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Originally Posted by Abits
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems.

An optimistic note to end on. " this comment is so wrong and makes it very hard for me to come into Larian's defence.


It sounded like a mockery on their part, given that there are a lot of topics on the forum with feedback about evil root, where it is explained in detail what they did wrong and how to do it better. 50-50 should be Larian's goal, and it's totally possible if they listen to us.
(not Us with nautiloid)

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i think we can all agree that while we have been enjoying the game and ea content for the most part thus far, that there are some significant forum topics (combat gameplay, camera/companion controls, narrative/story elements) that get alot of discussion here that would benefit larian to comment on, even if just to say that they are aware and interested in seeing what the community thinks

as someone who was late to the larian dos1/2 party and isnt as familiar with what the ea process for those games were, is there any insight or expectations the community can take from larian's responses to feedback for those games that we can apply here to bg3?

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Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Originally Posted by Tethtoril
Maybe if we got the community to run around on the map spelling RTWP with their footsteps...


Hmmm, that means we who don't like it would have to run around and write NO all over. But that discussion is already handled in another thread and I have come to the conclusion that Vometia don't want to see it spill over to other threads. So I will leave it at that smile


Fucks sake, your game is being made, let me try to get mine.

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Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool

I like jump, and shove and height advantage, and surfaces, and the action economy, and I don't care about the hp bloat, or things people are claiming are too hard/easy, or about barrels, which i have never picked up, I don't think its very much like DoS 1&2, neither of which I really liked, except visually, which is fine imo. And I don't care about D&D tabletop, or some sort of magic fidelity to "the books". I am far more interested in bug fixes, stability, combat speed and hanging (which falls under bugs really), plot consistency, story quality and role-playing opportunities, all of which could do with some work from what I have experienced, but all in all its seems like a good game.

I'm just one of those people who are quietly enjoying the game as it stands.


May I guess that you're mainly here because BG3 is the next Larian's game and not the next Baldur's Gate game and/or D&D game and/or that stand in the FR ? smile
Serious question, that's not some sort of judgement.


Removing my original post, I can say I love Jump and Shove because they match more closely what my scenery chewing group does in any RPG we play, D&D or otherwise.


I also like jump and shove, but it's ridiculously implemented atm smile

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Originally Posted by nation
as someone who was late to the larian dos1/2 party and isnt as familiar with what the ea process for those games were, is there any insight or expectations the community can take from larian's responses to feedback for those games that we can apply here to bg3?

The problem with a lot of features currently subject to criticism is that it's a "now or never" scenario.
There's no "Maybe they'll talk about this in few months". They either recognize that there is a problem immediately (and then they can feel free to take all the time they want to fix it) or they can keep pretending all is jolly and dandy and let these issues cripple the overall quality of their product.

Which would be a shame, because there's so much here to love.
I've been playing the Baldur's Gate games since the day the first one launched, I loved them for years, I often listed BG2 as possibly my favorite RPG of all times* and I still think Larian here have the building blocks ready to create a game capable to surpass the originals.
IF they readjust the aim now in some minor areas.


* despise a certain amount of shortcomings.









Last edited by Tuco; 27/10/20 07:08 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Abits
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems.

An optimistic note to end on. " this comment is so wrong and makes it very hard for me to come into Larian's defence.


It sounded like a mockery on their part, given that there are a lot of topics on the forum with feedback about evil root, where it is explained in detail what they did wrong and how to do it better. 50-50 should be Larian's goal, and it's totally possible if they listen to us.
(not Us with nautiloid)

Not only here. everywhere! even on reddit people don't automatically downvote you if you say the evil path needs work. I don't know which option is worse - that Larian is not aware that people think that, or that they are aware and trying to piss on us.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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i think they will start looking at improvements at proper time, all we propose here are improvements, you don't try to make your product nicer or cooler while things are still broken in many places, at least you shouldn't do that, is all about priorities

Last edited by brunotavm; 27/10/20 07:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by nation
as someone who was late to the larian dos1/2 party and isnt as familiar with what the ea process for those games were, is there any insight or expectations the community can take from larian's responses to feedback for those games that we can apply here to bg3?

The problem with a lot of features currently subject to criticism is that it's a "now or never" scenario.
There's no "Maybe they'll talk about this in few months". They either recognize that there is a problem immediately (and then they can feel free to take all the time they want to fix it) or they can keep pretending all is jolly and dandy and let these issues cripple the overall quality of their product.

