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Originally Posted by Chaotic Good
Originally Posted by Arne
teenage girls are fond of.
Well, if you imply that teenage girls prefer normal straight men to bisexual genderless "men", than, there is hope for western women of nowadays. I am not from the west, so I don't really care, women I have contact with are normal. Also, what a compliment you just gave to this 67 years old lady, calling her a "teenage girl", good job. And, it is not always "strong hero/damsel in distress", damsel in not always can be in distress, and strength of a hero can be first and foremost in his honor and will, not only in muscles. What you want to say, probably, is "honorable strong-willed man/beautiful caring maiden" trope, normal straight people, both women and men, are fond of.

The sexual preferences of women and men are completely clear. A book, movie or game that caters to them will be successful. If it doesn't, it will be unsuccessful. It's as simple as that.

Just take the muscle-bound, honorable heroes in World of Warcraft and the ridiculous 'female armor' which leaves everything exposed biggrin

Originally Posted by Chaotic Good
P.S. Witcher? I played it, full game, it is good, not really get why you try to use this game as an example, as there is 2 options to romance, Yenn and Triss, and none of them is "damsel in distress", but strong sorcerers, but to be fair, you do help them, especially Triss. Didn't like the arrogance of Yenn, so said no to her, and chose Triss. Got the best ending as well, and, in every DLC. Good game but no re-play value at all, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Innateagle
I never got where that comes from. The one damsel in distress i can think of in W2/3 is a dragon, and she gets saved by getting impaled on a tree.

Guys, you are literally *constantly* flirting with Triss. She acts like a child and looks like a model - not like someone who is living in the slums and being persecuted. The entire war/persecution story takes a backseat and is completely implausible - in one moment, you are sweeping Triss off her feet and kissing, in the next, you are beating up bad guys.

The entire trope of sorceresses/magic is so popular exactly because it allows writers & designers to depict cute and physically weak females that can still be 'powerful' and help you beat up bad guys.

And Geralt is the typical, classical female (and male) fantasy: A strong, muscle-bound, clever Hero, taciturn, loyal and honest to a fault.

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Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
We demand sexy and revealing jam making mini-games.

We demand more sexy use of old forum memes !

It's now step beyond old, it's become a classic. Kinda miss that thread, it was the trainwreck you just couldn't take your eyes away from.

@BeeBee that's hilarious! Kinda amazing to see how different that character was to Jessica Jones.

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Originally Posted by Rubymosh
Why are all the classes either gay acting, high-voiced men or snotty, hard ass women? I am a long-time woman gamer (age 67) and I would like a deep voiced, handsome male as a romance companion. Are all the devs gay men who hate women?? And now the new class, Druid, is a woman!! I'm not gay and do not want a romance with another woman. What is wrong with you people? Why isn't there a sexy, male like Ifan Ben-Mezd for us straight women players? I've quit playing the game as I am disgusted with the companions!!!!!!!!!

Oh this has made my forum-browsing day, thank you. Although I don't do in-game romances, I can't stand the current companions at all.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Many people allready menitoned that ultimate bisexuality and the fact that nobody cares about races in matter romances with companions seems odd. :-/
So ... +1, letds hope this will be changed slightly.

I understand why Larian made everyone romanceable to everyone, regardless of race or sexuality, but I think it's a terrible idea. It's another coin in the immersion breaking jar.

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I do think we will get more uh masculine companions in the future. I am genuinely and whole-heartily hoping we can recruit non origin companions (that are not generic DOS:II Mercs) so we can get a real variety. They don't have to be as in depth as the origin ones but there would definitely be a possibility of some of them being stronger men types and some being "hunks" (and for those who prefer the opposite, more magical inclined females because I have seen that requested before). Essentially, I am hoping Larian gives us a varied and large cast to play around with so that most people are happy.

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Originally Posted by Arne
...that caters to them will be successful. If it doesn't, it will be unsuccessful. It's as simple as that.
Look at TLoU2, at what BG3 becomes, some other popular titles, to whom they are catering? Hmm? While factually (links above) commenting against White males. You know why only against them they dare make such statement, on the West. "It's as simple as that.".
It is indeed like you said, catering is needed for business, or, the product will be unsuccessful. Money talks. Some games now made not for gamers, but for "western twitter game-journalists".
Original post lady clearly sees it as well.

