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Joined: Nov 2016
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I really like the decision making and fun choices surrounding dipping. A melee character usually lacks those creative options in the table top world.
Adding surfaces for them to move towards, increase their power, decisions, and choice is a great implementation for these classes. However, it seems a lot of people feel like surfaces and arrowheads is too much like Divinity or complain its too powerful as a bonus action and breaks too many 5e balance rules.

What if oiling your blades/ arrows/ weapons was an option then that replaces surfaces?
This would free up a lot more creativity for the dev team and help balance things out easier with gold/ time/ availability unlike surface effects that are usually a static, free, hard to make sense of in certain terrains/ balance/ etc.
I think surfaces can still happen, but only be applied by surrounding nature/ magic.
Then you would require a potion/ oil/ salve to apply the surface bonuses to your weapons?

Some examples I came up with that shows how much more creative you can get with oils than surfaces;
1. Chromatic Tar. Allows your weapons to become coated in any surface as a bonus action for X amount of time/ gold
2. Firebrand Potion. Adds 1d4 fire damage to bladed weapons or arrows for X time/ or can create a bonfire if thrown.
3. Bonebreaking Salve. Increases weight with your bludgeoning weapon but increases a chance to know enemies prone.
4. Oil of Sharpness. It applies a +2 bonus to attacks for 1 hour or to 5 pieces of ammunition for X gold. (just using numbers here, not expecting balance)
5. Goblins Bane Deals 1d4 more damage to goblinoids for X amount of time.

By replacing the special arrows and surface puddles, I feel like oils would help bring a deeper sense of 5e D&D realism, encourage spending/ choices for the more boring classes that don't use scrolls/ magic

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Somewhat related to topic, but not quite as cool as your suggestions, may I also mention that candles you drop on the floor during combat should not make our weapons flaming ?
In fact, candles should not, in any situation, make a weapon or arrow do fire damage.

Now, if the weapon is coated in oil beforehand, sure the candle can ignite the oil.

Last edited by Baraz; 27/10/20 07:13 PM.
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Just remove dipping.
This is so unrealistic, even in the FR^^

At least your suggestion is better than what we actually have... But I'd rather find an awesome +1d4 fire damage sword, a +1D4 poison dagger or a +1d4 elec bow than being able to dip everything in every encounters...

I really hate that they'll balance the game arround such concept.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 27/10/20 07:20 PM.
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I agree to remove the dipping but don't let a creative chance slip away!

Oils/ salves/ potions can easily re[place this and become something for a melee character to shop for and give some creative choice to his otherwise lackluster combat decisions!

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Oils are fine as long its a finite resource. I did find some oils actually and dont mind that.

But please removing Dipping.

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Chm ... i like dipping ...
Oly thing i dont like about it is the fact that all i could dip in so far was fire and spiderpoison. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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This is a good suggestion. Dipping is kind of weird currently as you can ignite a metal blade with a candle. If you had to coat your weapon in grease before hand or dipped it in oil and then set it on fire it'd make more sense and be more like a fun creative choice a player might make in DnD.

"I rush to the vat of oil and plunge my sword in! Then I take my torch and set it on FIRE."

"Congrats, you now have a flaming sword for a few rounds."

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I dont mind the idea behind dipping, so long as it makes sense. Like lighting up a torch (even with a candle) makes sense because they generally have flamable substances on the top so even a very small fire could light up the torch.

It giving you a method of making your weapon attacks flaming though.... Uhm, no. Like some others suggested, unless you use some sort of coating first it shouldnt do anything to your sword.

Keep the mechanic but fine tune where and how it can be used.

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Some good ideas in this thread. I'd be for both oils (with limited availability/effectiveness) and tweaking dipping so it's more realistic. Oil+flame? Yeah, add like +1 fire damage to the weapon for a few rounds.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Just remove dipping.
This is so unrealistic, even in the FR^^

At least your suggestion is better than what we actually have... But I'd rather find an awesome +1d4 fire damage sword, a +1D4 poison dagger or a +1d4 elec bow than being able to dip everything in every encounters...

I really hate that they'll balance the game arround such concept.

Irony, right? Dipping is unrealistic, even in FR, but give me a sword that does fire damage?

