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I feel they just want to make D:OS3 and not a true D&D experience with BG3. BG1&2 where great examples of translating the table top to your PC. Sure there were a few things changed here and there, but for the most part it was only to accommodate rules that wouldn't make sense in a video game. I think most people see my main gripe being the Import/Export of characters, which I can be quite hostile about. I loved that feature in the originals and hated the "companion" rule in D:OS2. This is just my frustration, there are a ton more when reading down the forums.

Bullet sponge goblins are a huge example of how they do not grasp a desire from fans for them to stop making the same mistakes. Multiple mods were made from D:OS2 for the bullet sponge model and made that game more enjoyable ( I have it on both PC and PS4 and pc mods make it so much better). I was frustrated about my Ranger missing most of the time at the start of BG3, buuuuut I was also missing mainly when in caves or dungeons and it took me a bit to realize I was shooting at disadvantage because my human doesnt have darkvision. The other issue here is the dice rolls. I have had some awful dice at tables, but never EVER have I had the consistent bad luck I have on rolls in this game. Need an 8 on a check that you have proficiency in and you had Shadowhart provide guidance so you get 1d4 more............and I roll a 4. Its whatever, these things need to be worked out, but I feel it should get a little better focus and I would like to see what im rolling against. At the table, I know about a few misses or hits what that goblins AC is.....oh he has 14 because he is wearing studded leather, ok now I know what to shoot for. Here, with +5 or more to hit, in normal light........miss, critical miss, miss, miss. Then there are the range nerfs, 60ft for a bow.......eldritch blast and Firebolt? Playing a sharpshooter Ranger, you should never be within range of anything. Spell Sniper is another, you should be a safe distance with your squishes or (because I use this on my EK) it helps your front line cover distance while still being a threat. I mean it makes for epic stories. My Ranger managed to finish off the last 30 hit points of a young white dragon that was trying to run away because of SS.

The other main thing I have read from people that were part of D:OS2 EA, is that Larian wont listen and collaborate with players. The game is how it is, and this is a way for them to make money before the game can be completely released. I feel its up to us to make noise, have Devs talk to us WEEKLY. I know there is a lot going on with the game, but its still a good year or more away. We can really push this away from the D:OS2 terrain damage gameplay and make this the game we want. By level 3, goblins are supposed to be 1 shot, they are goblins and have 8 hp. Give them 8hp and 14 AC and fix the issues with the rolls.

My last point is to ask the masochist community to calm down a little. The game will get harder as we level and you can always play a permadeath run, if things arent to your liking. It doesnt have to be the souls series. We are player the last best hope of our towns in the first 4 levels, then country in T2, and so on and so on. I promise by the time your fighting dragons at level 10/11, there will be plenty of worry to go around. Its fine if Colossus Slayer does your modifier damage for now, because Hunter's mark doesnt activate with it, so youre getting (at most) +4, which is the average of a 1d6 from HM. A SS Ranger at level 5 should be able to hit a single target with a longbow for 1d8+4+1d8CS+1d6HM+10 for SS. Thats max damage of 36. CS doesnt happen on the second hit so its 28. Thats 64 total for 2 hits (which isnt likely to happen every time with that -5) so can we PLEASE stop asking Larian to take things away? Please? Lets get the things fixed that need fixing. Lets get range working in this game. Lets make this BG3 not D:OS3. Can we put together a short list of things that are broken, vote on them and present them to Larian weekly? This will benefit all of us, as we can say "hey item #37 has been here for 6 months, whats the deal"? We are paying customers that are doing testing and quality control for this company. We should get MOST of what we want.


My final little grievance is the story. Didnt we already do the I need to get rid of a beast/disease/Demon/etc storyline in several other games? Cant we just be adventurers? In Storm Kings Thunder, you dont have this. In the Mad Mage, you dont have this, in almost every single 5E module there is no disabling brain monster that you need to be cured of. It creates a false sense of story urgency just to create story urgency. Thank all of you that have read this far, please lets work together to hold Larian accountable and make sure this is the game we want it to be.

