Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
@OP should try to play the game on a PC and leave the potato for dinner.

Joined: Oct 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
He's right though. An EA should really do its best to showcase the developers vision and mechanics in a limited scope. So it should be functionally complete and impressive within that limited scope. For example, implementation of a restricted number of classes, with said classes being complete; a functional story for Act 1; a restricted spell list but all the features around these spells working; similarly for skills. The EA isn't like this - it is half-baked in almost every feature. Any dev that took just a day of their time to play through their own game so far would see countless easy improvements that they can make on the opening act. It doesn't need us to tell them about them, or a large statistical playerbase to balance combat - they just need to open their eyes.

In other words, the only reason for an EA was for financing. It was not to improve the game via feedback or even showcase something they are proud of. That might come later, but it is nowhere near it yet.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel
He's right though. An EA should really do its best to showcase the developers vision and mechanics in a limited scope. So it should be functionally complete and impressive within that limited scope. For example, implementation of a restricted number of classes, with said classes being complete; a functional story for Act 1; a restricted spell list but all the features around these spells working; similarly for skills. The EA isn't like this - it is half-baked in almost every feature. Any dev that took just a day of their time to play through their own game so far would see countless easy improvements that they can make on the opening act. It doesn't need us to tell them about them, or a large statistical playerbase to balance combat - they just need to open their eyes.

In other words, the only reason for an EA was for financing. It was not to improve the game via feedback or even showcase something they are proud of. That might come later, but it is nowhere near it yet.

I don't get it don't you read what you buy before you buy it? Do I need to quote the dissimilars on the steam pages, or is it a waste of time?


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Abits #717863 26/10/20 06:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Abits

I don't get it don't you read what you buy before you buy it? Do I need to quote the dissimilars on the steam pages, or is it a waste of time?


Alright, if you want to go down that route, the store page has a dev quote: "We’ve worked hard to release an Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible." I agree that this is what an EA should be - but this is not the current state of EA. Almost everything is (as they themselves put it) a "stub".

For your convenience, the full text for context is:

Quote

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The Early Access version of Baldur’s Gate 3 includes Act 1 of the game which, in one playthrough, is approximately 25 hours of self-contained content. 6 player classes are supported and 9 races/subraces with more to be added later. There are 5 origin characters which you can recruit (but not play as for now). Most of Baldur’s Gate 3’s advertised features are included though some are still work in progress. Not every language is currently supported, as our writers are still developing the game which makes translation difficult.

We’ve worked hard to release an Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible. There are bugs and there will be changes to content (often based on player feedback), but our goal is to already now give you something that’s genuinely fun to play.”

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel
Originally Posted by Abits

I don't get it don't you read what you buy before you buy it? Do I need to quote the dissimilars on the steam pages, or is it a waste of time?


Alright, if you want to go down that route, the store page has a dev quote: "We’ve worked hard to release an Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible." I agree that this is what an EA should be - but this is not the current state of EA. Almost everything is (as they themselves put it) a "stub".

For your convenience, the full text for context is:

Quote

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The Early Access version of Baldur’s Gate 3 includes Act 1 of the game which, in one playthrough, is approximately 25 hours of self-contained content. 6 player classes are supported and 9 races/subraces with more to be added later. There are 5 origin characters which you can recruit (but not play as for now). Most of Baldur’s Gate 3’s advertised features are included though some are still work in progress. Not every language is currently supported, as our writers are still developing the game which makes translation difficult.

We’ve worked hard to release an Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible. There are bugs and there will be changes to content (often based on player feedback), but our goal is to already now give you something that’s genuinely fun to play.”

Well what's so wrong about it? I'm looking for the big lie/scam you people continue to hint at

Last edited by Abits; 26/10/20 06:39 PM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel
He's right though. An EA should really do its best to showcase the developers vision and mechanics in a limited scope. So it should be functionally complete and impressive within that limited scope. For example, implementation of a restricted number of classes, with said classes being complete; a functional story for Act 1; a restricted spell list but all the features around these spells working; similarly for skills. The EA isn't like this - it is half-baked in almost every feature. Any dev that took just a day of their time to play through their own game so far would see countless easy improvements that they can make on the opening act. It doesn't need us to tell them about them, or a large statistical playerbase to balance combat - they just need to open their eyes.

In other words, the only reason for an EA was for financing. It was not to improve the game via feedback or even showcase something they are proud of. That might come later, but it is nowhere near it yet.


You are mistaken. EA is all about allowing people to play an UNFINISHED product in order to incorporate player feedback at an early stage. It is NOT meant as a demo. It is by definitition unfinished. Read what it says on the tin on steam.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The Early Access version of Baldur’s Gate 3 includes Act 1 of the game which, in one playthrough, is approximately 25 hours of self-contained content. 6 player classes are supported and 9 races/subraces with more to be added later. There are 5 origin characters which you can recruit (but not play as for now). Most of Baldur’s Gate 3’s advertised features are included though some are still work in progress. Not every language is currently supported, as our writers are still developing the game which makes translation difficult.

