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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Out of curiosity I just Googled “Avowed third person.” Apparently Obsidian recently posted a job listing for an animator for third person combat animations. The listing didn’t mention Avowed, but that is a good sign.

I hope Avowed does well. I think Pillars of Eternity is a great IP, and even if I had problems with the sequel, I think that it did enough right to warrant another chance. Obsidian had a lot of talent, so with the right resources they could make PoE3 something really special.

The "problems" with the sequel was lack of marketing.
Deadfire is a fantastic game and a visual marvel. It has the best looks and best class system of all CRPGs.


My problems with the sequel had nothing to do with the marketing. 😂

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Out of curiosity I just Googled “Avowed third person.” Apparently Obsidian recently posted a job listing for an animator for third person combat animations. The listing didn’t mention Avowed, but that is a good sign.

I hope Avowed does well. I think Pillars of Eternity is a great IP, and even if I had problems with the sequel, I think that it did enough right to warrant another chance. Obsidian had a lot of talent, so with the right resources they could make PoE3 something really special.

The "problems" with the sequel was lack of marketing.
Deadfire is a fantastic game and a visual marvel. It has the best looks and best class system of all CRPGs.

Yup. I LOVE the class system with multi-classing. And also yes, the game looks visually stunning. Even won some awards for its visuals. But going with Fig and having horrible marketing and promotion was indeed the problem. No surprise their marketing and promotion head got the axe soon after.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Out of curiosity I just Googled “Avowed third person.” Apparently Obsidian recently posted a job listing for an animator for third person combat animations. The listing didn’t mention Avowed, but that is a good sign.

I hope Avowed does well. I think Pillars of Eternity is a great IP, and even if I had problems with the sequel, I think that it did enough right to warrant another chance. Obsidian had a lot of talent, so with the right resources they could make PoE3 something really special.

The "problems" with the sequel was lack of marketing.
Deadfire is a fantastic game and a visual marvel. It has the best looks and best class system of all CRPGs.


It was a below average game, and a bad rpg. That's why it sold so badly.

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Originally Posted by Stahlhengst
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Out of curiosity I just Googled “Avowed third person.” Apparently Obsidian recently posted a job listing for an animator for third person combat animations. The listing didn’t mention Avowed, but that is a good sign.

I hope Avowed does well. I think Pillars of Eternity is a great IP, and even if I had problems with the sequel, I think that it did enough right to warrant another chance. Obsidian had a lot of talent, so with the right resources they could make PoE3 something really special.

The "problems" with the sequel was lack of marketing.
Deadfire is a fantastic game and a visual marvel. It has the best looks and best class system of all CRPGs.


It was a below average game, and a bad rpg. That's why it sold so badly.

Would you please elaborate?
I don't see how a game with that scope, polish, voice acting, advanced mechanics can be below average. I hate Josh Sawyer's obsession with balance, but the multiclass system is a triumph, it is so good it is hard complete a playthrough because you want to try other 20 builds.

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Deadfire was fkn badass. loved it. The story was very strange, but in a good way. I think what hurt the story the most was Obsidian's pattern of creating opposing fictions. in this specific game I don't think it was the right choice. but enough about that. Pirates! finally! a great RPG with a pirate theme. I've always wanted one. Now if someone please find out how to add pirates of the Caribbean music to the game I will be complete.

And I kinda hated POE1

Last edited by Abits; 30/10/20 10:59 PM.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Stahlhengst
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Out of curiosity I just Googled “Avowed third person.” Apparently Obsidian recently posted a job listing for an animator for third person combat animations. The listing didn’t mention Avowed, but that is a good sign.

I hope Avowed does well. I think Pillars of Eternity is a great IP, and even if I had problems with the sequel, I think that it did enough right to warrant another chance. Obsidian had a lot of talent, so with the right resources they could make PoE3 something really special.

The "problems" with the sequel was lack of marketing.
Deadfire is a fantastic game and a visual marvel. It has the best looks and best class system of all CRPGs.


