldur's Gate 3 learn some lessons from it.

Edit: as an aside, I have done development work, and I understand everything you are saying. I don't think you're fully listening to anyone else in here: It's not that Larian tried a system and it wasn't working and had to change it. Dig into the game files, they clearly *started* from Divinity and worked their way over to where we are now.

I'd like them to keep going away from Divinity.


Last edited by override367; 21/10/20 04:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by Limz

Nah, both of you two are pretty terrible when it comes to understanding basic concepts which makes it kind of a chore to even begin warranting a discussion.


Is that the reason you deliver no arguments?

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It's pretty funny that King Tiki says I show little understanding of it yet this is all you need to understand that no system/framework is ever going to be a perfect fit right out of the box when you change its context in which it is built in. This is literally a fact of life and any engineer or architect gets it; you have your standard parts and always a ton of proprietary parts.


You could realize that I never said that and you just built a giant strawman. Obviously you cannot do everything from the tabletop 1:1 in a pc game. But you can do a lot of things and we mostly criticize that Larian changed even those parts that did not need changing.

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5e performs well at certain level ranges and with a DM as a guide, it also performs well as a table top game with a certain group of people. It also makes some assumptions before you even begin a campaign or design one or think of one which is that the balance that does exist relies on short rests and long rests. This is called context.


And you fail to show which of these things are not possible to deliver in BG3.

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Once you take 5e out of context and apply it to different situations you'll either have to change the situations or change the rule set. These different situations can include anything from intended audience, narrative liberty, and constraints such as time.


All changes I see are deliberate changes for points where Larian is not trusting the 5e ruleset and thinks they will do it better. Which as a systems architect I can understand, but as a consumer I find too lazy to justify. (Should these things be not just "EA faults").

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Never once have either of you have thought of this from Larian's perspective, but always an egocentric memememe! mentality - it's fucking retarded to say the least. I mean, I get it, this isn't 5e and we have our god emperor Solasta for that because that's their only goal and context (which I have bought as well).


Whoa whoa, a little personal aren't we? "memememe! mentality"? For giving feedback in a feedback forum? The thing the Devs explicitly asked for? ("Tell us what you dont like and why!") Okay...?

Retarded? Are those the words of someone who has huge problems delivering arguments with actual substance? Yes. Also I have not even bought Solasta, but played the demo for 2hrs maybe. So that "fanboy" argument is weak. But its a fact that they show really good that the 5e rules can be adhered to and make something that is fun in the process. I really hope Solasta gets really popular in their EA, too. Maybe Larian will get over their fear that some aspects of 5e are not "fun enough".

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So, bottom line is this: No system is perfectly balanced and this worsens when you take it out of the context in which it was originally designed in. Larian has a different context and, by demonstration, different priorities as well which is a POSSIBLE reason as to why they're taking the liberties that they are (and possibly a reason why WotC doesn't actually care -- it'll probably boost sales one way or another).


Oh a another strawman.

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Like I said, go work a day or two as a systems architect or a game designer


Oh look at that. Thats my actual job laugh + requirements engineering. Well shite. Better call my boss and tell her I never really worked until now, because some really smart dude on the internet has me all figured out frown

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