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Joined: Oct 2020
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No romance numbers for Wyll or Lae'zel? What about Astareon? I think if fewer people are responding to Wyll, it's because his interactions are the most bugged. We all know he's the most attractive of the NPC's.

I built my last character as a life domain cleric of Bhaal so I could do without having Shadowheart and Gale in the party at all. I find Gale creepy and Shadowheart's incessant "Oh wouldn't you like to know" type interjections are as annoying as they are pointless. **Not Really a Spoiler Alert** She's a cleric of Shar, the goddess whose holy symbol is literally painted on her chest, there's no way that takes a DC 18 Persuasion check to get her to admit that so we can move on with the story. Especially when seemingly everyone knows my cleric is dedicated to Bhaal, the god of murder.

Also, any word on making "Us" the intellect devourer a more permanent party member? A rescue quest would be awesome. If Us could have psionic powers that mimicked either the cleric or wizard (maybe either as "subclass" builds) that would be even better (yes, I want better options for excluding Shadowheart and Gale, can you blame me?).

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I don't play good or bad ways. There is no such thing. It is a decision and a matter of opinion of the individual individual whether something is good or bad. I consider stealing to be completely normal and vital for me, it's a good option, but it's bad for me to buy overpriced because I see it as a rip off. So bad in my eyes that's why I steal everything and everyone. And if two parties are in a row I kill both arguments eliminated. So I did that with the Tyrs trailers and the devil's head I threw my head into the river finished the quest.



The same when an NPC comes to me in an outrageously insulting way. Then I hit him he dies he's unlucky, he wants my help so he should guard his tongue or die that's how easy it is for me. In the military I let people do push-ups when they were disobedient. Demand respect but don't have any of these druids themselves. Shout at me that should be respectful but insult me ​​on every corner and want my help. The result is probably clear. I react to such actions in my sense of doing well for myself.

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The problem is too often in regards to good and evil, too many companies fail to consider the idea of rewards being a way to entice them either direction. They think that good should be rewarded and evil should be punished immediately. By separating rewards into types, you can better recognize the drawbacks and benefits of being good OR evil.

Rewards, in general, fall into these two categories.

Physical Rewards (Gold, Gear, Spells)

Social Rewards (access to areas, people willing to work with you, specific vendors)

Since Good characters aren't expecting rewards, you grant them more social rewards early on, then physical rewards later on. This can of course make things difficult, but you also have a lot of doors (pun fully intended) that are opened to you. So it should hopefully balance out as a result.

Since Evil characters are expecting rewards for what they do, you give it to them. If they want access to special services or the like, they have to do more to gain access to them. This lack of specialized services early on will also make things harder for them as they don't have any doors opened for them. They want a door opened, they have to find a key, steal a key, bribe or intimidate their way through. Again, this should hopefully balance out in the long run.

GOOD: Earlier Social Rewards, Delayed Physical Rewards
EVIL: Earlier Physical Rewards, Delayed Social Rewards

That way you're being rewarded no matter how you play, but both sides come with challenges due to your choices. Your choices should of course have consequences. Access to rewards (and the type of rewards) should be affected by what you're doing. Good characters won't be getting gear more inclined to do evil actions. Evil characters won't be getting gear more inclined to good actions. There are lots of ways to make both sides rewarding and punishing at the same time.

We're still probably early enough they could use this for ways to make both sides rewarding, just in different ways.

Last edited by KentDA; 29/10/20 08:14 AM. Reason: grammar
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I think they track all sorts of things, even things that don't really impact the story. The pet the dog came across as more of a side note than anything. Just something cute. I didn't take the stats they listed as bragging or anything, just more of an interesting sort of thing. Especially with their comments about "everyone seems to want to kill Gale."

They just want us to see early on that our testing is providing results, some being interesting and amusing, others being actually vital.

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"Evil" playthroughs are difficult when the storylines usually offered don't allow for a perception or tone to be at least implied that going to extreme measures for the player character is more about pragmatism or doing what is necessary to achieve desired goals at the expense of "friendlier" possibilities?

