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Originally Posted by Postwave
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
[quote=Sven_] I know Baldur's Gate is DnD and maybe in DnD the classes are different than in other fantasy settings. I'm new to DnD so I wouldn't know.


D&D Things!

The ranger in D&D is kind of a weird class. The architypical influence is probably Aragorn from Lord of the Rings -- wildernessy with survival and nature lore, and basic healing magic. Aragorn, of course, wields a sword not a bow. The 1st Edition AD&D had ranger as a subtype of fighter, with no particular weapons specialty. Over the years, though, rangers have become archers too. In recent editions of D&D (like, everything from Y2K forward), there are basically three main ranger paths:


  • archer
  • dual-wielding expert (probably because of this guy from Forgotten Realms novels: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Drizzt_Do%27Urden)
  • animal companion fighter (yeah, also that guy)


In 3.5, both rangers and druids could do the "animal buddy!" thing, with druids doing it better. In 5E, they've made druids focus on shapeshifting and left the animal companion to the ranger.

5E, unfortunately, does the class kind of badly, and the animal companion one (beast master) is horrific. This is one area where I don't mind some of Larian's tweaks. There was a Variant Ranger that WotC floated a year or two after 5E came out, but it's generally regarded as overcompensating, and anyway nothing really came of it. Kind of a shame.


Thank you. I appreciate the information. I know I still have a lot of researching to do...lol

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna

I feel like humans should get some type of perk just like other races have. Yes, humans have always been a jack of all trades but humans also have an unyielding spirit. They can incorporate something like that for Humans. I know DnD is different but it's still an fantasy rpg game. I don't know too much about tabletop DnD.

This exists in Eberron and it is as busted as I described. What would you propose for this unique racial feat that is unique, fits the race and is worth picking over other races while not being broken?


I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna

I feel like humans should get some type of perk just like other races have. Yes, humans have always been a jack of all trades but humans also have an unyielding spirit. They can incorporate something like that for Humans. I know DnD is different but it's still an fantasy rpg game. I don't know too much about tabletop DnD.

This exists in Eberron and it is as busted as I described. What would you propose for this unique racial feat that is unique, fits the race and is worth picking over other races while not being broken?


It doesn't have to be anything OP, just like how elves and other races can see in the dark or Tieflings has a resistance to fire. Humans can have some type of natural ability like a sixth sense, like in dialogue human can get the option of having better intuition.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna

I feel like humans should get some type of perk just like other races have. Yes, humans have always been a jack of all trades but humans also have an unyielding spirit. They can incorporate something like that for Humans. I know DnD is different but it's still an fantasy rpg game. I don't know too much about tabletop DnD.

This exists in Eberron and it is as busted as I described. What would you propose for this unique racial feat that is unique, fits the race and is worth picking over other races while not being broken?


It doesn't have to be anything OP, just like how elves and other races can see in the dark or Tieflings has a resistance to fire. Humans can have some type of natural ability like a sixth sense, like in dialogue human can get the option of having better intuition.

Better intuition than Elves that live lifespans much longer or Aasimar that have a divine guide? Remember they do not exist in a vacuum, it has to make sense in context.



I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna

I feel like humans should get some type of perk just like other races have. Yes, humans have always been a jack of all trades but humans also have an unyielding spirit. They can incorporate something like that for Humans. I know DnD is different but it's still an fantasy rpg game. I don't know too much about tabletop DnD.

This exists in Eberron and it is as busted as I described. What would you propose for this unique racial feat that is unique, fits the race and is worth picking over other races while not being broken?


It doesn't have to be anything OP, just like how elves and other races can see in the dark or Tieflings has a resistance to fire. Humans can have some type of natural ability like a sixth sense, like in dialogue human can get the option of having better intuition.

Better intuition than Elves that live lifespans much longer or Aasimar that have a divine guide? Remember they do not exist in a vacuum, it has to make sense in context.



Remember I'm new to DnD and it's lore. In all honesty, I'm going by what I know of rpgs in general.

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That's all fine and dandy I'm just trying to explain to you that this is not something that is easy to do without easily causing even more imbalance. DnD5e has been playtested for years by millions and no one has even come up with a satisfactory answer to this question.


I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
Let's be honest here...the races need some kind of rebalancing. Humans are terrible; so are halflings for example. Why not add something extra to them even if it is not officially in the player's handbook such as halfling luck being a +1 to any roll and humans getting extra proficiency points. Obviously not everyone is going to powerplay but it is only fair.


I agree with adding something extra to the races but I will say that I don't think Humans are terrible. Humans I think are the third after Orcs and Dwarves that make good warriors or fighters in rpgs. Instead of Humans having +1 on every stat, they should have a +2 on strength and constitution. Just like how other races have certain natural abilities like dark vision, resistance to fire, ect., Humans should have something as well. I know in DA:I, Humans get extra 2 points to add to their skill tree and Elves have a resistance to range damage. In Baldur's Gate 3 they can say add hit bonus point for Humans, maybe a +2 on a hit roll or something else.


