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First of all, be aware of that I do not request any min-maxing or the best out of the best options - but I am completely new to this type of games (Divinity 2 OS being the only similar game I've played in the past) and I really struggle from time to time in combat and I could use some tips and tricks from you vets. laugh Honestly, my biggest issue is not knowing what to do with my followers at this point. :x

My current setup is this: my own character, ranger (beast master) type - usually wolf or spider companion (the other ones seems really underwhelming when compared to the spider n wolf frown ). Wyll is my semi-frontline and got an imp summoning. Gale is being Gale doing Gale things, usually missing his fireball, failing his frost thing or putting stuff to sleep. Then I got the vampire dood doing stabby stuff - and he is usually doing better than most of my team.

As some of you must've guessed, I had a DOS2-mentality when picking my group. The idea was to mimic my favorite group in DOS2 (because honestly, I had no idea what else to pick given our companion choices); my own ranger (my "primary" characters usually end up as rangers cause... Well, I love bows, crossbows and nature stuff), a caster/hybrid front-line (preferably necromancer magic/fire), a proper supportive (but not exclusively healer) wizard type and an assassin for annoying backlines.

I'd imagine most people are laughing by now and you guys probably know what my current issue is... See, my rogue is doing fine. He does his assassination-stuff and is all-in-all usually performing well. The rest of the group however...

Gale misses more spells than he actually hits - up to the point were I've decided to mostly put him on sleep-duty and he deals NADA damage even when he hits his spells. My ranger misses about 50% of her shots, despite me trying really hard to provide tactical advantages like special arrows, height advantage and stuff... And Wyll? Well, sure, he can take a beating - but oh man his spells and his attacks hits for NOTHING despite having better equipment than most other followers. More often than not, my spider/wolf companion and imp acts as hard carries and that just feels... Weird.

I've somehow managed to clear most of the swamp and the entire inner section of the goblin camp (inside the fortress, including the bosses) and my characters are all level 4 with some green equipment. But clearing the outside section of the goblin camp seems impossible, despite most mobs having like 10hp (BECAUSE I KEEP MISSING q _ q )...

So... Uhm, anyone got any ideas? Anything from "think of this next playthrough" to "replace these spells > profit". Any tip is welcome! Thanks laugh


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Imo, warlocks don't make great frontliners. They're better put up high, and using the hex(spell)/eldricht blast(cantrip)/agonizing blast(invocation) combo to nuke people from afar. What you're looking for as a frontliner would be a paladin which isn't available yet, maybe an eldricht knight fighter, or a melee ranger. As for Gale, idk how you managed his stats but make sure to max out his intelligence and (same goes for all ranged characters) make sure to give him high ground, the difference is huge. You could use misty step to put him in a better position.

As an aside, nothing beats clerics for support roles. They're not necessarily exclusive healers, since you can prepare new spells every day, and offensively oriented clerics can be really scary.

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About Gale - use magic missile. It's a spell that can't miss, and you can use it to hit multiple targets for small damage or one target for bigger damage.
About Wyll - I wouldn't use him anywhere near the front lines. Wyll needs to spam Eldrich Blast from some place high. In level 3 (I think) he gets teleportation spell. Use it to put him in a spot when he can rain hell.

Astarion - aside from being a little squishy he is very good. I found that it's best to equip him with two weapons.

About your ranger I don't know much, since I didn't really played ranged ranger yet (strangely the ranger right now has a lot of potential as melee fighter for some strange reason). I would say to take horde breaker either way, as it allows you to attack twice per turn if the enemies are close enough to each other.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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As a fellow ranger player, if you are missing a lot, you might just need to consider trying a build with higher dexterity. Since they don't have a lot of attack spells, most everything they do will rely on finesse melee weapons and with the bow. Without a good starting Dex, I could see them really struggling. Getting True strike as one of your starting bonuses may help. Buffs from companions as well.

For me, I have done a half wood elf hunter ranger and full wood elf beastmaster ranger, both with 16 dex at start and 18 at lvl 4. With that, I haven't had much issue with missing. Because of the good armor too I use my ranger to kind of go where needed and pull enemy attention since he can typically survive a bit better than the squishy rogues and wizards.

I have swapped between using Shadowheart, Laezel, and Astarion for front lines and at least with my ranger Shadowheart or Laezel have felt to work out better. And then I've been using Wyll and gale in the back for long range support.

So. As far as what's worked for me, I'd use someone different than Astarion to manage your frontline, tailor your ranger for movement (especially if you get the misty step amulet) and keep them on the middle ground to go where needed, with your choice of support in the back.

