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OP's feelings that constantly missing for 0 damage is not fun *is* a valid criticism and valuable feedback. If they are not having fun, then they are not having fun. Period. They should be able to play a game where they miss less, and others should be able to play a game that holds more strictly to 5e rules.

This would be sooo easy to implement using different difficulties:
1.) Story Mode: Enemy AC and Saves are reduced by 5 across the board. Weight player dice rolls (e.g., always roll another d20 under the hood and use that if higher). Allow all the opportunities for advantage that are currently in the game.
2.) Normal Mode: Enemy AC and Saves are reduced by 2 across the board. Height and backstabbing still give advantage, etc. Implement pseudo-randomness, where rolling a number makes it less likely to be rolled next time.
3.) Hard: Play the game using 5e RAW, except still allowing height gives +2 to attack. Maybe leave in backstabbing (or flanking) but as +2 bonuses. Shove and hide are normal actions. Jump provokes AoO. No dice-weighting.
4.) Tactician: Enemies are stronger, +HP, +AC, +Saves. (Importantly, to preserve class-balance, any AC change also has to affect Saving Throws)

Alternatively, an even simpler solution is to adjust only enemy AC and saves for each difficulty level. If you're frustrated with missing too much, you should be able to drop down a difficulty level and hit more often. But this still allows players who want to play 5e RAW to play 5e RAW.

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Originally Posted by SymposiumX
You may have your opinion, but that sounds like a horrible and boring game to me.

And you'd never have to play it because, for the umpteenth time, I've suggested people be allowed to configure their own game. Wow, imagine that - a democratic solution.

I feel like even mentioning this D&D thing might be a bit dull is like telling a religious fanatic their god isn't quite what it's cracked up to be. I mean, am I going to get bombed now by one of these D&D lads?

It's a bloody game. Let people play it whatever way they like.

Originally Posted by Labayu
I can't tell if anyone is actually upset.It's just that your request is nonsense in any system even resembling DnD rules. That said, I assume there will be some sort of super easy mode in which the player gets a big bonus on hit chance.


People are generally considered 'upset' when they can't counter with a neutral comment and have to resort to emotive, defensive language that resists any other point of view but their own. In other words, writing something like 'It's just that your request is nonsense in any system even resembling DnD rules'.

I've already said the game is not made difficult by misses. I mostly breezed through the entire thing, no sweat broken. I'm just saying I nearly fell asleep watching a chain of me missing, enemy missing, me missing, enemy missing. Turn based is slow enough.

If people think it'll create some imbalance (I personally don't) then just leave the default miss feature on and forget you can even turn it off.


Last edited by roo3030; 23/10/20 04:30 PM.
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Mistake please delete

Last edited by Abits; 23/10/20 04:33 PM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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OP feedback is valid.

I think some of the more agitated D&D savants keep forgetting that this game is not only for a small elite group of D&D practitioners. There is nothing wrong with a person who is not living and breathing D&D picking this game and balking at the inherent built-in systematic wild RNG of D&D, which IMO does not translate well into turn-based video games for all.

All in all, I definitely can say that for normal mode we're playing and the mode most people are expected to hit - some of the missing is a tad excessive even with AC adjusted as is. I think it would be completely fine if they make another pass at it and even maybe add some sort of mechanic where if your team is obviously winning encounter, then the enemy just gets AC slashed with some sort of morale penalty, just so you won't burn another pointless 5 minutes mopping them up, like in OP's example.

And I also don't think it's such an evil to ask for basically what Pathfinder: Kingmaker did with Custom difficulty, where you can flip some switches to affect quite a lot of parameters too.

---

For people who want more difficulty and more D&D goodness - they can absolutely introduce that in higher difficulty modes or again mentioned above flexible difficulty as in Pathfinder.

This way everyone is happy really.

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I don't think the issue is people holding the D&D 5E rules to BG3 strictly. The issue is Larian advertised and said several times that BG3 is going to be a game set in D&D, using as much of the 5E rules as the game engine could possibly allow. Larian bought the Baldur's Gate and Dungeons & Dragons license from Wizards of the Coast in order to even make this game, let alone use all the officially named races, deities, NPCs, and so many other things, that demanding they essentially break the setting/contract to make a non-D&D 5E game just because you don't like or understand how the rules translate into a video game just seems... childish to me. And yes, you can play BG3 with your friends, so the statement of how you can't even joke about and riff on your friends for missing constantly is a hugely moot point, even in EA, though I haven't had the opportunity myself to play said multiplayer yet, sadly.