Oh god adding HP bloat and statsticks to D&D? No thank you.

Human is meant to be a jack of all trades master of none kind of race. V.human are meant to be jack of all trades master of all. Other races are meant to be about their unique racial abilities such as Half-Orc racial that is broken with barbarian, paladin and fighter.


I feel like humans should get some type of perk just like other races have. Yes, humans have always been a jack of all trades but humans also have an unyielding spirit. They can incorporate something like that for Humans. I know DnD is different but it's still an fantasy rpg game. I don't know too much about tabletop DnD.


Don't be influenced too much by these min/maxers talking about what is optimal. This is a D&D computer game. There's no pvp and there's no uber raid bosses that require 20 people with optimal builds. Trust me, you'll do just fine with a human character.

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I really like the variant human, where you start with a bonus feat. There's also (in the add-on rulebook Xanathar's Guide) a specific feat which can only be taken by humans (and half-elves and half-orcs):


Prodigy

You have a knack for learning new things. You gain the following benefits:

You gain one skill proficiency of your choice, one tool proficiency of your choice, and fluency in one language of your choice.
Choose one skill in which you have proficiency. You gain expertise with that skill, which means your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make with it. The skill you choose must be one that isn’t already benefiting from a feature, such as Expertise, that doubles your proficiency bonus.


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@Osprey39
This is exactly what I have been saying, humans don't need to be changed. Don't lump me in with the munckins mate.


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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna


Remember I'm new to DnD and it's lore. In all honesty, I'm going by what I know of rpgs in general.



Don't let it get to you. This is a already answered question. As we already know what is added to humans to make them balanced. It's called Variant human and they can choose one feat at character creation. It's in the tabletop version and no reason it shouldn't be here as well. Particularly with how necessary Darkvision is.

Last edited by Spideyknight; 19/10/20 11:16 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
Let's be honest here...the races need some kind of rebalancing. Humans are terrible; so are halflings for example. Why not add something extra to them even if it is not officially in the player's handbook such as halfling luck being a +1 to any roll and humans getting extra proficiency points. Obviously not everyone is going to powerplay but it is only fair.

Couldn't disagree more; the +6 Ability score bonus non-variant humans get is unmatched by any other race. This can be particularly useful when building characters who want to put points into many different stats, e.g. paladins. Just because these classes don't exist in-game currently doesn't make humans weak. In fact, humans aren't a poor choice for some of the classes currently in-game either, such as a hunter-type ranger. A strongheart halfling is also an excellent choices for ranged classes that would be made beefier by the bonuses to AC, HP, and poison resistance (e.g. wizards and hunter-type rangers). They would also be among the top choices for lightly- and moderately-armored fronliners like monks and barbarians.

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Originally Posted by Spideyknight
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna


Remember I'm new to DnD and it's lore. In all honesty, I'm going by what I know of rpgs in general.



Don't let it get to you. This is a already answered question. As we already know what is added to humans to make them balanced. It's called Variant human and they can choose one feat at character creation. It's in the tabletop version and no reason it shouldn't be here as well. Particularly with how necessary Darkvision is.


Thank you. I appreciate your response.

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Originally Posted by Argonaut
@Osprey39
This is exactly what I have been saying, humans don't need to be changed. Don't lump me in with the munckins mate.


I didn't call anyone out by name my friend. No need to take offense.

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I hated feeling railroaded into playing humans in the earlier BGs, due to dual classing. I certainly hope they don't' do the same in BG 3.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I feel like humans should get some type of perk just like other races have. Yes, humans have always been a jack of all trades but humans also have an unyielding spirit. They can incorporate something like that for Humans. I know DnD is different but it's still an fantasy rpg game. I don't know too much about tabletop DnD.

The options for creating humans in the D&D 5e rules are twofold:

Option 1: +1 o all ability scores; extra language.

Option 2: +1 to two different ability scores (of your choice); 1 Skill proficiency; 1 Feat.

Note that Feats in 5e are generally more potent than in 3e/3.5e because they tend to be less common and often include a single stat increase. I've listed a few examples below; there are not so many as were featured in earlier editions, but enough to be interesting no matter what playing or character style you adopt. Some would be harder to adapt to a CRPG than others, but I would be interested for Larian to implement Feats and the alternate human build.

-------------------------------------------

ALERT
Always on the lookout for danger, you gain the following benefits:
You gain a +5 bonus to initiative.
You can’t be surprised while you are conscious.
Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you.

ATHLETE
You have undergone extensive physical training to gain the following benefits:
Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
When you are prone, standing up uses only 5 feet of your movement.
Climbing doesn’t halve your speed.
You can make a running long jump or a running high jump after moving only 5 feet on foot, rather than 10 feet.

MAGIC INITIATE
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class’s spell list.
In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again.
Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid: or Intelligence for wizard.

RESILIENT
Choose one ability score. You gain the following benefits:
Increase the chosen ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You gain proficiency in saving throws using the chosen ability.