It was a below average game, and a bad rpg. That's why it sold so badly.

Would you please elaborate?
I don't see how a game with that scope, polish, voice acting, advanced mechanics can be below average. I hate Josh Sawyer's obsession with balance, but the multiclass system is a triumph, it is so good it is hard complete a playthrough because you want to try other 20 builds.

Clearly they're trolling. Best to ignore.

And yes, Deadfire is a fantastic game in every way. People who've actually played the game overwhelmingly give it very high marks. But sometimes, even a really good game just doesn't sell. A generation ago Ps:T had very poor sales too, and yet it is considered a classic.

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In 2003, Temple of Elemental Evil came out. In the same year, Hordes of the Underdark (for Neverwinter Nights) also came out. The first game was extremely faithful to the then-current 3.5 ruleset, but was bland and unmemorable. The second game took much greater liberties with the D&D rules, but had much better story, characters, creative and epic adventure designs and locations, music, and other game elements.

Everyone who is in the know about D&D games and the CRPG subgenre says that Temple of Elemental Evil is the most accurate D&D adaptation in a video game. The implementation of MECHANICS is highly praised. But no one ever says that they loved it, or that it's one of their favorite D&D games. Conversely, people still talk about Hordes of the Underdark all the time, and many people remember it well and love it. It's considered the best part of Neverwinter Nights by a wide margin.

I think history repeats itself. Solasta is Temple of Elemental Evil again. Baldur's Gate 3 is Hordes of the Underdark.

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i didn't like hordes of the underdark very much. (I thought nwn 1 was okay, shadows of undrentide was pretty good)

I quite liked temple of elemental evil.

Go figure!

Temple of Elemental evil actually got better with the mods that were made for it adding things like PRCs etc.

It's story wasn't super great, because it was based on a classic D&D module for new players, its controls were actually pretty clunky and not very intuitive - which was, along with it initially being a buggy mess, the reason it isn't remembered fondly.

Solasta by comparison, has very intuitive controls, even the camera felt fine after getting used to it being essentially the opposite of BG3. It's much closer to the rules, which is good. As for it's story, so far its very linear, we don't know what the long haul of it will be, but I wouldn't say it was bland, just that it has humble beginnings. BG3 could well end up being a big deal, i really hope it is honestly, but i find it irksome and not very fun to play right now. I feel like i fight against its clunky rules and weird controls all the time so stopped playing. Will come back to it once its next major patch that actually makes changes to gameplay comes.

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Really? Wow. I've never seen anyone say they didn't like Hordes of the Underdark.

Temple of Elemental Evil kind of wastes excellent mechanics, in my opinion, on a pretty boring D&D module. There are so many better adventures they could have chosen to adapt.

I actually think Solasta will turn out to be MUCH better than Temple of Elemental Evil, but ultimately it's going to be outshined by Baldur's Gate 3.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
I actually think Solasta will turn out to be MUCH better than Temple of Elemental Evil, but ultimately it's going to be outshined by Baldur's Gate 3.

Well of course it will be outshined. How could it not, given the gigantic differences in budget and developer personnel? It is a rather unfair comparison unless compared in a weighted way.

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Pathfinder had even less marketing than poe2 and sold more, and it was from an unknown developer in their first game. I have my doubts about marketing being the main problem. Personally, I liked both but prefer pathfinder's combat and companions (not all were good though). Evil playthrough is way more interesting too.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastel
Pathfinder had even less marketing than poe2 and sold more, and it was from an unknown developer in their first game. I have my doubts about marketing being the main problem. Personally, I liked both but prefer pathfinder's combat and companions (not all were good though). Evil playthrough is way more interesting too.

Deadfire is very divisive among fans from what little I can tell. and in a niche genre like this, perhaps divisive is not good enough. I also think that when POE came out It was really the start of the "crpg Renesans" and there were very few games of its kind, but POE2 had more competition


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Bernkastel
Pathfinder had even less marketing than poe2 and sold more, and it was from an unknown developer in their first game. I have my doubts about marketing being the main problem. Personally, I liked both but prefer pathfinder's combat and companions (not all were good though). Evil playthrough is way more interesting too.

