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Here's another wild option. Admittedly based on nothing other than the way it looks.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Spellfire

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Originally Posted by azarhal
Gale doesn't seems to have Origin Moments (scenes that trigger on the overworld related to the character's story). He just have his foodies lines and camp scenes. Wyll and Shadowheart have the most. Astarion/Lae'zel has a few.

The more I look into the game files the more I'm confused about Shadowheart's magical flares up.

You can meet a Selûnite priest in the Shadow Cursed Land. He's looking for Shadowheart. Her magic flares happen when she spot him. She used the magical flares against a Sharran during her flashback training and they also happen when she kiss you after the party (according to the scene context notes). So it's not triggered by Selûne related stuff only. The priest claims he knows what it means, but she has to go an abandoned chapel in BG to learn more because Shar is too strong in the area. I find that a bit suspicious...Selûnite shouldn't have to hide in BG. confused

Her name might actually be a title: The Shadow Heart. As that is how the Selûne Priest refers to her, although it all look like temporary dialogues.

Both Shar and Selune wants her, foretelling her coming and stuff.

if she doesn't do as Shar wants, you get a super depressive Shadowheart around camp...


I expect people to complain a lot about playing Shadowheart's origin. There are situations (well at least one) where Shar tells her (you) to do things and you need to win a DC to do the opposite otherwise she assume "direct controls".

Speaking of Shar, lots of stuff in the Shadow Cursed Land for her and Shadowheart. I get the feeling people who thought it was easy to keep her around as a goody-two-shoes might have more problem in Act 1 B. Lots of it is still "work in progress" from the looks of it but still

I wanted to check if Shadowheart knew what Ketheric looked like to see if her Daisy was him. It's one of her "origin moment", but no sign of her knowing who he was. The only thing interesting is that this sound a lot like tadpole dream #2:
Ketheric: Shar whispers of you, of the great destiny you bear! Embrace it with me, and spread Her darkness across these lands!

Romancing Shadowheart got a bit complicated if Ketheric makes advances to her, lol. She can even leave the party at that point going by the dialogues.
Very interesting once again.
I was thinking Shadowheart's Daisy would be a woman (maybe a Selûnite priestess?) that was supposed to be deliberately kept from EA, seeing as Ketheric Thorm and the Nightsong are all indev for Act 1B I was expecting them to show up in EA later so I ruled them out.
Originally Posted by azarhal
Act 1 B content doesn't appear to be finished yet. The Nightsong encounter is missing subtitles for example and that is despite voice overs existing.
Do you think Act 1B / 1C will be added to EA eventually? It seems to me like that was not the plan at first, which means EA testing will be a DOS2 type affair with an over-polished intro and a more shaky narrative beyond that.


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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Very interesting once again.
I was thinking Shadowheart's Daisy would be a woman (maybe a Selûnite priestess?) that was supposed to be deliberately kept from EA, seeing as Ketheric Thorm and the Nightsong are all indev for Act 1B I was expecting them to show up in EA later so I ruled them out.
Originally Posted by azarhal
Act 1 B content doesn't appear to be finished yet. The Nightsong encounter is missing subtitles for example and that is despite voice overs existing.
Do you think Act 1B / 1C will be added to EA eventually? It seems to me like that was not the plan at first, which means EA testing will be a DOS2 type affair with an over-polished intro and a more shaky narrative beyond that.


Shadowheart's Daisy is male, she says "he" in the EA when you discuses the tadpole dreams with her regardless of the PC gender. She might not actually know the person too, as she has the same dream as the PC.

But it is quite interesting, as I think everyone else is seeing their "patron":
Gale seems to hear Mystra (from the talk he has about it)
Lae'zel sees her Queen.
Astarion sees his master.
Wyll says it's an old lover, but I suspect it's Mizora (I didn't bother validating it)

Shadowheart sees a dude she is very attracted to and not Shar. The only difference I can think of is that Shadowheart sees Shar as her mother.

------

For DOS2, they didn't have all of Act 1 (all of Fort Joy Island) in at the start and eventually added everything until you take the boat. They wanted to have the Dark Fortress (called Ketheric' city in the game files, but Duegar Encampment in-game) in for the start of EA, but were not able to do so. I expect that to be the first drop of new content we get. As for if we will get all of Act 1, well Swen always talked about the EA being Act 1, not just half of Act 1...

I also don't think we have the 80 (possible) battles promised or the 596 NPCs (from the comparison with DOS2 EA).

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Originally Posted by azarhal
lShadowheart's Daisy is male, she says "he" in the EA when you discuses the tadpole dreams with her regardless of the PC gender. She might not actually know the person too, as she has the same dream as the PC.