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Which "we"? Because there are things you want that I don't. There are things that bother you that don't bother me, like the tadpole. There are things we may well agree on, but the one thing, right off the bat, that we don't agree on is that, if Larian wanted to make DOS 3, they could have done a Kickstarter, and been successful with it. They have more than enough good will around the net from their previous KS campaigns, and the end results. Then there's the time I spent in DOS 2 this morning, while I waited for the tech to come out and fix my internet. A whole lot of people that are misremembering, or just hitting on confirmation bias over a few similarities, and sweeping all the differences under the rug.

None of the goblins I've been fighting have been particularly spongey. They are sitting at about the same number of HP as the party. There are some exceptions, which are either bosses or mini bosses, and that's to be expected, I suppose. If they did anything fancy with the AI, the rules lawyers would be all over them, sort of like how some were complaining because they have special ammunition for their bows, and use it, instead of saving it for the player to loot, which you can, if you kill them fast enough.

There have been a number of hotfixes for issues already. That's far from "not listening". Some of this is even based off of not spending more time replying to stuff on the forums, or any time? It's not like I'm a die hard Larian fanboy either. I only played DOS 2 after I learned that they were making BG 3. This is one of the games on my "I'm never going to see it, but I sure want to" list. So, since I knew they were making this, and that it was going to play similarly, TB combat, I figured I'd try it out, and use it to get used to TB combat, since I haven't been a fan of it since ToEE.

To each their own, but trying to make the game that "we want" would be a monumental effort, because there would have to be tons of iterations, and that's never going to happen.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
Which "we"? Because there are things you want that I don't. There are things that bother you that don't bother me, like the tadpole. There are things we may well agree on, but the one thing, right off the bat, that we don't agree on is that, if Larian wanted to make DOS 3, they could have done a Kickstarter, and been successful with it. They have more than enough good will around the net from their previous KS campaigns, and the end results. Then there's the time I spent in DOS 2 this morning, while I waited for the tech to come out and fix my internet. A whole lot of people that are misremembering, or just hitting on confirmation bias over a few similarities, and sweeping all the differences under the rug.

None of the goblins I've been fighting have been particularly spongey. They are sitting at about the same number of HP as the party. There are some exceptions, which are either bosses or mini bosses, and that's to be expected, I suppose. If they did anything fancy with the AI, the rules lawyers would be all over them, sort of like how some were complaining because they have special ammunition for their bows, and use it, instead of saving it for the player to loot, which you can, if you kill them fast enough.

There have been a number of hotfixes for issues already. That's far from "not listening". Some of this is even based off of not spending more time replying to stuff on the forums, or any time? It's not like I'm a die hard Larian fanboy either. I only played DOS 2 after I learned that they were making BG 3. This is one of the games on my "I'm never going to see it, but I sure want to" list. So, since I knew they were making this, and that it was going to play similarly, TB combat, I figured I'd try it out, and use it to get used to TB combat, since I haven't been a fan of it since ToEE.

To each their own, but trying to make the game that "we want" would be a monumental effort, because there would have to be tons of iterations, and that's never going to happen.


Im sorry man, but youre whole statement is off. Goblins have 8 hp, this is in every version Monster Manual out there. Its great you appreciate Larian, and I thought D:OS1&2 were fun, but not as fun as they could have been. The collective "we" is the dozen of post about the issues I put out. Show me the positive feedback for barrellmancy or every enemy using acid bombs and arrows and the stupid terrain damage thats a part of every single battle. I feel you are part of the problem with this being closer to D:OS than being D&D. Read the forums, people arent happy with a lot of the gameplay features and movement away from a D&D feel. Maybe you have never sat at a table and played, but there is a lot of possible improvements that can be made, that will increase enjoyment. Im not even asking for MY features my point was to make a list and we all decide on what to bring up to the DEVs weekly. As a group we are stronger. As a single person on the forums being complacent, and arguing a "wont make a difference response" then yeah nothing changes. There is already a post with the list of items that are too similar to D:OS2 and they are keeping it bumped to the top of the forums.

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I wonder who else could create a game?
Rather not Obsidian after his recent defeats.
As for not listening to the players, given the average rating of the game, they did rather well.