Pathfinder didn't need marketing. It's Pathfinder, a well-known quantity at least for all the millions of people who play Pf TT. Same thing for ANY D&D game. Such games already start out with a pretty large core base of fans who will automatically like and buy the game, and you REALLY need to screw things up to sell poorly (i.e. SCL).

Last edited by kanisatha; 31/10/20 09:27 PM.
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Pathfinder Kingmaker is a real home run by Owlcat, in my opinion. It's not perfect, but given the actual size and experience level of the developers, it's really ambitious and impressive. I think their next game will be spectacular.

As for Pillars 2, I think it's a very well made game that improves upon its predecessor considerably, yet I've struggled to finish a playthrough of it. The whole ships/pirates/Pacific islands/age of sail theme doesn't interest me at all, unfortunately. It's definitely a great RPG, but it never seems to hold my interest long enough to complete it.

The game that I REALLY liked in this new renaissance of isometric CRPGs was Tyranny. Original setting, memorable companions, intriguing story, cool magic system. It did a lot of really neat stuff. I'm sad that it probably will never get a sequel.

But Baldur's Gate 3 is absolutely blowing me away so far. Yes, there are some ridiculous Larianisms throughout it, and some questionable house rules. But despite those things, I feel like it's hugely better than any of Larian's prior games, and a true, new flagship D&D title like we haven't had since, well, the Infinity Engine era.

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as others said, of course BG3 will outshine Solasta commercially, their budgets and marketing are hugely different, not to mention size and experience of the teams. That said, as others have noted, pathfinder kingmaker was from an unknown and was a pretty big success.

Solasta doesn't feel clunky or awkward at any point IMO, its story has started off simple but there are implications it is anything but in the later acts.

Really the only negatives I have about Solasta are:
- visuals are pretty poor for character models (environments are nice but need more clutter
- dialogue could use a bit more diversity and options
- needs more side content (which they have stated will be coming, right now its basically just the start of main quest and essentially no side content included apparently, where as, from what we know BG3 has given us the majority of act 1)
- balance of some of the new options is a bit wonky.

I genuinely have found Solasta to be engaging enough to have me really hyped for the full version, where BG3 generally feels frustrating to play for me because their house rules are awful (mostly, not all, i do like the inclusion of a special ability per weapon as it will make warrior gameplay more interesting), and a bunch of the way the game controls feels clunky (i cannot state how much i hate the click it, then click it again approach to using abilities like dash) and the games menus feel clunky too, plus party control is horrible and I found nothing particularly likeable about the companions, which is a HUGE swing and miss in a BG game because yes, ultimately the plot will be the main draw, if I don't like the companions, it'll kill it for me.

p.s. Yeah I think I was probably NWN'd out by the time i played it as I used to play on a persistant world called ALFA a LOT back in the day (and did when they returned for NWN2 as well(

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Pathfinder Kingmaker is a real home run by Owlcat, in my opinion. It's not perfect, but given the actual size and experience level of the developers, it's really ambitious and impressive. I think their next game will be spectacular.

As for Pillars 2, I think it's a very well made game that improves upon its predecessor considerably, yet I've struggled to finish a playthrough of it. The whole ships/pirates/Pacific islands/age of sail theme doesn't interest me at all, unfortunately. It's definitely a great RPG, but it never seems to hold my interest long enough to complete it.

The game that I REALLY liked in this new renaissance of isometric CRPGs was Tyranny. Original setting, memorable companions, intriguing story, cool magic system. It did a lot of really neat stuff. I'm sad that it probably will never get a sequel.

But Baldur's Gate 3 is absolutely blowing me away so far. Yes, there are some ridiculous Larianisms throughout it, and some questionable house rules. But despite those things, I feel like it's hugely better than any of Larian's prior games, and a true, new flagship D&D title like we haven't had since, well, the Infinity Engine era.