It would be good if we will be able to create our own party members, as I, as well, don't want to venture forth with any of the companions that are introduced for the moment. Can always go solo, though. More strategic and tactical thinking, hope they will add Lone-wolf mode like in DOSII.

Originally Posted by Arne
She acts like a child and looks like a model - not like someone who is living in the slums and being persecuted.
Originally Posted by Arne
The entire war/persecution story takes a backseat and is completely implausible - in one moment, you are sweeping Triss off her feet and kissing, in the next, you are beating up bad guys.
Originally Posted by Arne
The entire trope of sorceresses/magic is so popular exactly because it allows writers & designers to depict cute and physically weak females that can still be 'powerful' and help you beat up bad guys.
And Geralt is the typical, classical female (and male) fantasy: A strong, muscle-bound, clever Hero, taciturn, loyal and honest to a fault.

You clearly didn't read the Witcher books.
Shortly, Sorcerers are the most powerful men and women (not only women, as you try to imply: "to depict cute and physically weak females") in that universe, there are many heroes of wars among them (including Triss, who actually uses illusion magic (and other treatment) to hide horrific scars from the war), they can choose how they look using magic ("looks like a model"). Yenn was a hunchback, if you did not know, she was blinded in war (her sight was later magically restored). You also clearly don't know anything about Witch hunts in this series.
"sweeping Triss off her feet and kissing" not because Geralt is ultra-chad, but because they have a very long relationship and story (in books), and in the game you have the opportunity to make them a couple, as well as with Yenn, with whom he is bound by Wish.
"And Geralt is the typical, classical female (and male) fantasy: A strong, muscle-bound, clever Hero, taciturn, loyal and honest to a fault." - not quite. Strong, yes, but a monster (mutated Witcher), not really muscle-bound, but agile and using special concoctions and techniques that were planted in his head by years of harsh Witcher trainings, clever only about how to kill monsters, taciturn as normal male, loyal and honest to a fault - hmm, where did you get this? Not really. Maybe only to Cirilla, basically, his daughter.

Arne #757781 20/02/21 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Arne
Originally Posted by Chaotic Good
P.S. Witcher? I played it, full game, it is good, not really get why you try to use this game as an example, as there is 2 options to romance, Yenn and Triss, and none of them is "damsel in distress", but strong sorcerers, but to be fair, you do help them, especially Triss. Didn't like the arrogance of Yenn, so said no to her, and chose Triss. Got the best ending as well, and, in every DLC. Good game but no re-play value at all, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Innateagle
I never got where that comes from. The one damsel in distress i can think of in W2/3 is a dragon, and she gets saved by getting impaled on a tree.

Guys, you are literally *constantly* flirting with Triss. She acts like a child and looks like a model - not like someone who is living in the slums and being persecuted. The entire war/persecution story takes a backseat and is completely implausible - in one moment, you are sweeping Triss off her feet and kissing, in the next, you are beating up bad guys.

The entire trope of sorceresses/magic is so popular exactly because it allows writers & designers to depict cute and physically weak females that can still be 'powerful' and help you beat up bad guys.

And Geralt is the typical, classical female (and male) fantasy: A strong, muscle-bound, clever Hero, taciturn, loyal and honest to a fault.

Sorceresses in the witcher aren't 'powerful', they're a scheming and manipulative bunch without whom the 'strong hero' would have died in 50 different occations (even just in games).

Case in point, Triss' innocent act is mostly just that, an act, one she keeps up at all times. She's otherwise someone who had little to no problem taking advantage (sexually and otherwise) of the amnesiac strong hero (and indeed tries manipulating him again with the whole 'i'm so tipsy' thing).

And, again, the straight up nicest 'woman' in the games is the only one that gets straight up saved by a lonesome Geralt, and he does so by first fighting her to death and then impaling her on a tree.

