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Originally Posted by vel
Given the underwhelming latest patch (is Larian listening to any of the gameplay feedback?!?!)


When a contractor tells you; "Hey, the foundations are almost done, come take a look at how the new house is coming along", it's more than fair to think about what color you want the kitchen to be in. It is unfair, then, to tell them off because it's not in your preferred color yet.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Just to make sure, you're also aware of Owlcat's Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, right? It's not out now (currently in alpha available only to kickstarter backers I think...), but it should be out in a year's time or so (idk).

From what I've seen others post, it's pretty good so far.

Yes P:WotR should be hugely improved in many areas over P:Km.

In addition to the two Pathfinder games and Solasta, there is also Realms Beyond which, like Solasta, is using the D&D SRD but 3.5e instead of 5e.

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Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by vel
Given the underwhelming latest patch (is Larian listening to any of the gameplay feedback?!?!)


When a contractor tells you; "Hey, the foundations are almost done, come take a look at how the new house is coming along", it's more than fair to think about what color you want the kitchen to be in. It is unfair, then, to tell them off because it's not in your preferred color yet.



You don't pay a contractor full price for a new house before it's done in order to offset risk in case the contractor doesn't deliver. BG3 EA came with all the usual beta disclaimers, that's not what the griping is about, and as I've noted elsewhere I got my money's worth already. It's a testament to us wanting this to go from good to great that any of us are still engaging in these forums.

Clever analogies aside, I'm glad Larian is fixing crashes and communicating via newsletters, rather than complete silence.

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kanisatha thanks for the Realms Beyond pointer.

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Solasta has terrible graphics and is very linear but does 5e right and the fights are more fun. What BG3 could learn from it.
1. Auto-party Jump
2. Dodge, Ready, Reactions and Disengage
3. Self-Built party that still has roleplaying and interaction
4. World map, random encounters, limited camps
5.Rolling For stats. Though I know it throws off balance horribly as people will roll 2000 times for their ideal as many 18s as possible.
6. Unique feats and Subclasses for the setting. Green mage was very fun to play.
7. NO GROUND EFFECTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Sloane Hardtower
Solasta has terrible graphics and is very linear but does 5e right and the fights are more fun. What BG3 could learn from it.
1. Auto-party Jump
2. Dodge, Ready, Reactions and Disengage
3. Self-Built party that still has roleplaying and interaction
4. World map, random encounters, limited camps
5.Rolling For stats. Though I know it throws off balance horribly as people will roll 2000 times for their ideal as many 18s as possible.
6. Unique feats and Subclasses for the setting. Green mage was very fun to play.
7. NO GROUND EFFECTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!


I’d love to see most other of these.
World map I can do without. If the game is designed where it doesn’t need backtracking then I don’t need that.
Rolling is coming.
The game is in the Forgotten Realms. Larian doesn’t need unique feats and subclasses. All of PHB is enough.
I’ve gotten used to the ground effects. I don’t think they are as bad as I did when I started.

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Solasta graphics are bad, especially the models. DOS2 at least had vibrant terrain even if the graphics were shabby. Let's be honest though, we don't expect amazing graphics from our RPGs and we're lucky when something as pretty as FF15 or Witcher 3 lands. The dialog graphics in BG3 are decent.

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This is why early access should also come with an age limit.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Just to make sure, you're also aware of Owlcat's Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, right? It's not out now (currently in alpha available only to kickstarter backers I think...), but it should be out in a year's time or so (idk).

From what I've seen others post, it's pretty good so far.


I am definitely looking forward to this one. BG3 is the first game I have ever bought on EA, and I have never done a kickstarter. With the experience of BG3 so far, I think I will avoid EAs and kickstarters in future, so I will have to wait a year or more to play PF:WotR.

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Originally Posted by vel
Solasta graphics are bad, especially the models. DOS2 at least had vibrant terrain even if the graphics were shabby. Let's be honest though, we don't expect amazing graphics from our RPGs and we're lucky when something as pretty as FF15 or Witcher 3 lands. The dialog graphics in BG3 are decent.