For example, in the earlyiest encounters with both Lae'zel and Shadowheart each stress that time is a-wastin' to find a means to get purged of the tadpole. Given the dire change that is impending, bypassing social norms and just getting that done seems like a pretty good reason to not be everyones pal to me.



Last edited by Capt.Wells; 29/10/20 11:18 AM.

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Originally Posted by Flafnir
I don't play good or bad ways. There is no such thing. It is a decision and a matter of opinion of the individual individual whether something is good or bad. I consider stealing to be completely normal and vital for me, it's a good option, but it's bad for me to buy overpriced because I see it as a rip off. So bad in my eyes that's why I steal everything and everyone. And if two parties are in a row I kill both arguments eliminated. So I did that with the Tyrs trailers and the devil's head I threw my head into the river finished the quest.



The same when an NPC comes to me in an outrageously insulting way. Then I hit him he dies he's unlucky, he wants my help so he should guard his tongue or die that's how easy it is for me. In the military I let people do push-ups when they were disobedient. Demand respect but don't have any of these druids themselves. Shout at me that should be respectful but insult me ​​on every corner and want my help. The result is probably clear. I react to such actions in my sense of doing well for myself.

This is evil play. You can try to spin it however you want, but this is evil. And in the Forgotten Realms setting, if the game accurately follows the setting's long-established lore, you should be called for and be made to bear responsibility for your evil actions.

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Originally Posted by Flafnir
I don't play good or bad ways. There is no such thing. It is a decision and a matter of opinion of the individual individual whether something is good or bad. I consider stealing to be completely normal and vital for me, it's a good option, but it's bad for me to buy overpriced because I see it as a rip off. So bad in my eyes that's why I steal everything and everyone. And if two parties are in a row I kill both arguments eliminated. So I did that with the Tyrs trailers and the devil's head I threw my head into the river finished the quest.

The same when an NPC comes to me in an outrageously insulting way. Then I hit him he dies he's unlucky, he wants my help so he should guard his tongue or die that's how easy it is for me. In the military I let people do push-ups when they were disobedient. Demand respect but don't have any of these druids themselves. Shout at me that should be respectful but insult me ​​on every corner and want my help. The result is probably clear. I react to such actions in my sense of doing well for myself.


It's funny that you say "I don't play good or bad ways", and then proceed to describe perfectly a character with the Chaotic Evil - Stupid alignment. That's not a personal dig at you, just noting that your first sentence is disproven by the rest of your post.

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kanisatha, I was tempted to comment on how he was just trying to provide excuses. But yeah, his view was straight up "you piss me off, its your poor luck, because I'll kill you."

I've known drill sergeants, and they don't just give push ups and the like because someone offended them. Or its more accurate to say the best ones don't do that. Because if you assign PT based on your mood, what you'll quickly get is trainees that HATE you and will do what they can to make YOUR life miserable. That's not conducive to healthy training. A drill sergeant is there to improve their physical conditioning, not to be a petty tyrant for every perceived wrong.

I was trying to avoid discussing specifics about what actions are good and what are evil. Because that just simply opens up a can of worms I don't think any of us want to go down really.

I was focused more on how they view rewards. IE Good characters tend not to expect rewards while Evil characters expect compensation. Thus my comment on how to handle a rewards system where being Evil AND being Good is rewarding, just in different ways.

A good character wouldn't consider an Angel-Slaying Sword a reward. They'd see it more as a quest item to see about destroying. An Evil character would drool over receiving such a sword on the other hand.

Last edited by KentDA; 30/10/20 12:48 AM. Reason: grammar
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I wrote a big message detailing what players most often ask to fix in an evil way, I collected everything in one place. You can read my open letter to Larian and discuss at the link:

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=722417#Post722417


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Originally Posted by Stabbey
It's funny that you say "I don't play good or bad ways", and then proceed to describe perfectly a character with the Chaotic Evil - Stupid alignment. That's not a personal dig at you, just noting that your first sentence is disproven by the rest of your post.

Originally Posted by KentDA
kanisatha, I was tempted to comment on how he was just trying to provide excuses. But yeah, his view was straight up "you piss me off, its your poor luck, because I'll kill you."

Right on.

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I was playing a female lolth drow, i was going to side with the drow/goblins.

