Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#721230 29/10/20 02:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
L
Lightzy Offline OP
journeyman
OP Offline
journeyman
L
Joined: Aug 2015
Your second rest at camp, you haven't even explored at all really, didn't try (and fail) enough at other 'fixes', and already he comes and says "And no solution in sight!", while I have like, 5 different solutions in sight.

Doesn't feel right.

He should visit later, after you tried and failed at some other "solutions". Maybe after you resolve the druid grove or reach some other point in the plot.

Last edited by Lightzy; 29/10/20 09:28 AM.
Joined: Sep 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Sep 2020
Give him some time and be patient with him. He's working on his stamina.

But seriously, maybe I'm just not abusing rests often enough, but he never showed up quite that early for me.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Duchess of Gorgombert
Offline
Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
He turned up on my second night the first time through and after about a week on the second. I don't know if there's a particular trigger (I'd presumed it was taking advantage of Tadpole Authority but haven't done that this time) or if it's just random. Or maybe an update changed it.

Edit: or some other trigger: I've been much slower to recruit everyone in the team this time.

Last edited by vometia; 29/10/20 03:16 AM.

J'aime le fromage.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
It took a couple nights my first playthrough. My second he showed up the very first time I did a long rest. Never used the tadpole.

It might be after you speak with Nettie? Or maybe after the first failed attempt at removing it in general.

I kind of like that he shows up early. He's the only signifier the player gets that the tadpole isn't about to transform you any second now and that you can relax and explore a bit.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Someone said that the trigger was concluding any one of your leads about getting rid of the tadpole.
It could be Nettie, Halsin, the hag... Or whatever else is there as an option, can't remember.

Also, I got him at my very first long rest, but that's probably because I rest very rarely in general so I had already played a significant chunk of content by then. People who do it after every single minor fight probably had to wait few nights before seeing him.

Last edited by Tuco; 29/10/20 03:33 AM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Duchess of Gorgombert
Offline
Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Originally Posted by Tuco
Someone said that the trigger was concluding any one of your leads about getting rid of the tadpole.

Could be: the major thing I'd done prior to that was the githyanki patrol, which didn't go as well as planned. Well, that and dying: I don't recall if that was the first time.


J'aime le fromage.
Joined: Oct 2020
S
Banned
Offline
Banned
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Yeah, he shows way to early and it doesnt make any sense in the structure of the narrative as it is.

The whole start of the game suffers from trying to create an extreme rush about the tadpole which the whole actual gameplay experience works against. Because resting is absolutely necessary for your characters to function at all - to be able to do anything about the condition. Because all the companions gameplay and info is connected exclusively to resting - and all of that is directly tied to the main plot and the condition itself.

It can be easily corrected by simply having Laezel and Shadowheart expressing concern but acknowledging you must risk a rest or two in order to even try to find a solution.
In my case it was Gale who after the first rest points out we didnt sprout tentacles and that something is not as usual. Thats all we need.
The tadpole itself could and actually should - atleast imply that its not about to turn you into a Mindflayer, but instead offer powers and stuff as it does anyway.

Raphael should appear only after we finish the Grove - Goblins quests.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
Raphael needs some sexual counseling then.

Joined: Oct 2020
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Surface R
Yeah, he shows way to early and it doesnt make any sense in the structure of the narrative as it is.

The whole start of the game suffers from trying to create an extreme rush about the tadpole which the whole actual gameplay experience works against. Because resting is absolutely necessary for your characters to function at all - to be able to do anything about the condition. Because all the companions gameplay and info is connected exclusively to resting - and all of that is directly tied to the main plot and the condition itself.

It can be easily corrected by simply having Laezel and Shadowheart expressing concern but acknowledging you must risk a rest or two in order to even try to find a solution.
In my case it was Gale who after the first rest points out we didnt sprout tentacles and that something is not as usual. Thats all we need.
The tadpole itself could and actually should - atleast imply that its not about to turn you into a Mindflayer, but instead offer powers and stuff as it does anyway.

Raphael should appear only after we finish the Grove - Goblins quests.


The problem is that you can easily miss it. Events in the camp shouldnt be possible to miss (unless npc is dead),
because it causes terrible problems in the narrative.

Joined: Oct 2020
S
Banned
Offline
Banned
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Yup.

And that happens because the intro is telling you one thing but the gameplay actually requires and makes mandatory behaving directly opposite to that.

Apparently we are only aware of the tadpole because the process was cut short. Other NPCs that have it think they just got awesome powers and even refuse to believe its a Illithid tadpole.
The danger of it can be maintained in the narrative, but the intro should not put so much emphasis on "dont rest at all!"

As i suggested in my post about the writing in the start of the game there are numerous ways how the start and first companions could work to establish at least one rest is necessary. A risk that cannot be avoided.
You should all be hurt, spells drained, "I... i must rest, i cant go on much further like this. We cant just not sleep forever. Lets rest at least once to recover our strength. etc, etc"

"You feel the tadpole telling you its safe to rest. You will wake up stronger." - Do you trust it?

Laezel : "No dont trust it. Its all lies! I can go on without ever sleeping again!" - snores.

Shadowheart "We have no choice, we must rest and... just risk it"

And so on.

