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The 2nd Sundering was an attempt by WOTC to rectify changes they made over the years but there is still a lot of confusion in the air; virtually all the old gods are "back" but what does that mean?

For example: Kelemvor is still the nominal Lord of the Dead but Myrkul is back as well? Is he an actual deity because Ao's rule still applies; no two gods may hold the same office (portfolio), exception being quasi-deities and demigods. Is the current incarnation of Myrkul therefore a demigod, a quasi-deity? Is Bhaal also just a very powerful mortal by these lights? and what of Bane. I have yet to discover material that goes into any detail on these matters, a line here, a line there, but nothing concrete of substantial or am I just missing something? Any information would be appreciated.

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I don't think there is a clear answer. WOTC radically shifted how they made sourcebooks after 3.5 edition and they've deliberately shied away from being thorough at filling in the gaps in the lore since then. You may have to take whatever you can piece together from the adventure modules, online stuff, and the few novels they still print.

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Bane has been back since 1372 and is going strong.
Bhaal has been resurrected after BG2 character died and released all othe Bhaalspawn essences, allowing them to erm...coalesce
Myrkul is also back, and now shares his domain with Jergal (funny enough)...and ultimately serves Kelemvor


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Originally Posted by Zzdtri
Bane has been back since 1372 and is going strong.
Bhaal has been resurrected after BG2 character died and released all othe Bhaalspawn essences, allowing them to erm...coalesce
Myrkul is also back, and now shares his domain with Jergal (funny enough)...and ultimately serves Kelemvor



But what is their deific status? Is Bane a greater power? and what of the others?

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Originally Posted by Jayce
I don't think there is a clear answer. WOTC radically shifted how they made sourcebooks after 3.5 edition and they've deliberately shied away from being thorough at filling in the gaps in the lore since then. You may have to take whatever you can piece together from the adventure modules, online stuff, and the few novels they still print.


They figured out that they can sell books while only doing half the work by rebranding laziness and their inability to make a good plot as "DM freedom" and have their fanboys defend them.

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In this talk with one of the writers at WOTC last year (chris perkins), he talks about the status of Bhaal, Myrkhul, and Bane since the Second Sundering -- they are now mortal beings who are killable because they refused to stop meddling in Faerun --- (start @ 20 min in) https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/dratalk_arnieniekamp

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He states that "they're less powerful than gods". On the other hand, all three are able to be chosen as cleric deities in the game...which means they must be still divine. it's pretty confusing. So they're not gods but divine? Quasi-gods?

so I'm not sure what they're trying to do. If they're already divine, then they're not trying to attain godhood. But on the other hand they're mortal and killable...

Last edited by dza101; 20/10/20 12:02 PM.
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What that writer is saying doesn't match what they are going on in their settings since 4e.

Bane came back pre-Spellplague, took back all his followers and power and then even added on top of it by conquering the goblinoids pantheon.

Myrkul is a minor god serving Kelemvor now.

Bhaal came back and reclaimed the murder domain from Cyric (who was trapped for 1000 years as punishment for the Spellplague) effectively making him a good again. This was mentioned in the Sword Coast Adventure supplement for 5e.


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He is stating what's the current state post 1487. Yeah, Bane came back much earlier on, but at the end of the second sundering (post 1487), along with Bhaal and Myrkhul, who both came back more recently, they were made to walk on Faerun as mortal beings.

Last edited by dza101; 20/10/20 12:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by dza101
He states that "they're less powerful than gods". On the other hand, all three are able to be chosen as cleric deities in the game...which means they must be still divine. it's pretty confusing. So they're not gods but divine? Quasi-gods?

so I'm not sure what they're trying to do. If they're already divine, then they're not trying to attain godhood. But on the other hand they're mortal and killable...


Well, at least in BG3, I've found several books describing the deity system, some in the grove, some in Shattered Sanctuary. Bane is clearly discussed in the book I found in the Druid Grove, I don't remember if Bhaal was in that book. Also, AO wasn't discussed, as I recall. It could also be that these entities are trying to return to their divine statuses, and at the moment are available as both quasi-deities and pact creatures...are they available for Warlock pacts?

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Originally Posted by dza101


In this talk with one of the writers at WOTC last year (chris perkins), he talks about the status of Bhaal, Myrkhul, and Bane since the Second Sundering -- they are now mortal beings who are killable because they refused to stop meddling in Faerun --- (start @ 20 min in) https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/dratalk_arnieniekamp



Huh...I did not know that one. I was going by what I remember reading. You live and learn.

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In the Descent into Avernus book, it states:

"While the Sundering saw the other gods of the FR withdraw their direct influence from the world, the Dead Three remained behind in mortal form as quasi-divine beings. While their power has diminished, they remain a formidable trio and play a malevolent role in influencing events on Faerun" p. 232.

The sundering ended about 5 years before the game is set. So it's all pretty recent in the timeline.

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If Bane was a greater power still why on Toril would he relinquish that to be a suped up mortal? Unless Ao forced him and the others into that status. I sort of stopped paying attention after 3.5 and it seems like WOTC have gotten lazy and sloppy in their narrative.

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They're dead, Dave. They're all dead.

... ish.

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Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
If Bane was a greater power still why on Toril would he relinquish that to be a suped up mortal? Unless Ao forced him and the others into that status. I sort of stopped paying attention after 3.5 and it seems like WOTC have gotten lazy and sloppy in their narrative.


There basically is no narrative anymore since WotC stopped making FR books.

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Originally Posted by gish
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
If Bane was a greater power still why on Toril would he relinquish that to be a suped up mortal? Unless Ao forced him and the others into that status. I sort of stopped paying attention after 3.5 and it seems like WOTC have gotten lazy and sloppy in their narrative.


There basically is no narrative anymore since WotC stopped making FR books.



Wait, they don't make ANY more FR books?

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A press release mentions that GIANT SPOILER

a complot of the dead three is going on during BG3

Last edited by ArmouredHedgehog; 20/10/20 06:40 PM.

I sometimes use thought experiments. I don't necessarily believe in every idea I post for discussion on this forum
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Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
If Bane was a greater power still why on Toril would he relinquish that to be a suped up mortal? Unless Ao forced him and the others into that status. I sort of stopped paying attention after 3.5 and it seems like WOTC have gotten lazy and sloppy in their narrative.



I think the idea is that the dead three refused to stop meddling with affairs on faerun after Ao decreed that the gods are supposed to withdraw and no longer directly intervene in the affairs of mortals. Thus Ao made them mortal.

I suspect the scant info on this available is because it's going to developed in this game itself. I suspect the appearance of the dead three in Descent into Avernus was purely to help set the stage for BG3.

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I suspect that the game's gonna involve intrigue between the diff gods. And we'll be given the choice to aid the dead 3 or try to stop them.

AAA game means AAA storyline I guess.


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