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Matt Mercer in Critical Role is my favorite example of a lot of bad boss fights in their second campaign. It is almost inevitably a hydra, or a golem with 6 attacks, a roper, etc...

Every fight:
- High rollers: The standard array adds up to 72 points total in stats, they are averaging around 86. Hard to hit, they probably won't miss, huge DCs.
- Bane, get ready to fail all your attacks and save
- Slow: 1 attack, no reactions. Goodbye multi-attack
- Enfeeble: Str based attacks are half damage
- Spirit Guardians: Half speed, guaranteed damage
- 2 Clerics: can heal through the chip damage no issue
- No minions: 100% focus on the boss
- Always a full rest before boss fight: 100% offensive spells, incoming!
- Sentinel attack: No more escaping, get 0 movement on the hit
- Stunning Strike: Lol, bye, monk has 14 ki can do this shit all day
- Multiple misty steps: Can never close distance
- Command: It worked, skip you turn!

And so many more. Its just an un-ending shutdown until the thing dies. Matt Colville has a video on this in his Running the Game series that specifically talks about stopping the classic D&D run into melee with it and roll dice until it dies. They should be able to escape, summon things, legendary actions to interrupt 6 full turns of fucking your world before you go again every time. Minibosses can have limited 1x/day abilities, condition immunities, special attacks, ALWAYS HAVE MINIONS. My D&D players have said multiple times they've never enjoyed boss fights as much as in my games, but it took me a while to dial it in.

These are a few fights and they were level 5 I think against them. The only person without minions could turn into a shadow that could move along the floor, ceiling and walls, grapple with advantage with a garrote that did 22 damage and had 0 penalties for movement when grappling so hed pop up behind the group, grab the cleric, and then move 50 feet away and up into the 30' ceiling and start hanging them. The run forward and die stuff is just annoying and spamming bullshit abilities is just as annoying. Suspira had a 15 foot flame radius that every 2 turns in it you gained a point of exhaustion. Legendary action, knock you prone, then great club with advantage that would set you on fire when it hit you. You also took fire damage every time you hit it. There was just a lot going on to figure out. Raised corpses 3 went after ranger 2 after the cleric. They couldnt help heal and attacks at disadvantage.

Or a guy with a sword that attacks 3 times with 1000hp. "Fun"

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Originally Posted by pill0ws
Originally Posted by dunehunter
You won’t realize how OP disadvantage/advantage is until you see the dice, I’m playing Solasta and when I see my nature 20 became a nature 1 then I realize it’s a very strong buff/debut. And it shall not be granted so easy.


Hiding the dice is certainly the onlyh way they will ever sneak this shit past the average players head. D&D players already know how ridiculously strong Advantage is. If they showed people what was happening with the dice it would piss them off, and rightfully so, because Advantage was a niche effect that was given out only by certain conditions and class effects. Larian needs to tone back giving out these bonuses so easily.


It just now occurred to me that BG3 does not currently show the dice rolls for advantage (particularly when rolling to disarm traps or in conversations). That might make it clear just how important a bonus advantage really is - it increases the average on a d20 roll by 5, but more than that it greatly increases critical hits and greatly diminishes critical misses (which, granted, only apply to attacks). It is a huge advantage, but typically you really have to work for it; not so in Early Access. It seems that they are using a variant of the optional "facing" rules from the 5e Dungeon Master's Guide - those rules allow to you get advantage when you hit an opponent from behind. In standard, core D&D facing does not exist and a character is assumed to have a 360 degree visual arc during combat (this, of course, is subject to DM fiat - a DM might decide that a particular foe is singularly focused on a particular task or opponent, and grants advantage to a rear attacker). The thing is - those facing rules also mean that moving from someone's front arc to the back would provoke an opportunity attack, something that we don't need to worry about due to the bonus action jump/disengage. Facing also means that shields only apply to certain arcs as well. I've never used facing, primarily because each round is 6 full seconds and I imagine characters are changing facing constantly throughout the round.