Sure. But we've got to be realistic about what a small indie studio can possibly do. Games like Solasta and Realms Beyond (and other recent non-D&D old-school cRPGs like Black Geyser and Alaloth) are being made by really tiny studios. Even Owlcat was extremely small (under 20 people) when they first made P:Km, and only started expanding after receiving good sales of the game upon its release such that they are now somewhat bigger. Tactical Adventures, as I understand it, is making Solasta with 17 people. By contrast, there are over 400 people working on BG3.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Even Owlcat was extremely small (under 20 people) when they first made P:Km


Didn't know that, though they have seemed to have outsourced a lot. https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/pathfinder-kingmaker/credits As long as teams this small can make decent games, I am not worried about the future of this type of games. At a certain size, It's all about chasing that blockbuster game, and there's few/er I personally consider as inspiring as smaller scale, more focused projects catering to more specific niches as opposed to everybody. A blockbuster done right can be really good, mind, but there's usually always heavy compromise somewhere.

Last edited by Sven_; 28/10/20 07:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by vel
Solasta graphics are bad, especially the models. DOS2 at least had vibrant terrain even if the graphics were shabby. Let's be honest though, we don't expect amazing graphics from our RPGs and we're lucky when something as pretty as FF15 or Witcher 3 lands. The dialog graphics in BG3 are decent.

Sure. But we've got to be realistic about what a small indie studio can possibly do. Games like Solasta and Realms Beyond (and other recent non-D&D old-school cRPGs like Black Geyser and Alaloth) are being made by really tiny studios. Even Owlcat was extremely small (under 20 people) when they first made P:Km, and only started expanding after receiving good sales of the game upon its release such that they are now somewhat bigger. Tactical Adventures, as I understand it, is making Solasta with 17 people. By contrast, there are over 400 people working on BG3.


And still all those games are creating better BG successors than Larian. The only thing the 380 additional people seem to do are graphics.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Sure. But we've got to be realistic about what a small indie studio can possibly do. Games like Solasta and Realms Beyond (and other recent non-D&D old-school cRPGs like Black Geyser and Alaloth) are being made by really tiny studios. Even Owlcat was extremely small (under 20 people) when they first made P:Km, and only started expanding after receiving good sales of the game upon its release such that they are now somewhat bigger. Tactical Adventures, as I understand it, is making Solasta with 17 people. By contrast, there are over 400 people working on BG3.


Black Geyser is a glimmer of hope that RTwP won't die out... Now that Obsidian packed their stuff and left to play in another sandbox, Owlcat is, I think, the only studio left (other than Black Geyser devs) that is making primarily RTwP cRPGs. (Not sure what system is Alaloth? Seems aRPG-like.) I have some hope for Archetype Entertainment, but for now we have no idea what they're doing, could be a Bethesda-style game for all we know.

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A Baldurs gate game without day/night cycles is really disappointing. At least have some maps be at dusk...or nightime.
BG3 basically has no <TIME> to speak of. Its always noon or camp time.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 28/10/20 10:59 AM.
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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Sure. But we've got to be realistic about what a small indie studio can possibly do. Games like Solasta and Realms Beyond (and other recent non-D&D old-school cRPGs like Black Geyser and Alaloth) are being made by really tiny studios. Even Owlcat was extremely small (under 20 people) when they first made P:Km, and only started expanding after receiving good sales of the game upon its release such that they are now somewhat bigger. Tactical Adventures, as I understand it, is making Solasta with 17 people. By contrast, there are over 400 people working on BG3.


Black Geyser is a glimmer of hope that RTwP won't die out... Now that Obsidian packed their stuff and left to play in another sandbox, Owlcat is, I think, the only studio left (other than Black Geyser devs) that is making primarily RTwP cRPGs. (Not sure what system is Alaloth? Seems aRPG-like.) I have some hope for Archetype Entertainment, but for now we have no idea what they're doing, could be a Bethesda-style game for all we know.

Don't write off Obsidian just yet. They have said (a) RTwP still has a place in cRPGs and that they have not walked away from RTwP; and (b) several of their devs including senior devs remain interested in the PoE franchise and making another game, but they are just burned out from PoE for now and need to go do other things for a bit before returning to a possible future PoE game.

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Originally Posted by Warlocke
I’d love to see most other of these.
World map I can do without. If the game is designed where it doesn’t need backtracking then I don’t need that.
Rolling is coming.
The game is in the Forgotten Realms. Larian doesn’t need unique feats and subclasses. All of PHB is enough.
I’ve gotten used to the ground effects. I don’t think they are as bad as I did when I started.