I can see lighting arrows on fire, they are, after all, wood. Even for the "I want realism, but only the realism I like" crowd, wood burns, and you can light it on fire with a match. Bonus points if you realized that some matches are even made out of wood. Melee weapons, on the other hand, I've never actually done it, because I don't see how it would actually work, depending on the weapon, anyway. If I had a quarterstaff, for example, maybe? This is yet another of those "non-issue issues", because anyone that truly believes it breaks the game can simply refrain from doing it. If I were to go off of just reading the forum, I would be left believing that every square inch of ground except a walking path was covered with barrels just waiting to be picked up or set on fire. Fortunately, I've played the game, and know better...

Can I set up this scenario? I definitely could. I could lay out all kinds of "traps" for NPCs. I saw a vid of the goblin fight at the grove where someone did just that. "but barrelmancy", except yeah, I did a fortress defense in NWN 2 that used a similar approach. Hey, I was watching a movie the other night, can't recall which one now, where they dug trenches and filled them with oil, and then lit them on fire when the enemy got in them. Damn that barrelmancy, spilling into other media, even though that media was out before barrelmancy was invented? What about castle defenses in RL, where they dumped burning oil on people trying to break down the gate? That's a tactic that's a few hundred years older than cRPGS...

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Sure, keep the dipping but make it require the substance that actually burns!

A metal sword bursting into flame by just touching fire is absurd.

Arrows should be dipped one at a time.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Just remove dipping.
This is so unrealistic, even in the FR^^

At least your suggestion is better than what we actually have... But I'd rather find an awesome +1d4 fire damage sword, a +1D4 poison dagger or a +1d4 elec bow than being able to dip everything in every encounters...

I really hate that they'll balance the game arround such concept.

Irony, right? Dipping is unrealistic, even in FR, but give me a sword that does fire damage?

I can see lighting arrows on fire, they are, after all, wood. Even for the "I want realism, but only the realism I like" crowd, wood burns, and you can light it on fire with a match. Bonus points if you realized that some matches are even made out of wood. Melee weapons, on the other hand, I've never actually done it, because I don't see how it would actually work, depending on the weapon, anyway. If I had a quarterstaff, for example, maybe? This is yet another of those "non-issue issues", because anyone that truly believes it breaks the game can simply refrain from doing it. If I were to go off of just reading the forum, I would be left believing that every square inch of ground except a walking path was covered with barrels just waiting to be picked up or set on fire. Fortunately, I've played the game, and know better...

Can I set up this scenario? I definitely could. I could lay out all kinds of "traps" for NPCs. I saw a vid of the goblin fight at the grove where someone did just that. "but barrelmancy", except yeah, I did a fortress defense in NWN 2 that used a similar approach. Hey, I was watching a movie the other night, can't recall which one now, where they dug trenches and filled them with oil, and then lit them on fire when the enemy got in them. Damn that barrelmancy, spilling into other media, even though that media was out before barrelmancy was invented? What about castle defenses in RL, where they dumped burning oil on people trying to break down the gate? That's a tactic that's a few hundred years older than cRPGS...



Magic allow sword to burn and create fire damage.
Every sword is not magic, nor is fire. A common sword dipped in common fire doesn't create a magical fire sword.
Same about arrows even in the FR. That's only a BG3/Larian gamey concept and nothing more (you can like it or not, no problem).

Light fire with a match only using wood ? Seriously ? Don"t know how you do that if you don't add oil or things like that^^
Try to light a fire on your quarterstaff or on the wood part of your arrow with a match and maybe it's going to become a little bit black, but it's definitely not going to become a +1D6 fire damage weapon that easy.

Anyway if you don't like the word "realism", just consider that I was talking about respecting the way things work in the world (real world but also in the FR, or on Middle Earth or on nearly every classic fantasy universe).

Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/10/20 03:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
[quote=robertthebard][quote=Maximuuus]

...

Magic allow sword to burn and create fire damage.
Every sword is not magic, nor is fire. A common sword dipped in common fire doesn't create a magical fire sword.
Same about arrows even in the FR. That's only a BG3/Larian gamey concept and nothing more (you can like it or not, no problem).

...

Anyway if you don't like the word "realism", just consider that I was talking about respecting the way things work in the world (real world but also in the FR, or on Middle Earth or on nearly every classic fantasy universe).


Good argument.

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If we MUST have dipping, then I would much rather see it implemented in this fashion over what we currently have.

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Yeah, I really like this idea OP. Helps balance out a new mechanic and adds variety to loot

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Although I am a fan of surfaces, I don't like dipping mostly because it slows down combat for me.


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