This game definitely has a higher rate if missing and attack chance than DOS2 and unfortunately that means you need to account for that. Unfortunately it's hard to have members good at multiple things.

(Side note: make sure you are not using the gloves of power unless going the related story route and not doing Long range attacks when enemies are close to you. Both will make your attack chance suffer)

Last edited by Valzen; 26/10/20 04:29 PM.
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Also, if you are ranged guy and you have Wyll and gale with you, you might need more melee guys. I would swap gale or Wyll with one of the girls. Shadowheart can give buffs and heal and things like that, but is kinda weak and won't do a lot of melee damage. Laezel doesn't have too much extra value other than being a kind of a front liner, but she is fine at that provides you would use her special attacks (pushing strikes and terrifying strike or whatever it's called)


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
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Warlocks aren't great front liners in this game. They're marginally effective as front liners in 5E base rules, with a specific subclass (Hexblade) being the best choice for melee warlocks (afaik, that won't be in the BG3 game as they are doing PHB classes/archetypes and hexblade is in a supplemental 5e book called "Xanathar's Guide to Everything").

You COULD get away with your warlock and gale in the party, though it's magical overkill. If you did that, I'd put Astarion and Shadowheart in the party. Astartion is one of the best damage dealers in EA (especially with the thief archetype and dual wielding light finesse weapons). Shadowheart can get enough AC to manage frontline aggro, while Astarion can be used to focus damage on whomever is attacking shadowheart or will be in position to do so next round. Shadowheart would generally want to either boost her AC or bane attackers if she's acting as a frontliner, and Astarion would either make a sneak attack plus two bonus attacks with the offhand OR sneak attack + dash/jump/hide every round. Your lock would target high priority enemies and gale would fill in the blanks witih crowd control or targetted attacks to keep shadowheart from getting overwhelmed.

Alternatively, your 'lock, Gale, Shadowheart and Lae'zel would work incredibly well.

So far, I've found that if you use the skills of your team to compliment each other, almost any class combo will be effective in combat. You just have to play to your team's strengths and weaknesses and use the other game systems to your advantage when needed (like sending every explosive barrel you come across to camp, sneaking into position and transferring them to the player in position from camp through other PC's to set up insta kill traps for encounters that are too hard with your chosen group)

Personally, so far I've found any combination of warlock + wizard to be magical overkill that leaves blank spots in party makeup. Picking one or the other seems the best way to get yourself a balanced party and cover all your bases. I think there was ONE time when I played a warlock build (with laezal, astarion and shadowheart) where I had to switch out a party member for gale so I could access a spell he had that I didn't have as a scroll on my 'lock. And that was when I discovered an alternate path in to the goblin camp that required feather fall.

Last edited by nickabbey; 26/10/20 05:25 PM.
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Oh and if you don't take astarion in your party, anyone with decent dex can handle traps and locks for you. It's easier if they have thieve's tools proficiency, but not necessary. Most warlock or wizard builds will want to pump dex to 14 or 16 if they can get it, so you could forego Astarion in favor of Lae'zel and still be able to handle traps/locks.

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I found Wyll to be the least useful of my companions, however if you do use him (I tend to take him with me to goblin camp as it's kinda his mission), it's a good idea to pick up Misty step, which is also a must for Gale (and fun for Astarion actually).

As for Gale - take up magic missiles and depending of what you're fighting rotate between lvl I and II (you can also divide them which is amazing for goblins). You can also get a necklace in underdark which makes magic missiles truly amazing.

Astarion for me works best when dualwielding two shortswords and using backstabs, is also decent with bow, make sure to keep him "happy"

And then I'd probably take Lae'Zal over Shadowheart (although characterwise I prefer SH by far) as she's quite amazing with that greatsword.

Also for goblin Camp - high ground and explosives FTW

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Originally Posted by ArcticRevenge
Imo, warlocks don't make great frontliners. They're better put up high, and using the hex(spell)/eldricht blast(cantrip)/agonizing blast(invocation) combo to nuke people from afar. What you're looking for as a frontliner would be a paladin which isn't available yet, maybe an eldricht knight fighter, or a melee ranger. As for Gale, idk how you managed his stats but make sure to max out his intelligence and (same goes for all ranged characters) make sure to give him high ground, the difference is huge. You could use misty step to put him in a better position.

As an aside, nothing beats clerics for support roles. They're not necessarily exclusive healers, since you can prepare new spells every day, and offensively oriented clerics can be really scary.