Dunno, diminishing everything to mere tropes is easy, and might even yield a technically correct result, but i don't like it nor agree with it. Would certainly make it harder to enjoy stuff, highkey even BG3 itself xd

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I do think we will get more uh masculine companions in the future. I am genuinely and whole-heartily hoping we can recruit non origin companions (that are not generic DOS:II Mercs) so we can get a real variety. They don't have to be as in depth as the origin ones but there would definitely be a possibility of some of them being stronger men types and some being "hunks" (and for those who prefer the opposite, more magical inclined females because I have seen that requested before). Essentially, I am hoping Larian gives us a varied and large cast to play around with so that most people are happy.

As I said, I somewhere saw a model of Minsc and Nightsong. I think it was even on these forums or on GoG.

Originally Posted by Chaotic Good
You clearly didn't read the Witcher books. [...]
"sweeping Triss off her feet and kissing" not because Geralt is ultra-chad, but because they have a very long relationship and story (in books), and in the game you have the opportunity to make them a couple, as well as with Yenn, with whom he is bound by Wish.

Chaotic, they are going to a *mask ball* to supposedly rescue a noble. Triss becomes *drunk* while they are on a life and death mission, they flirt and get tipsy. They even take their masks off, although they are supposed to be 'undercover'.

Let's simply agree that the games and the books are entirely different. Have you even seen Triss' so called "undercover" outfit? grin



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Originally Posted by Chaotic Good
Originally Posted by Arne
...that caters to them will be successful. If it doesn't, it will be unsuccessful. It's as simple as that.
Look at TLoU2, at what BG3 becomes, some other popular titles, to whom they are catering? Hmm? While factually (links above) commenting against White males. You know why only against them they dare make such statement, on the West. "It's as simple as that.".

Ah, and what good did it do? The Last of Us 2 got review bombed, Life is Strange 2 failed completely. The designer of Vampire Bloodlines was maybe even fired because of something like this.

There is a simple rule for basically every single successful book, movie and game, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Pride and Prejudice, Romeo and Juliet - they are *always* the old, classical revenge and war stories, set in a completely ultra conservative world. Because that's simply what people like to read.

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I hope we can improve our appreciation rating with Minsc if we feed Goodberries and cheese to Boo.


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I support OP's sentiment so +1 from me. A lot of derailing and shade being thrown so I don't know how far this topic will go.

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Originally Posted by Arne
Ah, and what good did it do? The Last of Us 2 got review bombed
Really? This is official 2020 Game of the Year... while Ghost of Tsushima, for example, is not.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...r-or-not-it-deserved-it/?sh=14c09ec22895
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IztpAim5...Last-of-Us-2-Metacritic-User-Reviews.jpg
https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-last-of-us-part-ii
https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/ghost-of-tsushima
https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/god-of-war

Now TLoU2 has Metascore 93 (had 96 at some point) - from where? User Score 5.7 - clearly "adjusted" and not true, it was much much lower.

Ghost of Tsushima has Metascore 83(!!!) while User Score is 9.2(!!!), same as GOW (2018 GOTY), and it lost to TLoU2 garbage.

By real users it got honestly reviewed, but by "woke" game-jounalists and twitter it got praised. And, won GOTY. And what else developer who thinks about money and "good twitter publicity and reviews", but not players, need? Indeed.

And, it is quite disgusting how you try to just put some of the greatest stories with so many details, unique universes and characters to narrow "duh they are just old revenge and war" label, in mere disrespect... "set in a completely ultra conservative world"... To so disgustingly try to humiliate unique universes such as LoTR universe, which is absolutely unique (for its time) and free realm, that gave, for your information, base for Dungeons and Dragons universe BG3 is built on... disgusting.
TLoU2, by your logic is, as well, under the label of "revenge and war" story, but, seems like your argument shattered, and people didn't like it. But there is a great story, in the same universe - TLoU1, and it is indeed a great game, so your argument about "completely ultra conservative world" is shattered as well. Go read some books, before disrespecting the great.

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Chaotic Good; you are currently skating on the thin ice of a final warning, as well as drawing unwelcome attention to yourself for your comments upthread.

If you wish to remain part of these forums, I suggest you dial back the aggression and offensive insinuations.