I found Tyranny too short and had walls of text like Pillars, too dense. BG3 already has avoided that trap for the most part (explanatory books excepted). Pathfinder Kingmaker could have used a better editor, there was a lot of dialog vomit. The story's good though.

I hope BG3 and Stadia can get to those levels of story that we're referring to.

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I love those walls of text. My favorite games are Planescape: Torment and Disco Elysium. A game literally cannot have too much text for me.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
I love those walls of text. My favorite games are Planescape: Torment and Disco Elysium. A game literally cannot have too much text for me.


I have to agree. I remember recruiting a new companion in P:T and then spending an hour or so just going through the lengthy conversations. And they were great!

That said, I don't expect a Baldur's Gate game to have the amount of text (or, let's be honest, writing quality) of P:T. Still, there is middle ground between P:T and modern-Bioware-like... approaches.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Pathfinder Kingmaker is a real home run by Owlcat, in my opinion. It's not perfect, but given the actual size and experience level of the developers, it's really ambitious and impressive. I think their next game will be spectacular.

As for Pillars 2, I think it's a very well made game that improves upon its predecessor considerably, yet I've struggled to finish a playthrough of it. The whole ships/pirates/Pacific islands/age of sail theme doesn't interest me at all, unfortunately. It's definitely a great RPG, but it never seems to hold my interest long enough to complete it.

The game that I REALLY liked in this new renaissance of isometric CRPGs was Tyranny. Original setting, memorable companions, intriguing story, cool magic system. It did a lot of really neat stuff. I'm sad that it probably will never get a sequel.

But Baldur's Gate 3 is absolutely blowing me away so far. Yes, there are some ridiculous Larianisms throughout it, and some questionable house rules. But despite those things, I feel like it's hugely better than any of Larian's prior games, and a true, new flagship D&D title like we haven't had since, well, the Infinity Engine era.


Something that I really like about Pathfinder Kingmaker is the environmental descriptions.
I think that's something you kinda miss out on with voice acted games ( the game has a little voice acted content tho ).
I like when the game describes in more detail what my character is seeing, facial expressions etc.
I find it to be very immersive.

Ofc you can do that visually with cutscenes too, but in Baldur's Gate 3 the cutscenes aren't detailed enough to convey that.

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Originally Posted by Svalr
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Pathfinder Kingmaker is a real home run by Owlcat, in my opinion. It's not perfect, but given the actual size and experience level of the developers, it's really ambitious and impressive. I think their next game will be spectacular.

As for Pillars 2, I think it's a very well made game that improves upon its predecessor considerably, yet I've struggled to finish a playthrough of it. The whole ships/pirates/Pacific islands/age of sail theme doesn't interest me at all, unfortunately. It's definitely a great RPG, but it never seems to hold my interest long enough to complete it.

The game that I REALLY liked in this new renaissance of isometric CRPGs was Tyranny. Original setting, memorable companions, intriguing story, cool magic system. It did a lot of really neat stuff. I'm sad that it probably will never get a sequel.

But Baldur's Gate 3 is absolutely blowing me away so far. Yes, there are some ridiculous Larianisms throughout it, and some questionable house rules. But despite those things, I feel like it's hugely better than any of Larian's prior games, and a true, new flagship D&D title like we haven't had since, well, the Infinity Engine era.


Something that I really like about Pathfinder Kingmaker is the environmental descriptions.
I think that's something you kinda miss out on with voice acted games ( the game has a little voice acted content tho ).
I like when the game describes in more detail what my character is seeing, facial expressions etc.
I find it to be very immersive.

Ofc you can do that visually with cutscenes too, but in Baldur's Gate 3 the cutscenes aren't detailed enough to convey that.

I absolutely loathe the environmental descriptions... I hated them in Poe and always skipped them. It depends on what are they used for, but I think obsidian tends to overuse them. But I suppose it's a minority opinion


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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