I tried playing with the mod disabling the constant damage made from ground effects (poison, acid, fire). It's like a different game and it feels way better. The entire barrelmancy incentive goes out the window for me (almost).

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Just to make sure, you're also aware of Owlcat's Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, right? It's not out now (currently in alpha available only to kickstarter backers I think...), but it should be out in a year's time or so (idk).

From what I've seen others post, it's pretty good so far.


I'm in the alpha test for WotR and yes it is going to be very good. Also loving Solasta which is also still in development but very good already. Anyone who has not played Kingmaker, stop what you are doing right now and go get it, you will not be sorry. BG3 looks the best visually with the big budget motion capture and I'm sure the story will be fun and worth playing but I don't see it having the replay appeal of Kingmaker. Also have to mention that Kingmaker has a DLC that is pure dungeon crawl and it is so much fun because you create a full custom party for each run and there are so many great classes to choose from, you are always thinking about what party you want to build for your next run.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Sure. But we've got to be realistic about what a small indie studio can possibly do. Games like Solasta and Realms Beyond (and other recent non-D&D old-school cRPGs like Black Geyser and Alaloth) are being made by really tiny studios. Even Owlcat was extremely small (under 20 people) when they first made P:Km, and only started expanding after receiving good sales of the game upon its release such that they are now somewhat bigger. Tactical Adventures, as I understand it, is making Solasta with 17 people. By contrast, there are over 400 people working on BG3.


Black Geyser is a glimmer of hope that RTwP won't die out... Now that Obsidian packed their stuff and left to play in another sandbox, Owlcat is, I think, the only studio left (other than Black Geyser devs) that is making primarily RTwP cRPGs. (Not sure what system is Alaloth? Seems aRPG-like.) I have some hope for Archetype Entertainment, but for now we have no idea what they're doing, could be a Bethesda-style game for all we know.

Don't write off Obsidian just yet. They have said (a) RTwP still has a place in cRPGs and that they have not walked away from RTwP; and (b) several of their devs including senior devs remain interested in the PoE franchise and making another game, but they are just burned out from PoE for now and need to go do other things for a bit before returning to a possible future PoE game.

Actually Avowed is technically a PoE spinoff.
I'm very happy either way, with Obsidian working in first person RPGs or CRPGs, only recently noticed the shortage of the former, pretty much only Bethesda makes these types of games, so another player in the matket is great.

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GamerSerg thanks for the WotR enthusiasm and the PK DLC dungeon crawl tip! I didn't know about that.

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Originally Posted by Sloane Hardtower
Solasta has terrible graphics and is very linear but does 5e right and the fights are more fun. What BG3 could learn from it.
1. Auto-party Jump
2. Dodge, Ready, Reactions and Disengage
3. Self-Built party that still has roleplaying and interaction
4. World map, random encounters, limited camps
5.Rolling For stats. Though I know it throws off balance horribly as people will roll 2000 times for their ideal as many 18s as possible.
6. Unique feats and Subclasses for the setting. Green mage was very fun to play.
7. NO GROUND EFFECTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!


1. No, different strength equals different jump heights and distances which is used to lock off secret areas and means an 8 str character can’t just leap to the top a mountain for high ground advantage.
2. More complexity for an already complex game that would add what exactly other than being more like DND? Their goal isn’t a die hard dnd replica, its a fun and enjoyable game that millions will love, not just dnd players.
3. They have already said mercenaries will be available
4. There is a world map already in the game you can see....random encounters if they happen at all(bg2 did not have them) then they will surely appear when traveling over the world map to different areas. This is normal difficulty, limited rest may be added or will be saved for harder difficulties.
5. No, people would just install auto rollers and cheese through the game. Just mod your save file or download a hack if normal limits make it too hard for you.
6. The more they add or change from standard dnd the more complaints they seem to receive....can’t have your cake and eat it to.
7. Without a detailed Matt Mercer style map, how would your average DM really show ground effects? This isn’t a ‘not in my dnd’ issue, it’s just something 90% of people do not have the resources to include in their games. It’s a great idea, adds tons to combat and terrain in general, and would be way more prevalent in tabletop except for the complexity of using it.

Last edited by macadami; 28/10/20 02:15 PM.
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