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I expect it's just coming from tabletop but I would love to see the dice instead of the hit / miss or % to hit stuff. Another option that I hope that they will add.

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While facing is optional rules, attacking someone who cant see you already grants advantage. Unless the dm rules that for ease of play everyone just has 360 vieuw.

After all in combat its not uncommon for people to move around so just translating that to 360 degrees vieuw has some merits. That said I generally dont want to punish my players when they try to do a tactical move and hitting someone in the rear when they csnt see you would fall under that as well.

I think ingame its not really a problem though, the AI makes use of it as well after all.

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HP bloating every single thing is more of a problem than the bosses. In general turning every encounter into a set piece battle with high ground, explosive containers, grenades, multiple casters, buffed stat enemies makes playing the game kind of a chore. There should be some "pallet cleanser" encounters. Sometimes a group of goblins should be just a group of goblins.

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Originally Posted by Panda Warlord
HP bloating every single thing is more of a problem than the bosses. In general turning every encounter into a set piece battle with high ground, explosive containers, grenades, multiple casters, buffed stat enemies makes playing the game kind of a chore. There should be some "pallet cleanser" encounters. Sometimes a group of goblins should be just a group of goblins.


4e skill checks too

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2F4ex%2F20080505a




What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
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In 5e after level 5 a lone fighter can kill 4 goblins in one turn with a longbow and a use of action surge.


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Originally Posted by Skaia
In 5e after level 5 a lone fighter can kill 4 goblins in one turn with a longbow and a use of action surge.



Seriously? Is not 3? OHK one, then another then use the action and another.

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Skaia
In 5e after level 5 a lone fighter can kill 4 goblins in one turn with a longbow and a use of action surge.

Seriously? Is not 3? OHK one, then another then use the action and another.

Action surge gives you another action. Extra attack gives you two attacks per action.
So with your normal action, you kill 2 goblins. Then you action surge giving you another 2 attacks.

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Ahh thanks. I was thinking that surge gives one extra attack, nor an action which are 2 attacks

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AC -> HP balancing is tough because modelling impact is much harder than it sounds. Intuitively HP / (Hit Chance x Expected Damage) = Expected Hits to Kill so as long as HP / Hit Chance stays about the same it looks like not much has changed. Higher hit chance, lower variance, less frustrating, seems like an improvement. The problem is that damage is done in a small number of discrete chunks rather than deterministic blobs. One shotting weak enemies unreliably is much stronger than two shotting with ~double reliability because you will some times deny actions/placement (just existing in combat is useful, for example by threatening ranged attackers). And not all attacks are equal, opening attacks tend to be stronger, so making enemies more spongey nerfs that.

Also the flip side of lowering impact of variance on attack die is that it makes damage dice more swingy. For example part of why Warlock is so good in EA, 1d10 + Cha + 1d6 (hex and assuming Agonising Blast) is pretty good for one shotting at range, but even there a bad damage roll and your target surviving is more likely with higher HP, where as with the RAW 7hp a goblin has a 1/20 chance of surviving a hit with Eldritch Blast hit with +3 Cha, 1/60 at +4. With their current HP they have better odds of surviving a critical hit.

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
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sources

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...l3qdH_eKI0I_zM01Me0q_2q5Dg/viewanalytics

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=712680&page=1

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More than a third of players rated it with the WORST possible rating.

One thing that I hate on most non faitfhful D&D adaptaions is the hp bloat. On DDO, I have a epic level warlock but play on epic levels where every mob require dozens of EB to die is so boring. I like kill & die fast. The unique thing worse than HP bloat is cooldowns.

"But missing is not fun"

Says who? Also, this mindset assumes that everyone is playing as a human fighter like an jrpg. On the stream that I watched before deciding to buy the game, most people was asking for warlock over and over and having to hit an enemy 20 times with eldritch blast is not fun or engaging. Is more easy to just nerf enemy AC on the beginning and give a "non increased hit chance" option. Do you know what eldritch blast is? IS like a force magical heavy crossbow. It needs to be deadly!!! I can get a high level priest of Lolth surviving dozen of shots from it. But low level goblins? Common low level spiders?