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To an earlier mention of Minsc, who is our big n strong but not bright, beloved ranger, doesn't he hate Vampires so would he hate Astarion and have a similar dynamic that Shadowheart and Laezel have where the two hate whatever makes the other happy?

Last edited by CJMPinger; 20/02/21 02:57 PM.
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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
To an earlier mention of Minsc, who is our big n strong but not bright, beloved ranger, doesn't he hate Vampires so would he hate Astarion and have a similar dynamic that Shadowheart and Laezel have where the two hate whatever makes the other happy?

Maybe you will be forced to choose between Minsc and Astarion like you were forced to choose between Keldorn /Valygar and Viconia.

About the mentioned books: Lord of the rings was very progressive for its time and Tolkien singlehandedly made up many of the nowadays fantasy tropes. And Harry Potter and A Song of Ice and Fire are so much more than 'revenge and war stories'.

And yes for feeding goodberry pie to Boo for approval.

Last edited by fylimar; 20/02/21 03:06 PM.

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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
To an earlier mention of Minsc, who is our big n strong but not bright, beloved ranger, doesn't he hate Vampires so would he hate Astarion and have a similar dynamic that Shadowheart and Laezel have where the two hate whatever makes the other happy?

Maybe you will be forced to choose between Minsc and Astarion like you were forced to choose between Keldorn /Valygar and Viconia.

About the mentioned books: Lord of the rings was very progressive for its time and Tolkien singlehandedly made up many of the nowadays fantasy tropes. And Harry Potter and A Song of Ice and Fire are so much more than 'revenge and war stories'.

And yes for feeding goodberry pie to Boo for approval.

Hmm, maybe, though I would like to finagle them both in the party, however tenuous. I didn't really like the fight to the death mechanic in the first BG BUT having some more noticeable conflicts could be interesting, especially if there were ways to navigate those conflicts with and without rolling AND they could reveal things about the characters. Laezel and Shadowheart should probably have a full on confrontation at some point, perhaps over the artifact Shadowheart possesses or how BS the creche idea actually is.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
To an earlier mention of Minsc, who is our big n strong but not bright, beloved ranger, doesn't he hate Vampires so would he hate Astarion and have a similar dynamic that Shadowheart and Laezel have where the two hate whatever makes the other happy?

If I remember it correctly, in BG1 he had Gnolls as favoured enemy, and in BG2 he had Vampires. His reasons for that are long past, but he should still be quite unwelcoming of a Vampire in the party. If Astarion explains to Minsc that Vampire spawns are miniature Vampires not at all from the giant space, and thus not a danger, it may fly.


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Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
To an earlier mention of Minsc, who is our big n strong but not bright, beloved ranger, doesn't he hate Vampires so would he hate Astarion and have a similar dynamic that Shadowheart and Laezel have where the two hate whatever makes the other happy?

If I remember it correctly, in BG1 he had Gnolls as favoured enemy, and in BG2 he had Vampires. His reasons for that are long past, but he should still be quite unwelcoming of a Vampire in the party. If Astarion explains to Minsc that Vampire spawns are miniature Vampires not at all from the giant space, and thus not a danger, it may fly.

Dumb half joke for them to be more friendly:
Astarion seemingly out of character treats Boo really really nicely because he is actually a nice guy who likes hamsters and the two bond and become best buds (In minsc's eyes. In reality astarion was debating eating the little guy as a snack but now hes stuck hugged by the big brute and having to play it off.)

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Alright, let's put aside any insinuations of sexist undercurrents for a bit, decant some goodberry wine, share a slice of blue-veined cheese, pet our owlbears, hamsters, doggos and Abdiraks and take a deep breath.

It might be that the issue here is not one of taste, but of focus. Larian has released an EA full of rich, conflicted characters who do not fit any comfortable molds, much like their version of D&D and D&D mechanics is close to, but not exactly like what veteran players were expecting. They have also tried to replicate a situation where abducted strangers are forced to work together to survive, regardless of their personal motivations. And, most importantly, they have given the player the tools to explore and advance their relationship with their party members as they like (or not) --either through dialogue, cutscenes, mini-missions or their decisions during basic questing. This mirrors how the player can explore the land of Faerun and battle its foes; there are a million approaches, and you can even skip entire sections.

