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Niara Offline OP
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I can understand that hesitation, Sadurian, and Frumpkis, above, - but at the same time, that worry is mostly a reflex reaction usually based on a misconception. A properly proportioned halfling, with the body ratios of a mature adult, doesn't stand any chance of being taken for a human child, at all - at least not by anyone who actually looks - but this is something that a lot of people don't realise until they actually have a visual reference to compare and see - which, unfortunately, can be very hard to come by. I feel that many people feel an instinctual worry or discomfort at the idea that they might end up looking like nine- or ten-year-olds, or pre-teens (a legitimate thing to not want, of course), but the truth is very far from that, and that danger isn't really a risk, if it's done properly.

Here's some quick background statistics though, if it helps:

Your average adult halfling is about 3 feet tall.
Your average human child is about 3 feet tall when they are aged between 1 and 2 - it may genuinely surprise some to read that and think on it, but any older and they're already notably taller than a halfling ever gets.
In terms of body ratios, an average human child of that age and height presents large head-to-body proportions, and smaller limb-to-torso ratios as well, not unlike the halfling models we currently have in game.

A quick reference:

https://i.imgur.com/UBRqrA4.png

This is one of the more commonly used charts that illustrate, in rough abstract, human developmental proportions - they represent 1 year old, 2 years old, 6 years, 12 years, and adult, respectively.

Giving halflings the body proportions of a mature adult would actually make them less likely to register as a juvenile creature to our senses than the current models do; it is precisely the having of a larger head and smaller limb-to-torso ratios that makes them more likely to be interpreted as juvenile by us. This isn't so much allayed by anything in the current models, as it is the case that other elements of the current models override that instinct with a sense of something being 'off' or 'wrong' (The head to body ratio would make our senses trigger as juvenile, but for the way that the actual head structure and model are clearly adult in features, for example).

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I agree, the halflings don't look right. All of the changes in the original post sound good to me.

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Great post and I completely agree, though I couldn't put my finger on why the models bothered me so much until the OP laid it out. I hope we don't see the same problems with gnomes.

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I think, as an artist, that most of the issue is an unpleasant head size and a lack of a waist. The changes need to be subtle, not drastic. Sometimes just a bit of a change makes a huge difference.

#736892 20/11/20 04:32 PM
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So, granted, I haven't played D&D or a D&D game since Neverwinter Nights 2. But... when did Halflings start looking like trash? They were my favorite race for 10 years. I had to uninstall and refund because of the horrendous models. And then I did some research and found out that in 5e they actually look WORSE than they do in BG3. WHY.

Please Larian find it in your hearts to undo this madness.

This is how the races should look, I want this chiseled into a stone monument somewhere for all time:

[Linked Image]

Last edited by omikaVII; 20/11/20 04:35 PM.
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You might be interested in this thread:

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714845#Post714845

It discusses just the point you are making.

Last edited by Sadurian; 20/11/20 04:37 PM.
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My main Faerun character for 10 years was a gothy, halfling femme fatale named Longshadow and I will be god damned if the models as they stand make it to the final cut. Bring back 3.5e halflings with normal, human proportions -- proper, agile, odd little people. Actual LITTLE PEOPLE not 'people with dwarfism' or 'people with creepy baby proportions'

I was so disappointed I couldn't bear to play the game

Last edited by omikaVII; 20/11/20 05:40 PM.
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Thank you~!

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I concur.
If the little fellas get an overhaul i would even consider playing one. Always liked Tasslehoff. He's Kender though :P

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Originally Posted by omikaVII
My main Faerun character for 10 years was a gothy, halfling femme fatale named Longshadow and I will be god damned if the models as they stand make it to the final cut. Bring back 3.5e halflings with normal, human proportions -- proper, agile, odd little people. Actual LITTLE PEOPLE not 'people with dwarfism' or 'people with creepy baby proportions'

I was so disappointed I couldn't bear to play the game


Actually halflings in 3.5 had elongated heads, that profile pic you have shows how stretched out the back of the head is with the top extremely flat for halflings.

3.5 book Races of the Wild:
Halflings are short and wiry, standing about 3 feet tall and weighing between 30 and 35 pounds. Females are slightly shorter than males, but no less strong. Their bodies are well proportioned, though their heads are somewhat elongated compared with those of humans. They are longer-lived than humans are, reaching maturity at 20 years of age and often living well past the age of 100. Most halflings have ruddy skin, dark eyes, and straight black hair, though lighter shades of hair are known in many societies. Males often wear sideburns, though they almost never grow beards or mustaches. All halflings prefer to wear their hair long, often braided or styled in some distinctive way. Their features are more delicate than those of humans, and their ears are elongated and slightly pointed.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Side note: was digging around guess 4e bumped halflings a extra foot with more weight and 5e went back to 3.5 size.