If Larian believes that bullet sponge enemies are fun, why not give the OPTION to play with P&P values or not?



I didn't realize that that was what was going on.

I agree. Many enemies (Gobbos) have so much more health than I thought they should have. If its the case that enemy AC has been lowered and their health has been raised, then that decision should be overturned. I'd much rather miss or have more arrow glance off their armour than something like, I filled you with wounds now you may finally die.

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Originally Posted by Panda Warlord
AC -> HP balancing is tough because modelling impact is much harder than it sounds. Intuitively HP / (Hit Chance x Expected Damage) = Expected Hits to Kill so as long as HP / Hit Chance stays about the same it looks like not much has changed. Higher hit chance, lower variance, less frustrating, seems like an improvement. The problem is that damage is done in a small number of discrete chunks rather than deterministic blobs. One shotting weak enemies unreliably is much stronger than two shotting with ~double reliability because you will some times deny actions/placement (just existing in combat is useful, for example by threatening ranged attackers). And not all attacks are equal, opening attacks tend to be stronger, so making enemies more spongey nerfs that.

Also the flip side of lowering impact of variance on attack die is that it makes damage dice more swingy. For example part of why Warlock is so good in EA, 1d10 + Cha + 1d6 (hex and assuming Agonising Blast) is pretty good for one shotting at range, but even there a bad damage roll and your target surviving is more likely with higher HP, where as with the RAW 7hp a goblin has a 1/20 chance of surviving a hit with Eldritch Blast hit with +3 Cha, 1/60 at +4. With their current HP they have better odds of surviving a critical hit.


If you heave your greatsword down through a gobbo, that should be a oneshot. Somethings just don't connect. In my opinion, lowering the chance of damage makes sense, and encourages people to make more effective combat decisions as opposed to using every spell slot and short rest feature, then cheesing the camp system.

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Originally Posted by Demoulius
While facing is optional rules, attacking someone who cant see you already grants advantage. Unless the dm rules that for ease of play everyone just has 360 vieuw.

After all in combat its not uncommon for people to move around so just translating that to 360 degrees vieuw has some merits. That said I generally dont want to punish my players when they try to do a tactical move and hitting someone in the rear when they csnt see you would fall under that as well.

I think ingame its not really a problem though, the AI makes use of it as well after all.


I never see AI attack me from my back, unless I have my back towards them, I doubt AI is smart enough to do this.

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I hate it that my first post in the official forum of my favorite developer is a whiny complaining, but I just can't help myself, it is so frustrating. My level 4 warlock simply cannot kill a goblin child. A goblin child. It has 15 HP - with hex and +4 from agonizing blast, my damage is anywhere from 6 to 20 in one hit. I have been save-scumming for the past 20 minutes, which I almost never do, just because I refuse to believe a level 4 warlock cannot kill a child in a single hit, and it's just not happening.

I would just like to remind Larian that 5-10 level parties are considered "Heroes of the Realm" - page 37, Dungeon Master's Guide. Level 4 is not quite there, true, but it isn't that far either. If I was an Outerwordly patron - frankly, I would be disgusted at my character's inaptitude and would consider embracing that child instead!

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Originally Posted by tyrion85
I hate it that my first post in the official forum of my favorite developer is a whiny complaining, but I just can't help myself, it is so frustrating. My level 4 warlock simply cannot kill a goblin child. A goblin child. It has 15 HP - with hex and +4 from agonizing blast, my damage is anywhere from 6 to 20 in one hit. I have been save-scumming for the past 20 minutes, which I almost never do, just because I refuse to believe a level 4 warlock cannot kill a child in a single hit, and it's just not happening.