But it is quite interesting, as I think everyone else is seeing their "patron":
Gale seems to hear Mystra (from the talk he has about it)
Lae'zel sees her Queen.
Astarion sees his master.
Wyll says it's an old lover, but I suspect it's Mizora (I didn't bother validating it)

Shadowheart sees a dude she is very attracted to and not Shar. The only difference I can think of is that Shadowheart sees Shar as her mother.

------

For DOS2, they didn't have all of Act 1 (all of Fort Joy Island) in at the start and eventually added everything until you take the boat. They wanted to have the Dark Fortress (called Ketheric' city in the game files, but Duegar Encampment in-game) in for the start of EA, but were not able to do so. I expect that to be the first drop of new content we get. As for if we will get all of Act 1, well Swen always talked about the EA being Act 1, not just half of Act 1...

I also don't think we have the 80 (possible) battles promised or the 596 NPCs (from the comparison with DOS2 EA).
I see, good news all around then.

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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by azarhal
lShadowheart's Daisy is male, she says "he" in the EA when you discuses the tadpole dreams with her regardless of the PC gender. She might not actually know the person too, as she has the same dream as the PC.

But it is quite interesting, as I think everyone else is seeing their "patron":
Gale seems to hear Mystra (from the talk he has about it)
Lae'zel sees her Queen.
Astarion sees his master.
Wyll says it's an old lover, but I suspect it's Mizora (I didn't bother validating it)

Shadowheart sees a dude she is very attracted to and not Shar. The only difference I can think of is that Shadowheart sees Shar as her mother.

------

For DOS2, they didn't have all of Act 1 (all of Fort Joy Island) in at the start and eventually added everything until you take the boat. They wanted to have the Dark Fortress (called Ketheric' city in the game files, but Duegar Encampment in-game) in for the start of EA, but were not able to do so. I expect that to be the first drop of new content we get. As for if we will get all of Act 1, well Swen always talked about the EA being Act 1, not just half of Act 1...

I also don't think we have the 80 (possible) battles promised or the 596 NPCs (from the comparison with DOS2 EA).
I see, good news all around then.


It's also possible they reduced the scope of the EA after realizing how big Act 1 was.

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I think I discovered why the Nightsong quest has stuff missing (and her quest ending with "not in the underdark" the moment you set foot in the underdark).

In the datafiles, there is text saying that Shadowheart read a book at the grove that mention a hidden Shar Temple in the area (not in the EA as far as I know). Basically what the Nightsong quest says: under the Selûne Temple. I think the Underground Fort used to be a Shar temple in an older iteration (hence the Sharran Gem now renamed Bloodmoon Gem), but it's now just another part of the Selûne Temple. Her dialogues about having mixed Shar/Selûne statues was probably related to finding that place. It seems everything Shar was moved to the "Ketheric's city" section now. The Harper's note saying the local Selûnites were heretical might be related too (aka old stuff that will probably have to be changed now).

That means a good chunk of Shadowheart story content was moved too I guess. Could explain why she sometimes disappear from the camp, her triggers are broken because stuff were moved as well.

And the Nightsong/Shadowheart confrontation is weird. I think this is old stuff because the narration is in 1st person still in it. I said it before, but the Nightsong seems to have two personalities: one pro-Shar and one anti-Shar...and both shows up in that exchange. She is warning Shadowheart that if she displease Shar too much she will end up cursed like her, but other lines are basically her telling Shadowheart to displease Shar...

Looking at Shadowheart story content, I can't decide if she's going to go totally batshit insane by the end or not. There is only so much conflicting gaslighting someone can process.

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Originally Posted by azarhal
And the Nightsong/Shadowheart confrontation is weird. I think this is old stuff because the narration is in 1st person still in it. I said it before, but the Nightsong seems to have two personalities: one pro-Shar and one anti-Shar...and both shows up in that exchange. She is warning Shadowheart that if she displease Shar too much she will end up cursed like her, but other lines are basically her telling Shadowheart to displease Shar...

Looking at Shadowheart story content, I can't decide if she's going to go totally batshit insane by the end or not. There is only so much conflicting gaslighting someone can process.
I got that vibe as well when going through the voicelines, but it seems to me that the Nightsong is posessed by Shar when she's saying the pro-Shar lines. The tadpole breaks this posession and then she start saying the panicked anti-Shar lines, until she is taken over again.

Also yes, Shadowheart is not even a person anymore at this point lol, just a tool the Sharran cult of BG uses to get the Gith artifact.

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Originally Posted by Vhaldez

Also yes, Shadowheart is not even a person anymore at this point lol, just a tool the Sharran cult of BG uses to get the Gith artifact.

