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Actually I like this composition a lot and it matches story for me well so far as for just Act 1. We aren't talking about not normally established party with common enemy or some higher goal, but bunch of random people joined by force, so using other to survive makes sense here. Also I like they fact that is seems you action will effect companions and theirs way of thinking if they stay with you. Add occasional fights between them and potential betrayal and it will be set.

Right now we have like 3 "Neutral" characters:
Gale- overall good guy, but his too strict devotion to his Goddess may push him either way.
Wyll- once again overall good guy, but his haves no problems to justify something bad if it only matches his goals + his backstory.
Shadowheart- probably the best companion right now for me. At start and first glance just opportunist characters, but every now and then she shows her true feelings. Like after Druid Grove fight where joining different sides show how she feels about it. Also hints in her story about Shar and Selûne conflict and her being involved are very interesting and should be at least good later on- will elaborate on it in my opinion about EA in different topic as it's heavy spoilers .

Also 2 "Evil" companions:
Lae'zel- she is pretty much how she should be. She thinks that she and her race is superior and is centred about her mission and whole believes. I also enjoy when she is angry when you want to kill/stop something bad/not related to her goals and you can just bait her with something like "Well, warrior like you will pass this opportunity to hunt the xyz ?
Astarion- he is fun character. He want to be free and do stupid things. Wonder what they will do with him later on.

As for base "good" characters I hope when they will add them the won't end up like some shadow of characters that only follow some code or something- one dimensional NPC. I think not using Alignment system is good idea here, as in most cases it ends up with just some extra lines and overall nonsense to justify it. Like in Pathfinder: Kingmaker where some decisions left for player and NPC actions related to it were so bad that it seemed more like parody then anything else.

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Actually, one friend watching me said at one point: "How does Shar keep managing to get nice people following her?" To which I had to remind her that this is the same goddess that almost absorbed Sharess during a centuries long dalliance between the two and has impersonated Selune several times and luring aside her sister's worshippers that way.

She's very good at misrepresenting herself to the people she plans on wringing dry.

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By D&D logic Wyll is not evil. Just because he is a fiend Patron does not make the warlock evil. You can still have a warlock that leans more over to good.

Also, the warlock could be rebelling or has already rebelled from their patron.

Unlike clerics, their power does not get just "taken away" in most cases, i've seen. All in all, he would most likely be in my party for a good playthrough.

Last edited by VhexLambda; 22/10/20 09:15 PM.

Let's get XP for peaceful resolutions, Nobody likes a murder hobo!!
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Originally Posted by VhexLambda
By D&D logic Wyll is not evil. Just because he is a fiend Patron does not make the warlock evil. You can still have a warlock that leans more over to good.

Also, the warlock could be rebelling or has already rebelled from their patron.

Unlike clerics, their power does not get just "taken away" in most cases, i've seen. All in all, he would most likely be in my party for a good playthrough.


It looks like they've walked away from the loss of power when displeasing god/patron in general in 5e. Individual GMs still do that, of course. But the fluff with clerics these days is that the gods teach how to access divine power rather than acting as the conduit. So you could have a cleric turn aside from their god and still keep their powers....by default.

That allows for some stories that wouldn't otherwise make sense. For example, how the King-Priest of Ishtar kept his powers even though the gods were trying to stop him. Other powered heretics are similarly possible under that lore. Though it does the power loss and redemption story arcs (though personally I feel like those work better as fiction storylines than as gameplay ones) and you can replace power-loss and redemption with fugitive/trial/redemption or even remaking the mortal religion of the god.

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Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by Demoulius
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by Abits
[quote=Merry Mayhem]
[quote=Demoulius]That you patron is evil doesent male you evil though...


Check the post, I did say that.

You did say that. And I disagree with it. Warlock patrons are a means to an end. Warlocks crave power and found sources outside of gods or arcane magic to supply it to them.

They generally have a price associated with it though. Which if you have talked a little to Wyll you will find out he clearly doesent want to pay. That in itself doesent make him not-evil but the fact that he wants to do good, be a hero and help those in need would make him non-evil.

Unless he suddenly goes full murderhobo when you go outside of EA area but I dont see that happening tbh.



I'm confused.... I've said that Wyll leans good and that an evil-patron does not mean the warlock is evil.

You say you disagree and then you say the same things I did.

Isn't that an agreement.

Derp. Had to read the post a third time. You did say that. I misread the sentance, Fiends themselves are indeed all evil.

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Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Actually, one friend watching me said at one point: "How does Shar keep managing to get nice people following her?" To which I had to remind her that this is the same goddess that almost absorbed Sharess during a centuries long dalliance between the two and has impersonated Selune several times and luring aside her sister's worshippers that way.

She's very good at misrepresenting herself to the people she plans on wringing dry.


And evil gods prey on people's desire for revenge and the like. I love this scene in Rome where Servilia decides to devote herself to the gods the underworld, revenge and (ill) fortune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC75FdTL2DM

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I have a minor issue with that in that of all the Theoi, Hades and Persephone feel like the most trustworthy, even if Hades is grim. They at least follow their own rules.

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Originally Posted by DZs7
Actually I like this composition a lot and it matches story for me well so far as for just Act 1. We aren't talking about not normally established party with common enemy or some higher goal, but bunch of random people joined by force, so using other to survive makes sense here. Also I like they fact that is seems you action will effect companions and theirs thinks if they stay with you. Add occasional fights between them and potential betrayal al and it will be set.