Then a worm , a slave, a hobgoblin boss order me to do something !! meee !!! a female drow!!!

I told him to do it himself

He goes all angry what have you saiiiddd?

I say, you dont order me , do it yourself !!

He called me an enemy of the absolute and I had to kill everyone

I was playing in character, the npcs were playing stupid.

Last edited by Akari; 02/11/20 11:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Akari
I was playing a female lolth drow, i was going to side with the drow/goblins.

Then a worm , a slave, a hobgoblin boss order me to do something !! meee !!! a female drow!!!

I told him to do it himself

He goes all angry what have you saiiiddd?

I say, you dont order me , do it yourself !!

He called me an enemy of the absolute and I had to kill everyone

I was playing in character, the npcs were playing stupid.


You stood with the Tieflings. Good outweighs evil, it seems.

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The big issue at hand is how WotC decided to throw alignments out, without thinking about how intrinsic alignment is to the cosmic lore of Forgotten Realms.

It's like removing the ability for Mario to power up a "crouch jump" despite being able to do so in every Mario since Super Mario 2, with the excuse that "it doesn't really affect any game play".

Alignment isn't just a set of guidelines for how to pretend to be your character, alignment is the metaphysical construction of the FR universe.

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
The big issue at hand is how WotC decided to throw alignments out, without thinking about how intrinsic alignment is to the cosmic lore of Forgotten Realms.

It's like removing the ability for Mario to power up a "crouch jump" despite being able to do so in every Mario since Super Mario 2, with the excuse that "it doesn't really affect any game play".

Alignment isn't just a set of guidelines for how to pretend to be your character, alignment is the metaphysical construction of the FR universe.


Everyone chooses their own destiny, the player's decisions cannot be predicted. In any case, the Alignment will most likely change during the game. If you make this line in the description of companions and neutral characters, they will lose their mystery.


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Originally Posted by ned7000
No romance numbers for Wyll or Lae'zel? What about Astareon? I think if fewer people are responding to Wyll, it's because his interactions are the most bugged. We all know he's the most attractive of the NPC's.


You take that back you.....!

(There, there Gale, it's alright my sexy stud. The mean person was just kidding.)

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
The big issue at hand is how WotC decided to throw alignments out, without thinking about how intrinsic alignment is to the cosmic lore of Forgotten Realms.

It's like removing the ability for Mario to power up a "crouch jump" despite being able to do so in every Mario since Super Mario 2, with the excuse that "it doesn't really affect any game play".

Alignment isn't just a set of guidelines for how to pretend to be your character, alignment is the metaphysical construction of the FR universe.



Alignments are coming back, but they won't have a lot of mechanics associated to them.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/763351879

• 24:05: Why no Alignment system? Because WotC is moving away from Alignment as a constraint on dialogue choices.
• 25:07: Alignment will be added to character creation, because some people want it, but don't expect a lot of mechanics attached to it.

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Hello? Anybody at Larian here? Weeks without updates does not bode well. I keep hoping they'll fix the atrocious controls and camera, but so far it's silence. You guys aren't very good at communicating and keeping your community in the loop.

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Originally Posted by KingNothing69
Hello? Anybody at Larian here? Weeks without updates does not bode well. I keep hoping they'll fix the atrocious controls and camera, but so far it's silence. You guys aren't very good at communicating and keeping your community in the loop.


Well, Belgium went back to a strict lockdown so it might not help much to set up community updates.

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Originally Posted by TheOtter

[Quote]
That and there is a general lack of story/roleplay incentive to be evil in most of these games.
When I played my own drow character and met Minthara, only to learn that she seemingly abandoned Lolth for servitude of this 'absolute'... sorry darling, that is a stabbing. One could argue that a drow could see the benefit of manipulating the situation, use it to kick the asses of the druids, then stab Minthara to death for abandoning the goddess, and be totally happy.



I rolled a Drow expecting the Minthara would be more interactive...like Hey another drow for the Absolute! Tadpole mind touch giving insight into the plan. Nope. All I found with the drow was the better vision in the dark, no better stealth.. sigh.


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The writer who should write Evil root (Larian's opinion):
[Linked Image]


The writer who should write Evil root (players opinion):
[Linked Image]


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