Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
So the more I see what people are doing in BG3, I realize that how Larian is handling actions in combat is completely borking everything.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jgplaf/baldurs_gate_3_early_access_the_cheesy_cheesy/

So because they don't have Use an Object action to handle doing stuff like pulling a lever in combat and by changing shove to be a bonus action, you can exploit their system like this.

BG3 starting to feel like a meme factory to make a joke of 5e.


Joined: Jan 2011
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
First this is what EA is about, bring issues to light. Second even if there is a case like this or two in the game, so few would ever take advantage of it and those that do... clever thinking on your part.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
So the more I see what people are doing in BG3, I realize that how Larian is handling actions in combat is completely borking everything.

BG3 starting to feel like a meme factory to make a joke of 5e.



Maybe that was their intention all along. Deconstruct the whole D&D ruleset lol.

Joined: Sep 2015
N
old hand
Offline
old hand
N
Joined: Sep 2015
When you look at the comments on reddit, they are actually pretty positive. Most people are saying they love the shove action cause it's hilarious.

Last edited by Nyanko; 23/10/20 10:02 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Nyanko
When you look at the comments on reddit, they are actually pretty positive. Most people are saying they love the shove action cause it's hilarious.


So you buy games and make your own mind based on what reddit says, pretty smart. Let me go ask 4chan while we are at it.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 23/10/20 10:09 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Nyanko
When you look at the comments on reddit, they are actually pretty positive. Most people are saying they love the shove action cause it's hilarious.


so BG3 is a comedy game? If so, hilarious is good. I am looking for a great fantasy roleplaying game so I hope for less hilarity.

Joined: Sep 2017
Location: Norway
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: Norway
Agreed. Same thing kind of goes for exploitable environmental effects like burning candle in inventory that can be dropped at will without any action cost. Even restoring sensible action economy it is too much cheese. I liked Bioware's approach in the original game better; straight up enchanted arrows with +1-6 elemental damage.

Originally Posted by Nyanko
When you look at the comments on reddit, they are actually pretty positive. Most people are saying they love the shove action cause it's hilarious.

It can still remain hilarious -- without being hilariously broken, by making shove a proper action instead of an oftentimes game-winning bonus action. Given the extreme verticality of the game (which I love), shove would still be a strong option, just less of a meme.



Joined: Oct 2020
T
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Nyanko
When you look at the comments on reddit, they are actually pretty positive. Most people are saying they love the shove action cause it's hilarious.


As if we needed more evidence that Reddit is garbage.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
The guy only stated that the reactions are positive on Reddit, not that it is balanced or exactly how it should work or that he's basing his opinions off of what Reddit says.

Isn't it the point of EA to see what people think about different aspects? I think it's important to note if it seems that many people like stuff like this; perhaps there's something worth keeping, but maybe it should be adjusted somehow.

If shove becomes an action, let's say using objects becomes an action too, it'd still possible to do something like this with a couple characters for example. Probably wouldn't be an optimal way to beat the fight, but you could do it if you're into it.

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
Just wanted to chime in and say I love Shove as well. It's about the most fun thing to do in the game. wink

With enemies having additional HPs, and often more dangerous in general, I'm perfectly happy with it being a bonus action.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Without the Dodge action and the Ready action, I really do feel like I am left with nothing to do, WAY more than I should. Even with the stupid cunning action for all characters that they have done.. oh AND shieldmaster without using a shield (bonus action shove was a feat, not core)... even with all that stuff, it does not make up for Ready action missing from my choices


another thing I have noticed, the shove command really needs a "prone" option as it has in 5e. Currently its just a position affecting mechanic, you have to use Ray of Frost for a prone roll. This is just one less action you can perform that is part of the ALREADY SIMPLIFIED action economy from 5e. Even if they dont ever add in Grapple... they need to address the Ready action command and "shove prone" command. Holding your position is an absolute tactical necessity in MANY cases and 5e is designed so that you do not need to give up your 1 action if a target is not yet in range


Oh... and Familiars should be able to Help, not attack. the Help action is all screwed up in this game too. "Help" is one more of those options you have in 5e for when no spells or abilties seem like the right choice. You are fighting something really hard to hit, your help action is worth more damage than your miss in many cases. If the stupid AI didnt focus target people on the ground who are not a threat, you wouldnt need to completely remove the functionality of the help command and replace iot with Spare the Dying bonus action on every hero. Please give us a proper "Help" action

Last edited by pill0ws; 24/10/20 12:03 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
I know they’ve sacrified the grapple action because the animations would be too difficult – but I’d be perfectly happy if they just used one of the existing animations (like the weakened one) for the victim and have the grappler move into their space.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Things like shoving a bear off the elevator is, I'm sorry, just stupid. Hilarious, but stupid. You should not be able to shove a creature that large like that. I'm waiting for the video of someone shoving the dragon off the cliff.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
I know they’ve sacrified the grapple action because the animations would be too difficult – but I’d be perfectly happy if they just used one of the existing animations (like the weakened one) for the victim and have the grappler move into their space.


agreed. Anything to improve action economy. This is going to be a big problem for Larian. They had the AP system in DOS where you could budget out multiple effects per turn. 5e is designed so that you have one action every 6 seconds, and they give you enough options that you always have a decent choice for that one action.

Larian's fix for action economy going from multiple choices to 5e's 1 action:
Cunning action for all!
Shieldmaster for all!
Items are bonus action too!

Its unfortunate, but most of the content that really started to hand out moroe bonus action options, really did come from Xanthar's. So I understand the sentiment to just completely wonk out the SRD system with a custom bonus action setup... I just think they need to reevaluate these choices. My take is this: Homebrew it harder!. The weapon short rest abilities are a great addition. Do more stuff like that, maybe have a system where boots/pants give out some kinda bonus action maneuver kinda like battle master battle die... Or simply just have the item type itself provide a function like "shields allow their wielder to use shove as a bonus action". Would be VERY easy to get shove as a bonus action... any shield would let you do it but it would at least have a rule to it and not be there for every person under the sun (badguys included). There already is a magic pair of boots that gives bonus action dash, maybe they remove bonus action stealth for all.. but tie it into a boot type, "leather boots allow you to use stealth as a bonus action". Boom, you regulated the stealth in combat without removing it (although it really probably should be a rogue only thing or magic item thing, that one is strong). The character will need the proficiency for the effect, there's your balance system. You'd still leave it open for lots of players to tweak out their action economy without letting everyone under the sun one shot kill as a bonus action when a monster is in the wrong place at the wrong time. FIRST they need to add in some new commands like ready action/ help as a method of providing advantage on a next attack. then they can tie the bonus action economy to gear, rather than the overpowered crap that it is now




TLDR: Homebrew in more item interaction with action economy.

Last edited by pill0ws; 24/10/20 12:43 AM.
Joined: Mar 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by pill0ws
another thing I have noticed, the shove command really needs a "prone" option as it has in 5e. Currently its just a position affecting mechanicn


I had a few cases where it played the prone animation instead of pushing back the enemy, but they stood back up right away, instead of having to wait for their turn.

I find it annoying a bit...


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5