We’ve worked hard to release an Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible. There are bugs and there will be changes to content (often based on player feedback), but our goal is to already now give you something that’s genuinely fun to play.”
[/quote]

Also:

Quote
Will I enjoy Early Access?
You should not buy Baldur’s Gate 3 in Early Access if you want a polished experience.

Early Access gives you a chance at an early taste of what the gameplay will be like but we still have a lot of work ahead of us. While we did our best to remove the most annoying bugs and optimize the game as much as we could, there are still plenty of issues and it will take us time to fix them. Only buy the game now if you want an early look or if you want to participate in community feedback. Otherwise, you’re probably best off waiting until version 1.0 releases.”


Content means story in this context, not bug-free or all systems finished. And the story seems mostly complete, like a solid 90%.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
I don't understand why I bother arguing with them at all. They already paid so they did their part in improving this game as far as I see it they can keep whine all day long


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Abits #717889 26/10/20 06:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Abits

Well what's so wrong about it? I'm looking for the big lie/scam you people continue to hint at


I don't think it is a scam at all. But I do think the EA was premature and probably financially motivated. Do you honestly think that the "Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible"? I realise you are not a native English speaker, but surely you can see the inconsistency between the wording and the actual in-game content?

Originally Posted by Schepel

You are mistaken. EA is all about allowing people to play an UNFINISHED product in order to incorporate player feedback at an early stage. It is NOT meant as a demo. It is by definitition unfinished. Read what it says on the tin on steam.


I even gave you a quote from the steam store page. You can just scroll up and read it yourself. Their claim to "as little stub (unfinished) content as possible" clearly contradicts your view.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel

Do you honestly think that the "Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible"?


I've seen full releases that were worse than what the EA in its current state offers. And as I already said: the content is there. You just seem to interpret that content means "bugfree and all systems", instead of "Act 1 of three". They even mention Act 1 in your own quote from the steam page. Now tell me: what is Act 1 severely missing? A few minor side quests here and there, yes. But the brunt of it seems to be there.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
I think people had this vision in their head of what EA is and couldn't handle the hype, only to buy something they weren't sure they wanted.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Canada
S
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Canada

To the original poster:

Did you not read the multiple, repeated warnings from Larian that 'Early Access' was not close to a "finished game", and that anyone expecting such should not buy Early Access? They warned about bugs and stability/playability problems, but I still signed on, and I'm happy I did.

After about 81 hours of game play - on four different character builds - I've only encountered two "hard" hard system crashing-problems; the rest of my observations in other posts have been on either gameplay bugs about skills/spells, or just my two cents about 5th edition rules and balance issues. (Again, IMO. grin )

So it's far from being anywhere close to the alleged title of your irritated troll post.

Joined: Oct 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel

Do you honestly think that the "Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible"?


I've seen full releases that were worse than what the EA in its current state offers. And as I already said: the content is there. You just seem to interpret that content means "bugfree and all systems", instead of "Act 1 of three". They even mention Act 1 in your own quote from the steam page. Now tell me: what is Act 1 severely missing? A few minor side quests here and there, yes. But the brunt of it seems to be there.


Having seen games that were worse is not a ringing endorsement, is it? For storytelling alone, Act 1 is missing voice-overs, animations, party interactions, and lots more. For example, the much talked about first meeting with Astarion is presumably not complete. (At least I hope it isn't.) And that is just the narrative part - there are lots and lots of incomplete systems in the game (e.g. the inventory system), which is really surprising given how much is copy/paste from DOS2.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel
Originally Posted by Abits

Well what's so wrong about it? I'm looking for the big lie/scam you people continue to hint at


I don't think it is a scam at all. But I do think the EA was premature and probably financially motivated. Do you honestly think that the "Early Access version that feels complete, fun to play, and has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible"? I realise you are not a native English speaker, but surely you can see the inconsistency between the wording and the actual in-game content?

Originally Posted by Schepel

You are mistaken. EA is all about allowing people to play an UNFINISHED product in order to incorporate player feedback at an early stage. It is NOT meant as a demo. It is by definitition unfinished. Read what it says on the tin on steam.


I even gave you a quote from the steam store page. You can just scroll up and read it yourself. Their claim to "as little stub (unfinished) content as possible" clearly contradicts your view.


Did you start reading from the fourth section? Try reading the first two sections. They are more than clear on the topic.

Originally Posted by Larian
Why Early Access?
“We’ve learned that working directly with our players during development makes our games better. RPGs this large, with so many permutations, thrive from feedback as new features and fixes are incrementally added to the game. Early Access gives players a chance to participate in development and it gives us an opportunity to explore different game ideas with a live community. We want to learn how you play the game and use that to make it a better experience for everyone.

Will I enjoy Early Access?
You should not buy Baldur’s Gate 3 in Early Access if you want a polished experience.