Right now we have like 3 "Neutral" characters:
Gale- overall good guy, but his too strict devotion to his Goddess may push him either way.
Wyll- once again overall good guy, but his haves no problems to justify something bad if it only matches his goals + his backstory.
Shadowheart- probably the best companion right now for me. At start and first glance just opportunist characters, but every now and then she shows her true feelings. Like after Druid Grove fight where joining different sides show how she feels about it. Also hints in her story about Shar and Selûne conflict and her being involved are very interesting and should be at least good later on- will elaborate on it in my opinion about EA in different topic as it's heavy spoilers .

Also 2 "Evil" companions:
Lae'zel- she is pretty much how she should be. She thinks that she and her race is superior and is centred about her mission and whole believes. I also enjoy when she is angry when you want to kill/stop something bad/not related to her goals and you can just bait her with something like "Well, warrior like you will pass this opportunity to hunt the xyz ?
Astarion- he is fun character. He want to be free and do stupid things. Wonder what they will do with him later on.

As for base "good" characters I hope when they will add them the won't end up like some shadow of characters that only follow some code or something- one dimensional NPC. I think not using Alignment system is good idea here, as in most cases it ends up with just some extra lines and overall nonsense to justify it. Like in Pathfinder: Kingmaker where some decisions left for player and NPC actions related to it were so bad that it seemed more like parody then anything else.

The Githyanki are basically Nazi's, or maybe the imperial Japanese. It's just that their chosen victims (mind flayers) really are evil, and they aren't the dominate race on Faerun. But autocratic society? Power-hungry? Racially stratified? Yup! Given that, it's not odd that she's evil, which she clearly is.

Astarion is actually my second favorite, after Wyll-because companions which do stupid, dumb, dangerous, idiotic, suicidal, things are actually great. If you want to challenge a player, have the companion push them to do idiotic things to impress them-which bot Astarion and Wyll seem to tend to (that godsforsaken windmill fight...)

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Gale: I don't want to give him anything, or worry about having to give him anything
Shadowheart: wont' sleep with me and I don't care for her issues enough to keep trying
Wyll: party was full but in another playthrough he seems aaaight and not annoying
Lae'zel: queen B but tolerable for some reason and not a little B like Shadowheart
Astarion: makes me feel uncomfortable - suxually

Where is Imoen? I liked her.. she was chipper and uplifting.

You know who seems cool? Halsin. Why the hell can't he join because having him would be fantastic. He does not strike me as a whiner or some overbearing ass. Just a strong companion that can kick ass and chew bubblegum.

Last edited by cgexile; 22/10/20 10:07 PM.
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I can tell you, I am certainly in the corner of wanting Alfira to be the bard companion.

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Originally Posted by cgexile
You know who seems cool? Halsin. Why the hell can't he join because having him would be fantastic. He does not strike me as a whiner or some overbearing ass. Just a strong companion that can kick ass and chew bubblegum.


I expect it's because Druids are not playable yet though I expect Larian will give us Kagda as our Druid companion. wink

Last edited by Merry Mayhem; 22/10/20 10:16 PM.
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Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
Originally Posted by cgexile
You know who seems cool? Halsin. Why the hell can't he join because having him would be fantastic. He does not strike me as a whiner or some overbearing ass. Just a strong companion that can kick ass and chew bubblegum.


I expect it's because Druids are not playable yet though I expect Larian will give us Kagda as our Druid companion. wink


I think Halsin/Drow will be potential secondary companions that will mostly stay in the camp with some role in game mechanic and will join party with some quests.
Kagda seems like nice potential companion with self redemption quest. However, I think they will leave some for Act 2 if we think there will be like 8+ companions. So getting all in Act 1 would be a bit strange.

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Originally Posted by Demoulius
That you patron is evil doesent male you evil though...

Does to me.

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I see Shadowheart as the evil one and if anything Lae'zel as the neutral one.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I see Shadowheart as the evil one and if anything Lae'zel as the neutral one.


I can't stand her. I gave Derryth my Noblestock after I initially refused so that she spills the beans on why she wants it; for her shop in Baldur's Gate (and said she will repay once I visit/get there), and Shadowheart "disapproved" me handing it over. Like wtf? No one else had a reaction to this kind action.

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Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.


I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.
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Shadowheart doesent strike me as evil but she does strike me as a massive A-hole.

I only passed a few tests with her and EVERY time I intereact with her I get buried under tests rather then just getting a chance to talk to her. I did manage to convince her to tell me she follows Shar and thats kinda it.

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So I was at the party after druid cove quest and talked to my companions.
Shadowheart was totally pissed (as she reacted negative to every single good decision I've made so far) and my only thought was "I don't care about your utterly bad "I'm so evil" writing anyway, you gonna die soon."
Also Lazael was pissed and ranted about I could never kiss her or something (which I didn't even imply) and I was like "STFU dumb frogface cunt, I don't care about you and your story and well-being anyway".
None of the companions really interest me with their over-acting and over the top mystery backgrounds.
Best would be to kill them all off after act 1.

Last edited by Grantig; 23/10/20 12:08 PM.
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+1

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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.

Well put.

And for all the talk of: "the good companions are coming later," the possible additional companions don't seem very "good" either with the exception of one certain individual. Seems like Larian's message here is: If you want to have a good-aligned party, you have to go with a custom party. But that is so wrong in a party-based cRPG.

Last edited by kanisatha; 23/10/20 03:25 PM.
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