Which would be a shame, because there's so much here to love.
I've been playing the Baldur's Gate games since the day the first one launched, I loved them for years, I often listed BG2 as possibly my favorite RPG of all times* and I still think Larian here have the building blocks ready to create a game capable to surpass the originals.
IF they readjust the aim now in some minor areas.


* despise a certain amount of shortcomings.



I have the same feelings as you (and I usually agree with you) but I think more and more that we will both be disappointed...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 27/10/20 07:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
I like jump, and shove and height advantage, and surfaces, and the action economy, and I don't care about the hp bloat, or things people are claiming are too hard/easy, or about barrels, which i have never picked up, I don't think its very much like DoS 1&2, neither of which I really liked, except visually, which is fine imo. And I don't care about D&D tabletop, or some sort of magic fidelity to "the books". I am far more interested in bug fixes, stability, combat speed and hanging (which falls under bugs really), plot consistency, story quality and role-playing opportunities, all of which could do with some work from what I have experienced, but all in all its seems like a good game.

I'm just one of those people who are quietly enjoying the game as it stands.

Thank you for posting. As with most feedback, people who are unhappy (or extremely ecstatic) are more likely to post. Posts from people in the middle of that spectrum (I see that this was your first post) are invaluable for gauging the true opinions of players.

If you haven't already, could you take a few minutes to fill out the survey on various mechanics https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=712680&gonew=1#UNREAD ? I'm not the survey's creator; I'm just in favor of the data collection.

Edit: @Tethtoril, the survey above is collecting data on which people are familiar with 5e rules or not. It's likely not a great representative sample, but it is something

Yeah bro i definately filled that out as soon as i knew it existed.

I've deleted facebook due to the silliness and politicization of all things or i wouldve shared it on there too.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
At some point in the future I'd also love to know if I'll be ever able to enjoy this game with a control scheme that doesn't completely blow ass.

Playing the Wrath of the Righteous alpha and then moving back to BG3 feels like suddenly becoming physically impaired, when it comes to controlling your party.
Which is impressive on its own, given that in theory I should absolutely dislike the RTWP combat of the former, but it controls so much better in every other scenario.


Ah, a fellow wrath tester. After playing both it's hard not to compare the two, for me wrath is winning out by a huge margin. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by brunotavm
i think they will start looking at improvements at proper time, all we propose here are improvements, you don't try to make your product nicer or cooler while things are still broken in many places, at least you shouldn't do that, is all about priorities

true. but still:
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems.

An optimistic note to end on. "
that's it I'm adding this line to my signature

Last edited by Abits; 27/10/20 07:36 PM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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In 3 weeks they never communicated on combat mechanics and other feedbacks, i think that it shows quite well that they will never do it in the future...
I liked the 40 hours of my run except for many things that are listed in the feedback threads, but let's be honest, they have a vision of what their Baldur's gate should be and they will never deviate from their path.
Sad but i have no hope regarding feedbacks listening .

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Originally Posted by Calim
In 3 weeks they never communicated on combat mechanics and other feedbacks, i think that it shows quite well that they will never do it in the future...
I liked the 40 hours of my run except for many things that are listed in the feedback threads, but let's be honest, they have a vision of what their Baldur's gate should be and they will never deviate from their path.
Sad but i have no hope regarding feedbacks listening .

They didn't communicate about anything don't exclude the other aspects of the game they said nothing about

Last edited by Abits; 27/10/20 07:42 PM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Abits
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems.

An optimistic note to end on. " this comment is so wrong and makes it very hard for me to come into Larian's defence.


I work in data science and analytics. I really hope some marketer wrote that to be cute because if those are the insights their analysts derived from this, I have zero confidence in Larian Studios’ capability to correctly analyze any data.

I’ve remained neutral-to-optimistic on my experience so far, but this latest communication kicked my enthusiasm for the game square in the nuts.

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Clearly the neat stats they've shown us so far are just fun facts they want to present to humor us. Like who players are romancing or how many times the dog has been pet. Doesn't make me think "they're using this data to conclude that Shadowheart needs to be more attractive". Similarly, I wouldn't think anything of the good vs evil route.

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Originally Posted by Schepel
Originally Posted by Sharet
Originally Posted by Limz
Originally Posted by Tuco
Yeah, this update pissed me off a bit.
Not for the lack of big changes in the patch (I already said more than once that minor hotfixes are all I'm expecting on the long term) but because the official post that accompanied the patch spent most of its length throwing useless factoids at us without even PRETENDING to acknowledge (let alone address) the most recurring points of criticism.