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Originally Posted by Vekkares
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Which "we"? Because there are things you want that I don't. There are things that bother you that don't bother me, like the tadpole. There are things we may well agree on, but the one thing, right off the bat, that we don't agree on is that, if Larian wanted to make DOS 3, they could have done a Kickstarter, and been successful with it. They have more than enough good will around the net from their previous KS campaigns, and the end results. Then there's the time I spent in DOS 2 this morning, while I waited for the tech to come out and fix my internet. A whole lot of people that are misremembering, or just hitting on confirmation bias over a few similarities, and sweeping all the differences under the rug.

None of the goblins I've been fighting have been particularly spongey. They are sitting at about the same number of HP as the party. There are some exceptions, which are either bosses or mini bosses, and that's to be expected, I suppose. If they did anything fancy with the AI, the rules lawyers would be all over them, sort of like how some were complaining because they have special ammunition for their bows, and use it, instead of saving it for the player to loot, which you can, if you kill them fast enough.

There have been a number of hotfixes for issues already. That's far from "not listening". Some of this is even based off of not spending more time replying to stuff on the forums, or any time? It's not like I'm a die hard Larian fanboy either. I only played DOS 2 after I learned that they were making BG 3. This is one of the games on my "I'm never going to see it, but I sure want to" list. So, since I knew they were making this, and that it was going to play similarly, TB combat, I figured I'd try it out, and use it to get used to TB combat, since I haven't been a fan of it since ToEE.

To each their own, but trying to make the game that "we want" would be a monumental effort, because there would have to be tons of iterations, and that's never going to happen.


Im sorry man, but youre whole statement is off. Goblins have 8 hp, this is in every version Monster Manual out there. Its great you appreciate Larian, and I thought D:OS1&2 were fun, but not as fun as they could have been. The collective "we" is the dozen of post about the issues I put out. Show me the positive feedback for barrellmancy or every enemy using acid bombs and arrows and the stupid terrain damage thats a part of every single battle. I feel you are part of the problem with this being closer to D:OS than being D&D. Read the forums, people arent happy with a lot of the gameplay features and movement away from a D&D feel. Maybe you have never sat at a table and played, but there is a lot of possible improvements that can be made, that will increase enjoyment. Im not even asking for MY features my point was to make a list and we all decide on what to bring up to the DEVs weekly. As a group we are stronger. As a single person on the forums being complacent, and arguing a "wont make a difference response" then yeah nothing changes. There is already a post with the list of items that are too similar to D:OS2 and they are keeping it bumped to the top of the forums.


It is not very accurate. Most of the people who like the game don't write on the forums, in most cases it is done by people who aren't satisfied with the game.

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Games Larian makes are much closer to DnD tabletop than other crpgs are, even before BG3, that is all Larian has been making. Crpg games that try to be as close to the tabletop experience as they can.

Bg3 will feel closer to tabletop and than bg1 or 2 ever did by the time it is finished, unless they decide to stray further from it from now on, instead of closer.

Some rule changes need to be reverted, such as sneak as a bonus action, features need to be added, such as exhaustion and risk to resting, but that is just about it.

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Originally Posted by Vekkares
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Which "we"? Because there are things you want that I don't. There are things that bother you that don't bother me, like the tadpole. There are things we may well agree on, but the one thing, right off the bat, that we don't agree on is that, if Larian wanted to make DOS 3, they could have done a Kickstarter, and been successful with it. They have more than enough good will around the net from their previous KS campaigns, and the end results. Then there's the time I spent in DOS 2 this morning, while I waited for the tech to come out and fix my internet. A whole lot of people that are misremembering, or just hitting on confirmation bias over a few similarities, and sweeping all the differences under the rug.

None of the goblins I've been fighting have been particularly spongey. They are sitting at about the same number of HP as the party. There are some exceptions, which are either bosses or mini bosses, and that's to be expected, I suppose. If they did anything fancy with the AI, the rules lawyers would be all over them, sort of like how some were complaining because they have special ammunition for their bows, and use it, instead of saving it for the player to loot, which you can, if you kill them fast enough.