Guess I'll give the cleric lady another look at then! Thank you for your input. ^_^


Originally Posted by Abits
About Gale - use magic missile. It's a spell that can't miss, and you can use it to hit multiple targets for small damage or one target for bigger damage.
About Wyll - I wouldn't use him anywhere near the front lines. Wyll needs to spam Eldrich Blast from some place high. In level 3 (I think) he gets teleportation spell. Use it to put him in a spot when he can rain hell.

Astarion - aside from being a little squishy he is very good. I found that it's best to equip him with two weapons.

About your ranger I don't know much, since I didn't really played ranged ranger yet (strangely the ranger right now has a lot of potential as melee fighter for some strange reason). I would say to take horde breaker either way, as it allows you to attack twice per turn if the enemies are close enough to each other.


Magic missile it is... I don't think I even have that ability on Gale if imma be honest, so I'll fix that either next replay or whenever I level so I can swap a spell. Thank you! laugh I'll probably bench either Wyll or Gale for the cleric lady as soon as I log in.

To your second reply: or I bench them both for the ladies. At this point I probably might as well, cause the only thing useful about them for me right now is sleep (from Gale) and the imp (from Wyll). . _ .

Originally Posted by Valzen
As a fellow ranger player, if you are missing a lot, you might just need to consider trying a build with higher dexterity. Since they don't have a lot of attack spells, most everything they do will rely on finesse melee weapons and with the bow. Without a good starting Dex, I could see them really struggling. Getting True strike as one of your starting bonuses may help. Buffs from companions as well.

For me, I have done a half wood elf hunter ranger and full wood elf beastmaster ranger, both with 16 dex at start and 18 at lvl 4. With that, I haven't had much issue with missing. Because of the good armor too I use my ranger to kind of go where needed and pull enemy attention since he can typically survive a bit better than the squishy rogues and wizards.

I have swapped between using Shadowheart, Laezel, and Astarion for front lines and at least with my ranger Shadowheart or Laezel have felt to work out better. And then I've been using Wyll and gale in the back for long range support.

So. As far as what's worked for me, I'd use someone different than Astarion to manage your frontline, tailor your ranger for movement (especially if you get the misty step amulet) and keep them on the middle ground to go where needed, with your choice of support in the back.

This game definitely has a higher rate if missing and attack chance than DOS2 and unfortunately that means you need to account for that. Unfortunately it's hard to have members good at multiple things.

(Side note: make sure you are not using the gloves of power unless going the related story route and not doing Long range attacks when enemies are close to you. Both will make your attack chance suffer)


Thanks for your input! I'll take an extra look at my dex stats. I just ran with the recommended stats when I started cause I didn't really know what I could build. laugh I have not been lucky enough to find much decent loot - I think all of my characters have like... 2-3 green items each (fortunately, all except vampire-dude has an upgraded weapon)? Other than that, it's full stock gear. :x Since you play beast master, which summon do you primarily use?

Originally Posted by nickabbey
Warlocks aren't great front liners in this game. They're marginally effective as front liners in 5E base rules, with a specific subclass (Hexblade) being the best choice for melee warlocks (afaik, that won't be in the BG3 game as they are doing PHB classes/archetypes and hexblade is in a supplemental 5e book called "Xanathar's Guide to Everything").

You COULD get away with your warlock and gale in the party, though it's magical overkill. If you did that, I'd put Astarion and Shadowheart in the party. Astartion is one of the best damage dealers in EA (especially with the thief archetype and dual wielding light finesse weapons). Shadowheart can get enough AC to manage frontline aggro, while Astarion can be used to focus damage on whomever is attacking shadowheart or will be in position to do so next round. Shadowheart would generally want to either boost her AC or bane attackers if she's acting as a frontliner, and Astarion would either make a sneak attack plus two bonus attacks with the offhand OR sneak attack + dash/jump/hide every round. Your lock would target high priority enemies and gale would fill in the blanks witih crowd control or targetted attacks to keep shadowheart from getting overwhelmed.

Alternatively, your 'lock, Gale, Shadowheart and Lae'zel would work incredibly well.