And, just like Act 1A is unfinished, the romance and relationship paths are not complete. We don't even have all the companions as of yet. And we don't know where they might lead, or even who these companions were before they were taken. Given the situation they are in, and knowing that all your friends can turn into a manipulating mindflayer at any time, wouldn't anyone be a bit off-putting, deffensive and paranoid? I know that I wouldn't want to get too attached, just in case, (Shadowheart) or that I would swing the other way and go all YOLO romping in the woods (Astarion). In the same way that you wouldn't expect a drow battalion to roll over and admit defeat as soon as you entered the Underdark, you shouldn't expect a person you met yesterday to trust you implicitly, particularly if you have the ability to mind-rape them or if they think that you might slaughter them if you suspect them of "changing" -- regardless of their / your gender.

So, in a way, BG3 is doing a pretty good job at presenting the player with a realistic scenario of what a group like this would be. And, in a way, gaining the trust of your companions is a quest in and of itself, albeit one that is going on in the background, a bit like the hidden ending of Silent Hill. Isn't trust that is gained instead of glibly given better than dev-dictated "niceness" for the sake of it? For a game like this, I very much prefer the route that Larian has chosen. It feels meatier and healthier.

On the other hand, I also love some good smexy fantasy time that is easy on the eyes and the mind -- but that's what VNs are for, chock-full of nice ladies, strong men and everything in between and ready to give me the snack that I want when I crave it. It's just that BG3 is not a VN.

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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
To an earlier mention of Minsc, who is our big n strong but not bright, beloved ranger, doesn't he hate Vampires so would he hate Astarion and have a similar dynamic that Shadowheart and Laezel have where the two hate whatever makes the other happy?

Maybe you will be forced to choose between Minsc and Astarion like you were forced to choose between Keldorn /Valygar and Viconia.

About the mentioned books: Lord of the rings was very progressive for its time and Tolkien singlehandedly made up many of the nowadays fantasy tropes. And Harry Potter and A Song of Ice and Fire are so much more than 'revenge and war stories'.

And yes for feeding goodberry pie to Boo for approval.

Can you make a pie? You only get 10 per day. And I always thought they were kinda small, you know like berries, otherwise they'd be a pain to carry around.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
To an earlier mention of Minsc, who is our big n strong but not bright, beloved ranger, doesn't he hate Vampires so would he hate Astarion and have a similar dynamic that Shadowheart and Laezel have where the two hate whatever makes the other happy?

Maybe you will be forced to choose between Minsc and Astarion like you were forced to choose between Keldorn /Valygar and Viconia.

About the mentioned books: Lord of the rings was very progressive for its time and Tolkien singlehandedly made up many of the nowadays fantasy tropes. And Harry Potter and A Song of Ice and Fire are so much more than 'revenge and war stories'.

And yes for feeding goodberry pie to Boo for approval.

Can you make a pie? You only get 10 per day. And I always thought they were kinda small, you know like berries, otherwise they'd be a pain to carry around.

But they would be big enough for Boo, I'm sure.

BeeBee :great post, I totally agree. But petting Abdirak might be painful...

Last edited by fylimar; 20/02/21 08:28 PM.

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Originally Posted by Chaotic Good
And, it is quite disgusting how you try to just put some of the greatest stories with so many details, unique universes and characters to narrow "duh they are just old revenge and war" label, in mere disrespect... "set in a completely ultra conservative world"

You completely misunderstood my point. To note that the large majority of bestsellers share common elements is not 'disrespectful' at all. It's simply an observation, without any kind of judgement.

And you can be sure that I like Lord of the Rings & Pride and Prejudice. Precisely because Aragorn is a hunk and Galadriel is cute.

Originally Posted by Chaotic Good
Really? This is official 2020 Game of the Year... while Ghost of Tsushima, for example, is not.

I'm pretty sure there are internal sales figures which precisely note how much more successful the game could have been if Joel was still alive. And I'm pretty sure the designers of Life is Strange 2 are sulking and blaming the players for their failure. As for Vampire Bloodlines, we'll have to wait and see.

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