I'm sorry you don't seem to enjoy the game so far, but it was always advertised, marketed, and talked about as a turn based 5E D&D game, so you should have actually listened and paid attention to that, and maybe done some research on how 5E D&D works, especially combat, before going into things with an assumption of how the game should be played. (It's not DOS2, and I hope it never strays closer to being more like that title, but I have no faith in companies.)

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Originally Posted by roo3030
If people think it'll create some imbalance (I personally don't) then just leave the default miss feature on and forget you can even turn it off.
That it would create an imbalance isn't really what they were saying, it's that it would make armor, shields, strength, dexterity and every aspect of level advancement (other than hit points) irrelevant in combat. In other words, it would make it not a D&D game when it comes to combat. Maybe it would be a win/win for Larian to make a non-D&D mode and a more legit 5e D&D mode. Although the former seems sort of silly in a D&D game, but whatever.

Last edited by Labayu; 23/10/20 05:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by roo3030
I just think some people could care less if it's D&D, and some people obviously care very deeply if it's D&D. And both should have the options to make the game more or less D&D with a few simple configuration options at the start of the game.

I mean, some people are clearly not happy with anything in the game being D&D. So maybe give them the option to force the game to be more like how they would see it - again, as long it's all about choice.


I'm a big believer in player choice, but some things just aren't practical. The problem with offering an alternative combat system is opportunity cost, the developer hours it would take to not just program but completely balance and play-test the alternative system.

The D&D ruleset is already very complicated to program in a computer game, especially with regard to good enemy AI that knows how to use the rules effectively. Do we want the Larian devs spending more time programming an alternate ruleset and AI system, or spending that time to flesh out and quash bugs in the existing combat system? I'd prefer the latter, because I think we'll end up with a better game in the long run.

P.S. I still believe that many of the complaints about misses (not necessarily yours) are a result of players not understanding how Advantage-Disadvantage works in the game, especially with height differences. One thing the AI is really good at, is trying to use the height advantage to influence getting a better dice roll, and forcing the player group into a worse one.

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OP your story simply doesent add up. First of all you already admit that you dont know the rules. Yet you want to make a massive overhaul to these rules that completly negates about half of the class features, spells and abilities that are in the game.

Its not about 'not adding more choice' but rather its about the fact that you fundementaly do not know what you are talking about. Maybe read up on the rules before you make suggestions to change parts of them.

And its nice that you passed the game without dying once. Seems legit. Considering the encounters amd rng in tje game pardon me if I press X to doubt that fact 😂

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IDK, to be on the OP's side for a second. What if they implemented a story mode where the player always hits and the enemies have a -4 to their rolling... That way super casual people can enjoy the game???

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Something closer to this is doable. Normal difficulty should be 5e rules, hard/tactician something along the lines of what you stated, and Story Mode gives you an option to hit that prompts “rout/end battle” where the party automatically kill off/subdue the remaining combatants. This would address what some feel is the boring/inevitable waiting round after round to strike that final blow to finish off a lone goblin.

I’d rather that, than trying to divide development time and resources creating a whole new battle mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Mezbarrena
IDK, to be on the OP's side for a second. What if they implemented a story mode where the player always hits and the enemies have a -4 to their rolling... That way super casual people can enjoy the game???

I think I heard from people who participated in the DOS II EA that that difficulty during that EA was 1 of the more higher difficulties. So 'normal' should be alot easier then EA currently is.

If people want a super kiddy friendly mode that doesent let you fail id.....id have no problem with it. And at the same time id question its excistance. I cannot comprehend that people are so casual that they do not want challenge. If you dont want challenge then why pick up a game at all? I just dont understand that mindset. But again, so long as its optional id have no problem with it either.

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Instead of insisting on my view being right and anyone else's being 'stupid' or 'nonsense', my thing has always been giving people choice. The beauty of that is everyone wins. And when everyone wins, you win - you get the bigger pay cheques, you attract the hotter girls. It's like life just hands you all the nice things on a plate for simply not having your head up your arse hole.