So far, I've found that if you use the skills of your team to compliment each other, almost any class combo will be effective in combat. You just have to play to your team's strengths and weaknesses and use the other game systems to your advantage when needed (like sending every explosive barrel you come across to camp, sneaking into position and transferring them to the player in position from camp through other PC's to set up insta kill traps for encounters that are too hard with your chosen group)

Personally, so far I've found any combination of warlock + wizard to be magical overkill that leaves blank spots in party makeup. Picking one or the other seems the best way to get yourself a balanced party and cover all your bases. I think there was ONE time when I played a warlock build (with laezal, astarion and shadowheart) where I had to switch out a party member for gale so I could access a spell he had that I didn't have as a scroll on my 'lock. And that was when I discovered an alternate path in to the goblin camp that required feather fall.


I see your point! I'll adjust accordingly ^_^ (the first part of your comment does not make much sense to someone not familiar with the system though laugh *newbie* But I did get the message of double caster = overkill, try something else xd )


Originally Posted by Azarielle
I found Wyll to be the least useful of my companions, however if you do use him (I tend to take him with me to goblin camp as it's kinda his mission), it's a good idea to pick up Misty step, which is also a must for Gale (and fun for Astarion actually).

As for Gale - take up magic missiles and depending of what you're fighting rotate between lvl I and II (you can also divide them which is amazing for goblins). You can also get a necklace in underdark which makes magic missiles truly amazing.

Astarion for me works best when dualwielding two shortswords and using backstabs, is also decent with bow, make sure to keep him "happy"

And then I'd probably take Lae'zal over Shadowheart (although characterwise I prefer SH by far) as she's quite amazing with that greatsword.

Also for goblin Camp - high ground and explosives FTW


Gotcha, I will probably bench both Wyll and Gale and try both Lae'zal and Shadowheart (I've saved proper gear and equipment, so that is not an issue) - currently I feel like Astarion is doing much more for me than they are, so he gets to stay... For now. I'll experiment further.

Thanks for your input, folks! Much appreicated! :]


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Looks like you've got a lot of good feedback already. I think your struggles just come from a lack of history with basic D&D mechanics which is nothing to be ashamed of.

It's important to look at abilities / weapons to understand what stats influence them. To most of us, we just know already, and we don't think about it. But for someone new, it might get lost on them that a Wizard's Firebolt uses their INT to determine chance to hit, but a Wizard's Acid Splash does not. Instead it forces the enemy to make a DEX save vs the Wizard's DC (Difficulty Check) which happens to be influenced by their INT. This is really important because against an enemy with a really high AC the Firebolt might prove way less successful, but against an enemy with really great DEX, you probably don't want to use the Acid Splash.

Similarly, melee weapons are usually using STR or DEX for their chance to hit and damage, so if you equip a battle axe on your DEX based character with low STR, you might not realize it's using your low STR now and that's why you're missing.

All that being said, +1 magic weapons will help the classes that attack with them to hit (won't help your wizard at all, though there will be future magic items that do that, but I didn't see any in the EA yet).

Personally, I found the Cleric fairly useless given how much free healing exists with abundant potions and food. However a spell like Bless is quite powerful so that is an option. I did Ranger (forgot exact choice, I focused on bow stuff) + Laz (built as a 1h / shield tank) + Wyll (as other's have mentioned, high CHA and use Eldritch Blast) + Gale (high INT, usually using Firebolt, Acid Splash, or whatever the Ice cantrip was). Ranger had the best hit chance (I think 15% higher than the other two due to +1 magic weapon and +2 to hit with bows from a ranger bow choice).

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Originally Posted by Nezix
Looks like you've got a lot of good feedback already. I think your struggles just come from a lack of history with basic D&D mechanics which is nothing to be ashamed of.

It's important to look at abilities / weapons to understand what stats influence them. To most of us, we just know already, and we don't think about it. But for someone new, it might get lost on them that a Wizard's Firebolt uses their INT to determine chance to hit, but a Wizard's Acid Splash does not. Instead it forces the enemy to make a DEX save vs the Wizard's DC (Difficulty Check) which happens to be influenced by their INT. This is really important because against an enemy with a really high AC the Firebolt might prove way less successful, but against an enemy with really great DEX, you probably don't want to use the Acid Splash.

Similarly, melee weapons are usually using STR or DEX for their chance to hit and damage, so if you equip a battle axe on your DEX based character with low STR, you might not realize it's using your low STR now and that's why you're missing.

All that being said, +1 magic weapons will help the classes that attack with them to hit (won't help your wizard at all, though there will be future magic items that do that, but I didn't see any in the EA yet).