There have been a number of hotfixes for issues already. That's far from "not listening". Some of this is even based off of not spending more time replying to stuff on the forums, or any time? It's not like I'm a die hard Larian fanboy either. I only played DOS 2 after I learned that they were making BG 3. This is one of the games on my "I'm never going to see it, but I sure want to" list. So, since I knew they were making this, and that it was going to play similarly, TB combat, I figured I'd try it out, and use it to get used to TB combat, since I haven't been a fan of it since ToEE.

To each their own, but trying to make the game that "we want" would be a monumental effort, because there would have to be tons of iterations, and that's never going to happen.


Im sorry man, but youre whole statement is off. Goblins have 8 hp, this is in every version Monster Manual out there. Its great you appreciate Larian, and I thought D:OS1&2 were fun, but not as fun as they could have been. The collective "we" is the dozen of post about the issues I put out. Show me the positive feedback for barrellmancy or every enemy using acid bombs and arrows and the stupid terrain damage thats a part of every single battle. I feel you are part of the problem with this being closer to D:OS than being D&D. Read the forums, people arent happy with a lot of the gameplay features and movement away from a D&D feel. Maybe you have never sat at a table and played, but there is a lot of possible improvements that can be made, that will increase enjoyment. Im not even asking for MY features my point was to make a list and we all decide on what to bring up to the DEVs weekly. As a group we are stronger. As a single person on the forums being complacent, and arguing a "wont make a difference response" then yeah nothing changes. There is already a post with the list of items that are too similar to D:OS2 and they are keeping it bumped to the top of the forums.

Tells me my statement is off, and then proceeds to confirm my statement. In monster manuals across the board, ending in 4e, the last place I read one, because when I decided WotC dropped the ball, I actually quit buying their stuff, instead of talking about not buying their stuff, creatures have CRs. This means that you can assign a higher CR to a creature, and doing so has the effect of raising their base stats, which raises their HP. This is what I was talking about elsewhere about "rules lawyers" that don't understand the rules. I have read the forums, and I have run across countless posts just like yours. None of it has persuaded me that they're "right" or "wrong". The divide on Kagha situation is an ideal example. All the "but it made me feel bad" rules lawyers have gone on and on about how "but I don't like those consequences, so it's not fair", etc. The problem with your collective "we" is that it by default includes me, and yet, some of your opinions on the matter run contrary to what I think.

I, on the other hand, think that you're part of the problem. You cite rules, but don't understand how the rules work. But you take your understanding, or lack thereof, of those rules, and attempt to use it as a cudgel to beat others into submission. Sorry mate, but that's not going to work. I've played actual campaigns where we didn't have all the fantastical creatures that are available in the MM. I've played a campaign that revolved purely around defending a village/zone from invading goblins. How boring that campaign would have been if the goblins were locked at CR 1. Maybe they should have been limited to just using pointy sticks, and throwing rocks? I've already encountered the "don't mess up my story with your logic" posts about the goblin's equipment, and I have Absolute-ly pointed out that there is an explanation for that given in game, in the Druid's Grove, by a prominent NPC. You didn't pay enough attention, or pursue enough dialog to pick up on that, and yet, you're telling me how the game should have been developed? The last time I pointed that out, I was reprimanded by a poster for citing story reasons for things happening in a story based game... So "Bravo"?

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So many things invalid in OPs post
I feel they just want to make D:OS3 and not a true D&D experience with BG3. BG1&2 where great examples of translating the table top to your PC. Sure there were a few things changed here and there, but for the most part it was only to accommodate rules that wouldn't make sense in a video game.
Nope. This is actually closer to the rules as written than both BG1 and BG2. Here is why
-Turn based
-dice based (as in actual rolls—that are displayed)
-skills matter
-correct action economy as per 5e rules (ie 30ft movement, action, bonus action)
You also need to take into account that BG1 and BG2 were both based off of a different edition of D&D (and imo an inferior one, but that's my opinion)
I was frustrated about my Ranger missing most of the time at the start of BG3, buuuuut I was also missing mainly when in caves or dungeons and it took me a bit to realize I was shooting at disadvantage because my human doesnt have darkvision.
Umm yep that’s D&D my friend—not sure if you have ever played it or not but that is exactly rules as written.
Also you complain about luck of the rolls…. I mean really? That’s just luck, you can’t change that.
The other main thing I have read from people that were part of D:OS2 EA, is that Larian wont listen and collaborate with players.
Do you subscribe to the email gazette from Larian? They are already working on implementing changes from feedback in the next patch!
You also mention goblin hit points as being 8—actually in the MM it is displayed as 7 (2d6)—this means it can be 7 (the average) or anywhere from 2-12, also their default AC is 15 due to leather armor and a shield. Yes Larian has modded HP values (inflating them) but that is due to the inclusion of surface effects (which admittedly isn’t rules as written but makes the game more fun and tactical)