I would just like to remind Larian that 5-10 level parties are considered "Heroes of the Realm" - page 37, Dungeon Master's Guide. Level 4 is not quite there, true, but it isn't that far either. If I was an Outerwordly patron - frankly, I would be disgusted at my character's inaptitude and would consider embracing that child instead!


Not to mention that a goblin child with 15 HP is ridiculous... especially when you compare it to adult of any race.

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+1 as im sure others have stated in this thread, blanket hp bloat isnt a great design choice in a game where your character is supposed to gain a sense of advancement/progression while they gain levels, and frankly it comes off as a lazy fix that actually causes more problems than it solves, again for alot of the reasons posted here. at lvl 1, i can understand being worried about my fighters chances against a small goblin mob, but by the time i get to level 3-4, a single fighter should be able to manage or at least hold their own, but this is made that much more difficult when instead of dealing with say 4 gobbos at 7 for 21 hp, you have 4 at 15 for 60 (obviously its not this simple, bc your fighter theoretically will be 'stronger', but for sake of discussion)

i think scaling hp for certain boss npcs or giving enemies bonuses can be better implemented and explained narratively (ie a more disciplined/established goblin tribe in the region is known for having better armor and therefore higher AC or a more rugged/barbaric tribe could have possible rage/dmg resist functions, etc.) as opposed to just raising hp for enemies across the board irregardless of narrative whenever you level. i also think this speaks to some of the general weaknesses that are inherent currently in bg3 encounters from both a narrative design (ex. has anyone been able to knockout anyone yet and get a different story progression or is this still not fully implemented?) and combat gameplay (altho larian is still likely balancing/tuning dnd/dos mechanics) standpoint.

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Originally Posted by nation
*snip* has anyone been able to knockout anyone yet and get a different story progression or is this still not fully implemented?

I got into combat with the myconid colony, making the traders hostile. I knocked one (the one with the ox) out and cleaned the remaining area. When I returned after a long rest, the trader was up and non-hostile initially. However, she reverted to hostility after some amount of time...not sure why.

Unless the non-hostility itself was just a bug, there is at least some implementation in the code that makes those you've knocked out non-hostile.

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Originally Posted by tyrion85
I hate it that my first post in the official forum of my favorite developer is a whiny complaining, but I just can't help myself, it is so frustrating. My level 4 warlock simply cannot kill a goblin child. A goblin child. It has 15 HP - with hex and +4 from agonizing blast, my damage is anywhere from 6 to 20 in one hit. I have been save-scumming for the past 20 minutes, which I almost never do, just because I refuse to believe a level 4 warlock cannot kill a child in a single hit, and it's just not happening.

I would just like to remind Larian that 5-10 level parties are considered "Heroes of the Realm" - page 37, Dungeon Master's Guide. Level 4 is not quite there, true, but it isn't that far either. If I was an Outerwordly patron - frankly, I would be disgusted at my character's inaptitude and would consider embracing that child instead!


yeah its pretty ridiculous in comparison

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Originally Posted by tyrion85
I would just like to remind Larian that 5-10 level parties are considered "Heroes of the Realm" - page 37, Dungeon Master's Guide. Level 4 is not quite there, true, but it isn't that far either. If I was an Outerwordly patron - frankly, I would be disgusted at my character's inaptitude and would consider embracing that child instead!


Eldritch Blast should be powerful as an force heavy crossbow. The idea of a goblin child surviving it makes ZERO sense.

However, this "tiers" on 5e are just RETARDED. Seriously. An lv 17 guy on the city of Liches can be the weakest non slave in that city and hence not even close to an "local hero" there, but according to the tier, he is a "hero of the world". This FORCES the DM to escalate teh conflict with the character growth and you can't have interesting high level adventures that are more local or even personal, like an hero trying to escape from Carceri.

As for warlocks, warlocks LEARNS from their patron. IDK why so many people believe that they are clerics. This wasen't the case on 2e and 3.5e...

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