Personally, I found the Cleric fairly useless given how much free healing exists with abundant potions and food. However a spell like Bless is quite powerful so that is an option. I did Ranger (forgot exact choice, I focused on bow stuff) + Laz (built as a 1h / shield tank) + Wyll (as other's have mentioned, high CHA and use Eldritch Blast) + Gale (high INT, usually using Firebolt, Acid Splash, or whatever the Ice cantrip was). Ranger had the best hit chance (I think 15% higher than the other two due to +1 magic weapon and +2 to hit with bows from a ranger bow choice).


Thank you for your reply! I'd imagine you're 100% correct. I am completely new to the DnD mechanics and literally had 0 experience with it when I started my BG3 game a few days ago. My inexperience is kinda why I decided to join up the EA team, to have a chance to learn the very basics now before doing a serious attempt for a game clear at release (cause let's be honest, if this would have been release I would probably have been toast already). laugh I've used the wiki as much as I can, but even though there obviously is a lot of dedicated people there - the wiki contains rather little information for someone who don't know the very basics... Which is why I turned here instead. :] But I am learning the very basic stuff, slowly but surely!

I am doing much better since I put Wyll on the bench, and followed all of the helpful tips that people gave me - I even managed to clear the entire outer goblin space (outside the building/old cathedral) with ease by engaging from the bridge rather than the door and doing some fun grease + fire combos while simply sniping down enemies approaching. Most of the small fry just died when running around in the fire.

Right now I am trying the same comp as before, but I benched Wyll for the cleric lady. I am going to try swapping her for the yellow lady (Laz, was it?) because in all honesty, she is not doing very much for me either. Like you said - health problems are usually solved by potions and I feel like I would rather have a better front-liner than a squishy cleric right now, and as I've understood it - out of our followers Laz seems to be the only viable frontline-ish option (unless you play a frontliner yourself - which I don't >.< ).


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Like others have mentioned you have solid advice thus far. It will take a little bit to understand the rules fully, but you will come to realize Action Economy is King, and finding synergies that work out well.

For spell casters, try and pay attention to what spells are concentration and what are not. Its a good habit to only have a couple concentration spells in your line up as you dont want to get caught up as a one trick pony. Try and find synergies between casters concentration spell options.



I can list a few things below on what I currently run and how it works for me:

Shadowheart:
For survivability you can have shadowheart cast Mirror Image on herself as that helps her avoiding direct attacks except silly ground effects or aoe blasts. I use her concentration checks for mostly Hold Person or Silence. Hold Person if it lands ( Humanoids only ) causes any Melee to hit gain advantage and IF it hits its an auto crit.
( At this point in the game with the goblin camp I ended up having 2 major magic items that helped her healing become quite nice. On healing another target she was able to give blade ward for 2 rounds: resistance (( Half damage )) to blunt,pierce,slash and also able to Bless target for 1 or 2 rounds cant recall ) This helped a ton as I was able to throw out healing word when needed and hit things with her mace that also did a self heal on hit.

IMO Since she is not a Life cleric I find that Healing Word is better than cure wounds due to the fact its a ranged, and a bonus action allowing you to still cast a cantrip or even attack.

Gale Evocation:
Gale try and make sure you have mage armor on all the time if possible as it lasts until next long rest. The AI targets people with the lowest HP and AC if they can help it so this may help average out the hits. There are plenty of those scrolls out there or just cast it himself as he has plenty of slots. Fog Cloud is useful if you are having trouble with mobs gaining the height advantages as it forces them to change positions. I also made gale an Evocation wizard meaning I can cast aoe spells and keep my party members safe for the most part ( 1+spell level of targets you can have them avoid all damage ). I usually cast shatter if i can get 3 or 4 mobs together.

Main Ranger Beastmaster:
My current play through is my Ranger Beastmaster as well. I went with Dual wield + Dual Wielder Feat to equip magical Rapiers for higher damage output instead of a stat boost to see how it feels. The damage output is nice with Hunters mark. Getting behind mobs right now is almost always key to success.
Currently the Spider seems overpowered compared to its other summons for the fact it can CC, Jump anywhere, higher AC AND HP than any other animal ( they need to balance this )

Lazell Battlemaster:
I ended up switching out Astarion for Lazell due to the fact that Rogues I feel are not in a good place mechanically as they are not implemented well at this time with their class features.
Lazell I went sword and board and high defense. With no magic armor I have her AC at 20 and battlemaster. The Rally is nice to pass out temp HP to anyone getting a tad low but I really enjoy menacing attack mostly due to the potential fear and CC it causes on some big brutes which then force Attacks of Opportunity with my melee characters.

This is just a few tid bits of advice hope it helps!

Jaz


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