Last edited by fallenj; 20/11/20 07:58 PM.
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Yeah, I loved their weird, elongated heads, they were awesome and made them look a bit alien

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+1

It's the first thing i noticed. What the hell happened to the halflings. I only ever played 3.5e dnd, so i thought they changed how they looked in 5e or something. But damn, i don't like it.

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Yes!

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I like the lithe, athletic halflings, not the wannabe hobbit ones.

Lidda was awesome.

I really liked how they did halflings in 4e, too, especially the lore for them.

5e they basically said, "Nope, they're hobbits again. Forget the cool halflings of the last two editions. We back on that Tolkien train, all aboard!"


Also, relevant reading (with pictures): https://roguish.wordpress.com/2018/05/20/halflings-through-the-ages-and-dd-editions/

Last edited by Firesnakearies; 21/11/20 12:47 AM.
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"I had to uninstall and refund because of the horrendous models"

Can I presume you were jesting ?

That said, I think the Halflings are super cute. Ideally, we would have options for body shape, so a Halfling does not have to look like a less brutal Dwarf, and be slimmer.

EDIT : oops, had not seen the cool and dynamic thread already on the subject, mentioned by Sadurian above.

Last edited by Baraz; 21/11/20 01:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Baraz
"I had to uninstall and refund because of the horrendous models"

Can I presume you were jesting ?

That said, I think the Halflings are super cute. Ideally, we would have options for body shape, so a Halfling does not have to look like a less brutal Dwarf, and be slimmer.


Having options for body shape does not change the fact that all the npc halflings look like they have dwarfism except you.
I would like to see a change to appearance of the race in general. The picture above has always been my reference as well.
I don't know if there is some poll option, i would like to see what people think about this.

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+1 OP very well presented.

I think the DOS2 representation of elves is much closer to D&D than the current BG3 version is. The halflings, gnomes and Dwarves have really disproportionate head, hand and body models making them almost satirical.

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Niara Offline OP
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Thanks for keeping this active, folks.

Part of the point I was trying to make was that, even in 5e, there are plenty of very much official art pieces that depict halflings with good proportions - more, in fact, than depict them with bad proportions. The ideal here would be to point to the published-in-official-5e-books artwork that we Do want Larian to draw from... not to try to say that the bad ones are the 'truth', because they aren't.

5e didn't "go back to bobble heads" - one or two of their artists did that, but several other artists did NOT do that... and no one image is more official than any other, when they're all published in official books.
The 5e descriptions make no mention of the bad proportions at all - something which would have been mentioned if it were indeed canonical.

Let's try and focus on the depictions that come officially from 5e which are good, rather than the awful ones.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
I like the lithe, athletic halflings, not the wannabe hobbit ones.

Lidda was awesome.

I really liked how they did halflings in 4e, too, especially the lore for them.

5e they basically said, "Nope, they're hobbits again. Forget the cool halflings of the last two editions. We back on that Tolkien train, all aboard!"


Also, relevant reading (with pictures): https://roguish.wordpress.com/2018/05/20/halflings-through-the-ages-and-dd-editions/



Yikes that guy/girl liked the pathfinder take on halflings, super wide faces like someone stretched them half a face extra.

So looks like 5e reverted to 3.5 height and slapped 10 additional pounds on the average halfling.

Oh crap I do remember seeing some of these pictures, took a hour of digging around to find them.

[Linked Image]

StrongHeart / StoutHeart

[Linked Image]

Lightfoot

Having a hard time finding Ghostwise, presuming they would be the ones with no shoes an furry feet.

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Niara Offline OP
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The other thread gives a full break down, and the comments back towards it are almost unanimous after three pages, Fredahl... take a peek if you haven't yet. Unfortunately, it's not just the NPCs. Even PCs have these problems... the armour we wear somewhat disguises it, but it becomes painfully visible if you strip them down to their underwear... The features that suggest dwarfism and juvenile proportions are at their most obvious and jarring when the character models are naked... Which, it must be pointed out, if we are to be permitted to pursue romance and intimacy like the mature adults we are, is kind of when the models need to look their best, not their worst.

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