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So many points of pointlessness. You guys don’t have a clue what you’re talk about. Just off the top of my head, Gobljns can only be CR1 dependent on weapons? I don’t think you understand CR. It’s a DnD game cause there are dice rolls and turned based combat? So? Pathfinder is turn based and dice based, it’s not DnD. This game has its good points (ya know like me pointing out not having dark vision and missing) but it’s got so much bad. But hey you guys keep grinding Larians Lap, I’m sure they are going to pay for it soon. My point was this game’s bad outweigh the good. There is time to make it better. Time for us to ask for better. There is a list out there right now, that’s about 80 items long that point out how this is too much of a re-skin of D:OS. But yeah I was off by 1hp about a goblin.....so 2d6...2-12......then why is the majority of the Goblin camp 18-24? I guess you just need to validate my post, not look into what people are saying. Grow up kids! People are trying to make sure we aren’t getting a BS D:OS game and a much closer to DND experience. Why don’t you go take mommy’s credit card and go rack up micro transactions on forkknife so you can make your character gloss dance and continue to ruin the gaming industry.

Last edited by Vekkares; 29/10/20 11:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Vekkares
There is a list out there right now, that’s about 80 items long that point out how this is too much of a re-skin of D:OS. But yeah I was off by 1hp about a goblin.....so 2d6...2-12......then why is the majority of the Goblin camp 18-24? I guess you just need to validate my post, not look into what people are saying. Grow up kids! People are trying to make sure we aren’t getting a BS D:OS game and a much closer to DND experience. Why don’t you go take mommy’s credit card and go rack up micro transactions on forkknife so you can make your character gloss dance and continue to ruin the gaming industry.



Tune it down. Your end comments are misplaced to say the least.

When it comes to Larian being the right company to take on BG3 -> There's no doubt about it. Only them could do it.

Bioware tried 20-ish years ago to do BG3. They canceled the project and did other games instead.
Obsidian tried to do something in the spirit of BG and we know how PoE2 ended up. Obsidian went bankrupt if i remember correctly.
Pathfinder kingmaker is now sold together with outward and their sales combined in March 2020 seem to be 1.2M copies. ( source for sales, not sure if trustworthy but still: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/pres...mbined_Sales_Exceed_12_Million_Units.php)

In the meantime, Larian outsold them in less than 24 hours with less than 20% of their game being ready.

Yes, sales are an important argument cause if your point is " many people want this to look totally different, check the number of posts " then 3 different studios already shown it's not the case. Larian does it differently and it works. They are the only company in 20 years who convinced WotC they can get the license and make it successful. It's only thanks to them that we will get to make our wet dreams about BG3 a reality.

I won't get into what I think could be done differently etc there are separate threads for every single one of your concerns. Not speaking about the fact this thread is pointless in my opinion. Not sure what you want to achieve here and at that point, I don't think you do either.

Also you might be forgetting in the end it's just a video game. A game that, if done well could be redefining the industry of cRPG just as BG2 did 20 years ago. That's what we all want. But still, only a video game.


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Can we just consolidate all of these posts into one megathread where people who have no idea how game development works go 20 pages deep agreeing with each other?
A literal 1:1 translation of tabletop to video games makes for shitty video games. These posts are the absolute worst.


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Virion, I disagree a little.
I think Obsidian could have done it.
And even if they bankrupt (what I'm not aware of) he doesn't mean a lot.
In fact, PoE 2 was far way better than PoE.
I need years and a new game to end PoE 1 but I played several games of PoE 2. I really advise people who was... lukewarm (hope it's the good word) after PoE 1 to try PoE 2. It's... the same but better. More colorfull and pleasant to play (from my point of view...).