Early Access gives you a chance at an early taste of what the gameplay will be like but we still have a lot of work ahead of us. While we did our best to remove the most annoying bugs and optimize the game as much as we could, there are still plenty of issues and it will take us time to fix them. Only buy the game now if you want an early look or if you want to participate in community feedback. Otherwise, you’re probably best off waiting until version 1.0 releases.”

Joined: Sep 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel
He's right though. An EA should really do its best to showcase the developers vision and mechanics in a limited scope. So it should be functionally complete and impressive within that limited scope. For example, implementation of a restricted number of classes, with said classes being complete; a functional story for Act 1; a restricted spell list but all the features around these spells working; similarly for skills. The EA isn't like this - it is half-baked in almost every feature. Any dev that took just a day of their time to play through their own game so far would see countless easy improvements that they can make on the opening act. It doesn't need us to tell them about them, or a large statistical playerbase to balance combat - they just need to open their eyes.

In other words, the only reason for an EA was for financing. It was not to improve the game via feedback or even showcase something they are proud of. That might come later, but it is nowhere near it yet.


If they needed financing, they would have just crowdfunded it like they have with other games. They would have obviously smashed whatever their goal was, so this is objectively incorrect and a horrible take.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Joined: Oct 2020
T
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by PMSbloodrage
I’m so very disappointed in this “prerelease”. Ultimately I paid $60 to be a beta tester. At the stage of development this game is in, it should never have been released. Call it “prerelease” or what you will, you should be ashamed of yourselves @larian.

One thing I have discovered is that the game is somewhat playable if I play in offline mode with steam. Otherwise, I’m forced to close and restart the game between loading previous saves. I also have to reboot my computer periodically or I suffer intolerable lag.

Hopefully soon this will at least be a polished turd, and I can feel I spent $60 on something that doesn’t look as bad but still stinks like a turd.


I'm not going to join the name calling or anything like that, but I'm curious... what is your computer setup? It sounds like it's having a heck of a time.

Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
Originally Posted by PMSbloodrage
I’m so very disappointed in this “prerelease”. Ultimately I paid $60 to be a beta tester. At the stage of development this game is in, it should never have been released.

So... you are upset that Early Access, clearly and on multiple occasions described as a chance for players to play rough and unfinished Build and help test stuff and provide feedback is what was promised? It seems like you should have listened to Sven and wait for 1.0 release.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel
Having seen games that were worse is not a ringing endorsement, is it? For storytelling alone, Act 1 is missing voice-overs, animations, party interactions, and lots more. For example, the much talked about first meeting with Astarion is presumably not complete. (At least I hope it isn't.) And that is just the narrative part - there are lots and lots of incomplete systems in the game (e.g. the inventory system), which is really surprising given how much is copy/paste from DOS2.


No, the pretty great quality is the ringing endorsement. And you still are not refuting any point made, but rather having a blast with a strawman. Neither I, nor Larian have said that it is complete.

The exact words, that you have forgot conveniently fast are:

Quote
has as little stub (unfinished) content as possible


Now you could get philosophical and ask "but what is possible", which is rather tiresome and pointless. Possible is what they delivered. They have economical and organizational constraints, that neither you or I know. I know it hurts, when you try so hard to achieve a gotcha moment with your quote, but fail so hard when multiple other posters have to remind you that there is more than one paragraph and you did not even read the one you quoted right. Big sad and stuff.

Edit:

Quote
(e.g. the inventory system), which is really surprising given how much is copy/paste from DOS2.


Pretty funny that you deliver the answer why it is that way in the same sentence. It is unfinished because it is atm just a copy&paste. You think they just press 3 buttons and a new game system is done, but it is rarely that easy.

Last edited by KingTiki; 26/10/20 07:45 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by KingTiki
And you still are not refuting any point made, but rather having a blast with a strawman. Neither I, nor Larian have said that it is complete.


You really haven't made any points other than a blind fanboy reaction to criticism. Look, if you think the sun shines out of Larian's arse and Act 1 is complete and fantastic as it is, that is up to you, but I beg to differ and I don't think my view is unreasonable.

Quote

It is unfinished because it is atm just a copy&paste. You think they just press 3 buttons and a new game system is done, but it is rarely that easy.


After all your inconsistent tiresome fanboy cheerleading, we at last have a point we agree on. BG3 is at the moment, largely a copy and paste from DOS2. They haven't bothered to clean it up, or make it appropriate for D&D 5e or the Faerun setting, and even worse, they haven't made any attempt to develop most of their systems beyond the most basic of stubs. You might think that is worth $60, and more importantly worthy of the legacy of BG, but I don't.

Don't get me wrong. I still strongly hope that they can pull it back and make a wonderful game. But they are off to a poor start.

Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Duchess of Gorgombert
Offline
Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Originally Posted by Rhovaniel
You really haven't made any points other than a blind fanboy reaction to criticism. ... After all your inconsistent tiresome fanboy cheerleading

Given that much of this topic consists of this sort of exchange and whatever points that needed making have been made, I'm closing it.

And a reminder to conduct yourselves in a polite and civilised manner: I don't wish to see the same names coming up again.


J'aime le fromage.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5