You know aside from a few people this place is nearly an echo chamber and the population is quite small; you have the same 5-6 retards bitching about 5e not being RAW, you have a bunch of people requesting for X or Y class, a bunch of bugs that are probably going to be addressed first, and a handful of QoL.

Even some of the most communicative devs (GGG for example) will not acknowledge what people think are major concerns unless it actually is. They have a ton more data than we do and we have no idea what their internal state is.


At the end of the day we represent a very small portion of the user base and most of the missing content isn't even released so the weight of our feedback is a bit diminished.

It's whatever though, if you want them to listen you'll need to get a nice tidal wave of criticism going and I think their focus is going to be more on the narrative side of things at the end of the day.


All true, what it bothers me tho it's that they incentives us, the "small player base", to report our feedback here in the forum and on steam. If they ask us to do so and then completely ignore our feedback then we should be rightfully pissed off.

I don't demand anything, they are not required to implement all the feedback just because, I'm just asking for them to consider and respond to our concerns (since we paid 60€). Why should we care how many times the dog was petted? It's cute and all but this isn't what updates should be about.


What bothers me is that you - and others! - seem to mistake the fact Larian asks for our feedback for the power to decide. It is one thing to listen and quite another to fully adopt whatever might be suggested. Which, I might add, is contradictory at the best of times. Some people may pretend their point of view is universally shared, but the truth is that we, as a group, tend to disagree with one another. Furthermore, has any of you considered that it might take a bit more time to implement various suggestions IF they are deemed worthwhile? Changes aren't trivial. Quite apart from possible balance concerns, anything that is changed may require new dialogue to be recorded, after said dialogue has been written in the first place, cinematics, plot changes, map changes and the list goes on.


Did you read the part where I say "I don't demand anything, they are not required to implement all the feedback just because"?

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Originally Posted by Tuco
The problem with a lot of features currently subject to criticism is that it's a "now or never" scenario.
There's no "Maybe they'll talk about this in few months". They either recognize that there is a problem immediately (and then they can feel free to take all the time they want to fix it) or they can keep pretending all is jolly and dandy and let these issues cripple the overall quality of their product.

Which would be a shame, because there's so much here to love.
I've been playing the Baldur's Gate games since the day the first one launched, I loved them for years, I often listed BG2 as possibly my favorite RPG of all times* and I still think Larian here have the building blocks ready to create a game capable to surpass the originals.
IF they readjust the aim now in some minor areas.


* despise a certain amount of shortcomings.


Very well said. Those are big decisions to be made, but they need to be made (or at least seriously discussed internally) now, not when the game is about to be released. I'm not saying they should do anything without proper consideration or churn out the patch with 3 overhauls tomorrow - but now is the time to start doing something about underlying systems in the game.

That said - perhaps something IS being done about those and we just don't know that. Perhaps they are internally testing stuff we've been vigorously discussing over the past weeks and aren't telling us so we can't tell them "U FUCKEN PROMISED" should they change their minds.

Though even then - it would alleviate some... player anxiety if they stated something like "We are aware of several major points of discussion regarding game systems and we are working on some of them. We'll share more specifics once we feel more confident about releasing these for public testing.".

If I'm not mistaken, Swen said (German streamers twitch interview) that they were planning to release some info on "this feature is currently in the works". I'm very surprised it's still not here. Like people have been suggesting the dialogue improvements (the whole party talks) since EA launched and we know (from the same interview) it's something that was supposed to be included on EA release but wasn't ready.

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Originally Posted by Limz
[...]
Even some of the most communicative devs (GGG for example) will not acknowledge what people think are major concerns unless it actually is. [...]

True. GGG's commuication is probably the best in the industry. I recall during Closed Beta (man I miss the Fellshrine runs) I issued some serious negative feedback within the game, not even the forums. After a few hours I had a PM in my inbox from Chris Wilson apologizing. I'm not kidding. Still got the PM in my box after all those years. I felt pretty bad though after receiving it and apologized back wink

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Originally Posted by TravelingBuddha

Originally Posted by Abits
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems.

An optimistic note to end on. " this comment is so wrong and makes it very hard for me to come into Larian's defence.


I work in data science and analytics. I really hope some marketer wrote that to be cute because if those are the insights their analysts derived from this, I have zero confidence in Larian Studios’ capability to correctly analyze any data.

I’ve remained neutral-to-optimistic on my experience so far, but this latest communication kicked my enthusiasm for the game square in the nuts.


Those release are mostly going to marketing oriented. They're under no obligation to share in depth analysis with us, and to be honest, doing such would turn off a lot of audiences.

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People need to realize this is beta and were bug smashers that's it. God i hope you can mo1d this game

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