Yet, you can't compare pahtfinder kingmaker sells to DoS 2 sells.
DoS 2 was a 2 and so take advantage fo this point,
as BG3 take a big advantage of being the third of a legendary serie.
I wont say Owl company would have be fit for BG3 but I could have said or even say that, maybe, obsidian would have been more appropriate.


To conclude, I, personnally, regret having purchasing the EA. I would still buy the game later but I feel like I have support something really far from what I was expecting.
And, even if the game is good and fun, I really don't think it will redefine the cRPGs. Firstly because this feels a lot like DOS (so DoS can be seen as a redefining game), secondly because, even if the game is a success, it's obivous now that many peoples feel betrayed by their game design.
So maybe I'm wonrg but I strongly doubt that this BG3 will become a reference. It'll be at least a good game but I would be surprised, for now, if it becomes something as legendary as BG1,2 or Witcher or wasteland or etc.

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I kind of agree but don't want to count them out just yet. The old studios who made amazing D&D games are all gone. Maybe obsidian could have done it, but have you seen NWN 2? It is awful and that was obsidian. Do you have a better suggestion? Even if i did want the plug pulled from them, contracts have likely been signed so it is too late to stop it. The best we can do is keep complaining and hope they listen. If they don't, just refund it or don't buy it to begin with. If they don't listen BG3 will just be known as the black sheep of the series and they probably won't get another deal. Worst case scenario, they just release divinity 3 and modders take over to make it a real D&D game. So maybe its not all bad?


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Honestly Pillars 2 Deadfire combat, exp and dialogue system is pretty good, shame it sold so poorly.

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Originally Posted by Vaell
I kind of agree but don't want to count them out just yet. The old studios who made amazing D&D games are all gone. Maybe obsidian could have done it, but have you seen NWN 2? It is awful and that was obsidian. Do you have a better suggestion? Even if i did want the plug pulled from them, contracts have likely been signed so it is too late to stop it. The best we can do is keep complaining and hope they listen. If they don't, just refund it or don't buy it to begin with. If they don't listen BG3 will just be known as the black sheep of the series and they probably won't get another deal. Worst case scenario, they just release divinity 3 and modders take over to make it a real D&D game. So maybe its not all bad?


Obsidian are busy with Avowed anyways.
Last game they made was.... Grounded, lol.

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It’s weird that when Deadfire launched I remember feeling almost alone in saying it was a massive improvement over the snooze fest that PoE 1 was for me (especially past a certain point) while I was buried by comments claiming the first was so much better.

A couple of years later and basically everyone seem to have changed their mind about it.


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Provocative title, but not really backed up by any kind of solid argument. Maybe it's because I don't play D&D, probably is, but while this game has problems here and there that need to be sorted I don't think "Larian studio is the wrong studio". Also the only time I've seen a truly justified wrong studio was Gearbox and Alien colonial marines. Now that was some insanity.

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If they wanted to make D:OS3 they would've just made DOS:3. They own their own IP. They just had massive critical and financial success with DOS:2. There is literally no reason for them to not just make D:OS3 if they really wanted to.

They chose to make BG3.

Furthermore, the spirit of Dungeons and Dragons is not found in the player's handbook. It isn't the rules as written. It is on the tabletop between the Dungeon Master and the players. It is in their hearts and minds and all the wacky chicanery they come up with as they play a game that is not limited by code in what you can do.

That is why Larian was chosen. Because their express goal as a company has been to try to bring that kind of fluid, improvisational tactical thinking to a medium that typically doesn't allow it. The rules may not be a perfect 1 to 1 recreation of 5e, but that isn't really the goal. The goal is to make a game where player choice reigns supreme and you can go ahead and try to seduce that dragon if you really want to.

It will never be the same as tabletop of course. Not until we get fully sapient AI, anyway, and by then we'll be living in an apocalypse where the machines have conquered us and begun the eradication of human life. So this is the best we can hope for. We just gotta give Larian as much feedback as we can so that at least most of the wacky adventurous schemes we can hatch is doable in the game.

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Yeah no. They are translating pnp to a 3 d world, you want fully authentic pnp on the compute get tabletop simulator

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