Yeah, I build things with code for a living, so I know that what I'm suggesting wouldn't involve a colossal commitment in man hours. Eg - the diehard D&D types get their D&D rules as priority. This is the default game, play tested etc. The 'game configuration' options would be an experimental feature that wouldn't guarantee an ideal experience. But the user can take the risk if they want. The code change I'm suggesting couldn't possibly be anything more significant than if (!gameConfig.missIsActive) { this.activateMiss = false; }. It's only a basic check, right?

Additionally my remarks around the 'missing' feature are only a small portion of my critique. I've no idea what D&D is about (incredibly, you're not supposed to in order to play the game), but I have said that the majority of changes to Larian's turn-based formula have worked brilliantly. The classes are far more balanced. The combat is more interesting. Everything seems to click, until you see a seemingly infinite loop of miss, miss, miss, critical miss.

It didn't seem so snooze-worthy until I'd seen too many of them halfway through the game and just thought, man this is killing the buzz.

What is the problem with letting people disable this 'feature' if you never have to do it yourself? I can't wrap my head around why even suggesting giving people the choice to play a non-D&D version of the game encourages such obstinate vitriol.

BTW, there's surely a way to export data on your game play - if someone can point me in the right direction, I'd be happy to share the stats around my death rate etc which I can 100% guarantee are what I said they are.

Last edited by roo3030; 23/10/20 08:12 PM.
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Considering you can quikload if a battle isent turning into your favour even if the rate is 0 it wouldnt say much....

You dont understand what point we are making and just keep saying that you want to add choice to the game. Seriously. Stop. You dont know the rules and I can guarrantee that if you miss as many times in a row as you did 1 of 2 scenarios are in effect:

1: You were just unlucky. Buttom right corner of the screen you can click to expand a combat log. If you miss you can check your dice rolls. See if you had advantage or disadvantage etc etc. That said its a game revolving around dice. It happens.
2: Your team was afflicted by disadvantage or something simular causing many attacks to miss.

You are also completly ignoring something else that can solve your problem. There are attacks that dont need a roll to hit and hit automaticly. Some of the options are even AOE attacks.

Spells like magic missle, fireball (not in the game yet, but a third level spell), consumables like bombs etc etc all hit AUTOMATICLY. You are so focused on adding a feature to hit automaticly with attacks that you are IGNORING things in the game that already outright do so.

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Looking at the above comments, I feel like 70% of the people who are responding/reading are happy with their lot in life and aren't living in a basement and/or dungeon: they've smelled the roses and like the smell. I can sense the sanity and the normality. They probably don't give two flying fucks about what the D&D Christ intoned unto his emaciated, bloody-eyed followers.

They just playin' da game.

I'm going to just go back to that life myself now.

No further comments on this thread will be read.

I've said give people options to play the game whatever way they want. A game. Entertainment. Gratuitous. Won't make you friends, won't make you wealthy, is escapism.

For those whose blood is boiled by my very suggestion that this game shouldn't be 100% D&D - go get laid for Christ's sake, you'll never play a video game with the same mindset again.

Goodluck!

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Originally Posted by roo3030
Looking at the above comments, I feel like 70% of the people who are responding/reading are happy with their lot in life and aren't living in a basement and/or dungeon: they've smelled the roses and like the smell. I can sense the sanity and the normality. They probably don't give two flying fucks about what the D&D Christ intoned unto his emaciated, bloody-eyed followers. [...]

Tone it down a bit, eh?

Originally Posted by roo3030
No further comments on this thread will be read.

rolleyes


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roo3030 Offline OP
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This thread had died a natural, peaceful death... But you just went all '5e' cleric on it, didn't ya? Hope da 200 gold was worth it, because now god only knows what'll happen if it's on page 1... I might just read another reply! (move it to page 10 if you can - it's da only place for it)

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5e resurrections are 300gp minimum


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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What's the 5e price, gold, soul or otherwise, to move this thread to a new 'planar sphere' (preferably encoded in a language no one understands or cares about).

Because I've got about 250 in BG3 coins, and I'd definitely sell me soul to da nine hells to never see this thread again.

Vometia... 'This be your're doin'!!!' (to quote the simpsons)

It had died a nice respectful death before you replied to it...

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