Joined: Oct 2020
A
stranger
Offline
stranger
A
Joined: Oct 2020
I think Raphael's appearance is tied to the quest in the ruins (ie. the event that happens after you fight the skeletons), but I'm not sure.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
addict
Offline
addict
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Considering your brain is normally consumed within hours under normal ceromorphosis standards id say he appears way to late. Hed be tallking to the tadpole if we were a 'normal' scenario.

Joined: Oct 2020
A
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
A
Joined: Oct 2020
Raphael is a very dead end in Act1. Mostly because he doesn't give you a path forward. He just comes along, and goes away.

It's not like he offers where we should go to meet him later. And he is "continued" by you thinking about him on the boat.
Swen kept saying you can meet him out in the wild, and if you miss him he comes to your camp. I have 100+ hours in the game, and hasn't met him out in the wild once I think.

All in all he's a dead end in EA, and should have been left out until we can actually progress one step with his story.

Consider our other "options for the Tadpole":

1. Lae'zels option. We can't finish it in EA, but we get the option from Lae'zel, and seek out the Gith. Progress is made in EA.
2. "we NEED to FIND! a HEALER!" Netty, Gut, Haelsin etc. This progresses the story, it gives us the mountain path option or the underdark option. We work on it, and we get progress.
3. Raphael. He comes, he talks, no one believes him, and we never see him again. No progress.

He has a bit of the same issue I have with the evil path. His offer isn't given at a time where we the player is desperate. We aren't afraid of the tadpole, so we wouldn't make a deal with a devil. The character might be afraid, but it doesn't show for us.
Especially when we realize that we won't turn into a Mind Flayer any time soon.
The offer he gives isn't an offer at all.

So yeah Raphael shows up too early, and has nothing to offer.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Raphael needs some sexual counseling then.


Every time I read the title...


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
Joined: Mar 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2020
My experiences with Raphie:

He always shows up on your first long rest after you talk to Nettie and she fail to cure you which can happen super early in the game.
He shows up in the first long rest after meeting Korrine if you haven't meet him yet (this seems to override Shadowheart's camp Temple-triggered scene might I add or maybe I didn't get it because I didn't trigger the village one, not sure).

He does not show up if you kill the 3 leaders, free Haslin and then go do the Underdark following the party (never talked to Nettie). The only content I haven't done in that character was the Hag and some minor encounters in the Underdark (I did talk to the Society of Brilliance, did the quest and got the mind-shielding ring). I had cleared the Gith patrol before freeing Haslin too. Zero Raphie and the ending EA cinematic support never meeting him too.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
Doesn't he also get embarrassed when you immediately take him up on his offer?

Like; "Uhh... You're going to beg me for it later instead! Goodbye!" or something along those lines?

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
I'm relieved I'm not the only one who first thought of the poor cambion's bedroom woes when reading the title. My hat is off to you, my fellow mental 12-year-olds.

As for the actual point of the thread, yes, I think his particular trigger can happen so early the entire scene seems a bit jarring. Which is a shame, because I think the scene in and of itself is very well done and his VA is knocking it out of the park. But he should really appear at a later point. If Larian wants to introduce him earlier, they can do so with his human guise (which I also thought he was dropping way too quickly).

Joined: Oct 2020
S
Banned
Offline
Banned
S
Joined: Oct 2020
When you talk to the Goblin Priestess Glut and she takes you aside, and then to a dungeon. When you have dialogue there and fail the dice rolls she and her bodyguard try to kill you, you can attempt to break free and if you fail that too Raphael servant intervenes and kills them both. Some kind of a halfling wizard. She tells you to be more careful because they cant save you all the time and says she was sent by Raphael. Because they are keeping their eye on you.

So... i guess Raphael has to make an appearance before that events can happen. But it would be nice if it was less blunt.

Additionally when talking to Karlach you can get a sort of telepathic visit by Zariel who apparently has some "feelings" about you and that whole deal.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by Tuco
Someone said that the trigger was concluding any one of your leads about getting rid of the tadpole.
It could be Nettie, Halsin, the hag... Or whatever else is there as an option, can't remember.

Also, I got him at my very first long rest, but that's probably because I rest very rarely in general so I had already played a significant chunk of content by then. People who do it after every single minor fight probably had to wait few nights before seeing him.

I can confirm that. for most players he comes after Nettie since she is the most likely lead people pursue first. I skipped her and tried the GIthenki guys and he appeared only after encountering them. It seems like a relatively easy thing to fix - make him come after finishing two or three leads instead of one


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Mar 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2020
Originally Posted by Surface R
When you talk to the Goblin Priestess Glut and she takes you aside, and then to a dungeon. When you have dialogue there and fail the dice rolls she and her bodyguard try to kill you, you can attempt to break free and if you fail that too Raphael servant intervenes and kills them both. Some kind of a halfling wizard. She tells you to be more careful because they cant save you all the time and says she was sent by Raphael. Because they are keeping their eye on you.

So... i guess Raphael has to make an appearance before that events can happen. But it would be nice if it was less blunt.


She doesn't name Raphael if you have never meet him before that scene, she only does if you have. I have played through both cases, her responses are different based on if you know about Rapheal already or not.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5