TOUGH
Your hit point maximum increases by an amount equal to twice your level when you gain this feat. Whenever you gain a level thereafter, your hit point maximum increases by an additional 2 hit points.

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Originally Posted by Imryll
I hated feeling railroaded into playing humans in the earlier BGs, due to dual classing. I certainly hope they don't' do the same in BG 3.


From what I understand there is no difference between dual- and multiclassing in 5e, and it doesn't seem to be restricted to race or class combination.

Multiclassing works pretty much the same as dual-classing did in BG2 in the sense that you need to meet a main stat requirement, in this case a min ability score of 13, but the system is way more flexible. Multiclassing in 5e is described as (paraphrasing): On every level up you choose which class you will gain a level in. The combined level of all you classes defines your current character level. So it's pretty much a very flexible dual-class, where you pick how and when you want to gain levels in your repecttive classes. In BG2 you would level up, as a multiclasses, simultaneously but slower and, as a dual class, you were forced to choose when to dual and then gimp yourself for a long time before you regained the level in your new class.

We have the opportunity to play around with multiple classes at once in the EA version, as the game lets you choose to gain basic understanding of an off-class as an option every 4th level. I have no idea if this is Larians interpretation of multiclassing or if this as entirely different option covered by some other part of the rulebook.

If anything needs to be corrected, or can be expanded, feel free to do so if you're more experienced or knowledgeable.

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Yes, the terms 'multi-' and 'dual-' classing are somewhat irrelevant in 5e (and ever since 3e). You choose a class that you qualify for at each level, there is no statistic limitation but you need to meet any other requirements such as alignment. If you really want to play a Fighter-Wizard with 8 INT and 8 STR then you can. (EDIT: Turns out I am wrong here. You need a minimum 13 in the appropriate stats to qualify for a class, and 13 in both qualifying stats to multiclass. That's what comes of house-ruling too long).

You take all the 1st-level powers listed for the new class (not necessarily the same as a starting character of that class). Your character level then become the sum of all levels you have taken (so a 2nd level cleric/ 4th level fighter would have a character level of 6), but your class level is how ever many levels you have taken in the class in question (this determines such things as a wizard's spells). Some powers, such as Proficiency bonus, work off of the character level, and some off of the class level.

This method gives you a wider skill and power base, but you need to be wary of class restrictions such as wearing armour when casting wizard spells; something to consider before moving from an armoured class to to an arcane magic one.

Last edited by Sadurian; 20/10/20 01:48 PM. Reason: I was wrong.... on the internet!!!
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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I feel like humans should get some type of perk just like other races have. Yes, humans have always been a jack of all trades but humans also have an unyielding spirit. They can incorporate something like that for Humans. I know DnD is different but it's still an fantasy rpg game. I don't know too much about tabletop DnD.

The options for creating humans in the D&D 5e rules are twofold:

Option 1: +1 o all ability scores; extra language.

Option 2: +1 to two different ability scores (of your choice); 1 Skill proficiency; 1 Feat.

Note that Feats in 5e are generally more potent than in 3e/3.5e because they tend to be less common and often include a single stat increase. I've listed a few examples below; there are not so many as were featured in earlier editions, but enough to be interesting no matter what playing or character style you adopt. Some would be harder to adapt to a CRPG than others, but I would be interested for Larian to implement Feats and the alternate human build.

-------------------------------------------

ALERT
Always on the lookout for danger, you gain the following benefits:
You gain a +5 bonus to initiative.
You can’t be surprised while you are conscious.
Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you.

ATHLETE
You have undergone extensive physical training to gain the following benefits:
Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
When you are prone, standing up uses only 5 feet of your movement.
Climbing doesn’t halve your speed.
You can make a running long jump or a running high jump after moving only 5 feet on foot, rather than 10 feet.

MAGIC INITIATE
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class’s spell list.
In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again.
Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid: or Intelligence for wizard.

RESILIENT
Choose one ability score. You gain the following benefits:
Increase the chosen ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You gain proficiency in saving throws using the chosen ability.

TOUGH
Your hit point maximum increases by an amount equal to twice your level when you gain this feat. Whenever you gain a level thereafter, your hit point maximum increases by an additional 2 hit points.


Thank you so much for your examples. I appreciate the help.

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Generally it makes sense, as they are fantasy races with objective innate differences between them. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and could lead to interesting roleplaying choices. A great example from the game itself is the ogre with the intelligence circlet


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Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
Let's be honest here...the races need some kind of rebalancing. Humans are terrible; so are halflings for example. Why not add something extra to them even if it is not officially in the player's handbook such as halfling luck being a +1 to any roll and humans getting extra proficiency points. Obviously not everyone is going to powerplay but it is only fair.

We must be playing different games! How are Humans and Halflings terrible? The latter have the Lucky trait which is the best racial trait in all of DnD-dom. Humans are as they should be: Flexible and pretty good at everything. Variant humans not only break with the philosophy about human being the all-rounders, they are also blatantly OVERPOWERED and pretty much becomes the best at everything (at least in the early levels).

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