Always remember Shadowheart might be the player character.

And some scenes likely play out differently depending on if Shadowheart is an NPC or the protagonist.

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Originally Posted by FrostyFardragon
Originally Posted by Vhaldez

Also yes, Shadowheart is not even a person anymore at this point lol, just a tool the Sharran cult of BG uses to get the Gith artifact.

Always remember Shadowheart might be the player character.

And some scenes likely play out differently depending on if Shadowheart is an NPC or the protagonist.


This is a trickiest part yes. Because if Shadowheart is the player character, then having her being just a puppet is concerning.

Just like in DOS 2, there will probably be background cinematics for each origin characters, so we can learn more about their past and what happened to them. Cause I would feel it strange that playing as Gale, you have not a clear idea what Mystra means to him and how he got his artefact 'curse' in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Nyanko

This is a trickiest part yes. Because if Shadowheart is the player character, then having her being just a puppet is concerning.


I think we can easily conclude that PC Shadowheart will be able to figure out that they are being manipulated, and decide for themselves how they want to act.

NPC Shadowheart may be helped by the protagonist, manipulated by the protagonist, or the protagonist may fail to do either successfully, resulting in the "puppet" outcome.

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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
I got that vibe as well when going through the voicelines, but it seems to me that the Nightsong is posessed by Shar when she's saying the pro-Shar lines. The tadpole breaks this posession and then she start saying the panicked anti-Shar lines, until she is taken over again.

Also yes, Shadowheart is not even a person anymore at this point lol, just a tool the Sharran cult of BG uses to get the Gith artifact.

The lines I'm talking about aren't in the voiced lines and she doesn't appear to be panicking.
In case 1, the Nightsong is telling Shadowheart that gaining back her memories will anger Shar. She plays on SH's insecurity quite a bit.
In case 2, the Nightsong is encouraging Shadowheart to remember because she is meant for greater things and to follow her "destiny". No warning about making Shar angry.

There is another person who talks about Shadowheart's great destiny: Ketheric (Chosen of Shar). Shar told him about it...

There is one thing that can reconcile the two, Shadowheart brings up Shar testing her. Case #1 is the test, case #2 is when Shar is pleased by the result. crazy

and I don't think she is a "puppet", well not anymore than anyone who worship gods in the Forgotten Realms. lol.

Last edited by azarhal; 04/11/20 06:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by azarhal
and I don't think she is a "puppet", well not anymore than anyone who worship gods in the Forgotten Realms. lol.
Yeah I think that's where we're not on the same wavelength, FR gods just seem to puppet people left and right so this might be the norm for clerics in general. If the PC is a cleric they are also following their god's instructions through the voices in their head...

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Is there any news about Mizora in the game data? Will's demonic girlfriend looks promising.

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Is there any news about Mizora in the game data? Will's demonic girlfriend looks promising.
Here are her voice lines.

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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Is there any news about Mizora in the game data? Will's demonic girlfriend looks promising.
Here are her voice lines.

Thank you so much

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Thank you so much
You're welcome. It all relates to her pod by the river and her capture by Spike, seems it's all communicated to Wyll through telepathy or his eye.

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Is there any news about Mizora in the game data? Will's demonic girlfriend looks promising.



There is some dialogue text where the PC appears to be able to make a deal with Mizora.

But I can't say if that's limited to Wyll (i.e. a flashback) or if Wyll dies and you find Mizora or what comes of doing that or what the deals is.

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Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by azarhal
and I don't think she is a "puppet", well not anymore than anyone who worship gods in the Forgotten Realms. lol.
Yeah I think that's where we're not on the same wavelength, FR gods just seem to puppet people left and right so this might be the norm for clerics in general. If the PC is a cleric they are also following their god's instructions through the voices in their head...


As a bonus, you get a tadpole with a master who talks to you in BG3. wink

Shadowheart has an hilarious voiced line regarding that. Someone is talking to her mentally and she snark them that they are the tadpole because they lack personality. laugh

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Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Is there any news about Mizora in the game data? Will's demonic girlfriend looks promising.



There is some dialogue text where the PC appears to be able to make a deal with Mizora.

But I can't say if that's limited to Wyll (i.e. a flashback) or if Wyll dies and you find Mizora or what comes of doing that or what the deals is.

Do we know who Mizora's father is? Is it Raphael?

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Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Is there any news about Mizora in the game data? Will's demonic girlfriend looks promising.



There is some dialogue text where the PC appears to be able to make a deal with Mizora.

But I can't say if that's limited to Wyll (i.e. a flashback) or if Wyll dies and you find Mizora or what comes of doing that or what the deals is.



It may depend on if the PC has the [Warlock] tag.

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