Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Oct 2020
T
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
Originally Posted by trengilly
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
Nettie is a great example of doing things really wrong: If you want the peaceful/good solution you will have to pass 2-3 checks, or kill her. These are obvious, but the good way is incredibly hard. What you might not know is that you can also use a cauldron to brew your own antidote and you can steal it from her. You might also be able to just go and get healing elsewhere.


No, the Nettie situation is an example of how we as players need to think more about our actions! Its blindingly obvious that Nettie the apprentice druid is NOT going to be able to remove our tadpoles. So why does everyone ask her to do it? Because we are conditioned to believe that we should 'do everything' in games and that we will always be successful. BG3 is NOT like that!

There is no need to ask Nettie to help us. and there are multiple options to back out before things get serious.

And there is Zero need to kill her . . . even if you fail all the rolls. There is a Knockout option in combat (why does no one ever remember this?)

Nettie ending up dead is the result of the player making multiple poor choices, not dice rolls.

Unless of course you want to kill Nettie . . which is a valid choice. The druids are in theory neutral but are acting very hostile toward outsiders. They don't exactly earn any goodwill.


Nettie will get hostile after failing the checks. If you are good you will not want to kill her, because she has a point. Talking to her also makes sense, she is the apprentice, she has additional information and might be able to help since she also studied the tadpole. There might have been recent conclusions she came to. It is logical to talk to her, if you had a disease and there was only a nurse nearby, who knows where the doctor is, you'd ask her for info as well.
Now yeah you could not knock her out, but I never got knocking out to work, the victims just died. It might only work from stealth and out of combat, I do not know, and there is noone telling you how it works. Stealing would be the optimal option, but not everyone's cup of tea.
You could use the cauldron, but there is an additional issue: When you press alt it is not highlighted, so you might totally miss it. You might as well miss the book that gives you the recipe for the antidote. Also there are roleplay reasons why you just do not rummage around in people's documents when the person is around. The game simply does not give you enough hints to make educated choices, that is why many players will just endlessly reload until they get the option they wanted, however improbable that is. That is an UI problem and a game design problem. The game funnels you into one option, partly because they created the encounter this way, partly because the game is lacking an actual relevant tutorial and partly because the UI is pisspoor and partly because their dialogue writing and conversation system is at times suboptimal.



The knock out function actually works most of the time, not sure what everyone else is doing.

Problem with knocking out Nettie though... is that it does nothing to prevent her from being hostile, even when you brought Halsin back.

Joined: Oct 2020
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by TheOtter
Problem with knocking out Nettie though... is that it does nothing to prevent her from being hostile, even when you brought Halsin back.


Well that then is effectively a bug. She absolutely should no longer remain hostile after Halsin returns.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
I can absolutely not save scum because I buy games like these with the intent of putting hundreds, if not more, hours into them. I don't have the idea that I have to see everything in the first go around, and like it a lot when there are not only multiple ways to play a scenario out, but also multiple ways for the individual paths to play out. It gives me a reason to replay it. It doesn't matter if it's a half hour into the game, or 10 minutes from the final boss fight, I'll take what I get, and roll out with it.

Joined: Oct 2020
V
member
Offline
member
V
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by trengilly
Originally Posted by VincentNZ

Nettie will get hostile after failing the checks. If you are good you will not want to kill her, because she has a point. Talking to her also makes sense, she is the apprentice, she has additional information and might be able to help since she also studied the tadpole. There might have been recent conclusions she came to. It is logical to talk to her, if you had a disease and there was only a nurse nearby, who knows where the doctor is, you'd ask her for info as well.
Now yeah you could not knock her out, but I never got knocking out to work, the victims just died. It might only work from stealth and out of combat, I do not know, and there is noone telling you how it works. Stealing would be the optimal option, but not everyone's cup of tea.
You could use the cauldron, but there is an additional issue: When you press alt it is not highlighted, so you might totally miss it. You might as well miss the book that gives you the recipe for the antidote. Also there are roleplay reasons why you just do not rummage around in people's documents when the person is around. The game simply does not give you enough hints to make educated choices, that is why many players will just endlessly reload until they get the option they wanted, however improbable that is. That is an UI problem and a game design problem. The game funnels you into one option, partly because they created the encounter this way, partly because the game is lacking an actual relevant tutorial and partly because the UI is pisspoor and partly because their dialogue writing and conversation system is at times suboptimal.

I agree that Larian didn't write this one out well. There should be a better opportunity to back out without triggering a fight. You should be able to refuse the 'treatment' and leave without a fight (or with only one fairly easy check). But once you get 'treated' I'm fine with how things play out.


Yeah, totally agreed. The whole situation could be a staple for good writing and for allowing a wide range of options that go beyond good and evil. You can persuade her, kill her, knock her out, brew your own antidote, steal it, and maybe just walk away. That is great. But the game does not tell you your options and the consequences are not clear. Knocking out is buggy, the cauldron does not light up, the persuasion checks are statistically very difficult, pickpocketing is not explained and companions do not involve themselves in a helpful way to highlight other options.

Joined: Oct 2020
F
stranger
Offline
stranger
F
Joined: Oct 2020
They should use the passive skill checks, like the take 10 or take 20 rules from, what was it, 3rd edition. 10 is used for passive checks, take 20 assumes the character isn't pressed for time and this isn't a one time task. It's something that they could sit there and work on until they get it, like picking a lock. 10 or 20 plus your modifiers , then set their DCs where they want them for it to make sense. If failure isn't interesting, don't roll dice. This would work really well for almost all conversation options with companions, but wouldn't make sense for every check with NPCs. I would say there are some "checks" with NPCs that could probably become "choices" if the player has the appropriate skill. I think to take 10 in something, (or take 20 the player would need to be proficient with that particular skill.

On top of this, I feel if your whole party is present for a conversation, then all of their skills and abilities should come into play for that conversation. They should all be part of the conversation, all options anyone in your party would have should be presented and the skill checks should be done by the person with the best chance and the dialogue should be expressed by whoever has that highest chance for that option. That would really kick the dialogue experience up a notch.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Cheat engine


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
H
stranger
Offline
stranger
H
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by trengilly
And there is Zero need to kill her


My character promised to slaughter entire groove if she don't give the antidote. She thought that drow priestess of Lolz woudn't dare to do that. That is totally on her.

Joined: Jan 2010
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jan 2010
its simple, you fail a roll you accept it and keep playing

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by luciant
its simple, you fail a roll you accept it and keep playing

Might be fine for first playthrough


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Dogmatis
My suggestion would be to eliminate dice rolls for things that should pose absolutely no challenge to your character. An experienced thief wouldn't fail at unlocking a simple lock,.


That's taking a 10 + bonuses when not under stress. There aren't that many situation not under stress in the EA. Also, level 1 to 4 aren't what I would call experienced.


Failures aren't the result of "I don't have the strength to do that" unless you can never succeed (i.e. DC is higher than 20 + your bonuses). A very strong person can fail to lift a wood plank if they have a cramp for example. 5 minutes later they might be able to do it.


Take 10 isnt a rule anymore. You simply dont roll in most cases not under stress.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
FYI, you can make the antidote yourself with herbs and the cauldron in Nettie's lab. No check needed.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5