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The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.

Difficulty Settings
The original game let us choose between the core rules or more forgiving homebrew options. The same should be expected in this installment of the game as well. Where is it? You can even improve upon this by adding options like iron man mode for every difficulty so choices are always permanent.
[Linked Image]


NPC Interaction
In the original games you always knew when you were about to enter a conversation because the character would get a highlight, call out to you and actively move towards you before the direct interaction began. This is missing in its entirety and is the direct cause of much of the "skill check" complaints you see on these forums. You could interrupt this interaction by either running away from said npc before they got too close, successfully stealthing via a check or invisibility, or interrupt it by attacking the character. This kind of interaction is important and is entirely missing!


World Interaction
In the original games, you could run off and explore 95% of the entire game world after the initial intro. In this game large chunks of the world are locked behind forced conversations or world events unless you know they are going to happen and actively work around them. This game feels like you are forcing plot down our throats at every turn, leading to much of the resistance you are now getting from your player base. If we want to explore the whole world before engaging in plot, or wander into a cave full of CR8 mobs at level 2 that should be allowed without having to know about a forced conversation or cut scene and metagaming our way around it. Plot should not be gating most of the world from us. I don't want to see the "chapters" of the world we can no longer go back to like in divinity either. Let us explore the whole world from the start instead of locking out large chunks of it as we progress. If people want to rush through plot that is fine, but it shouldn't be placed in such a way that plot is necessary to explore the world.


Combat and Balance
As of right now, consumable item spam and ranged combat is dramatically superior to melee alternatives. If you are melee you are often relegated to just throwing the quite plentiful offensive conusumables. This isn't good design, it is a bandaid on a bad system. This makes item spam and ranged combat feel like a requirement. We feel punished for choosing melee. The number of consumables are far too plentiful and need to be reduced dramatically, and i mean by like 80% or more. There are too many ranged enemies as well, often making melee feel worthless. So much for class choice meaning anything. The number of ranged enemies needs to at least be cut in half and replaced by melee. A good DM designs encounters based on a party composition. As this is a videogame, that isn't possible. So a good balance down the middle is absolutely essential for making our choices feel meaningful. You are currently failing at this hard and need to take a hard look at a lot of combat encounters. The extreme amount of verticality and advantage gained by high ground makes ranged combat way too powerful too.


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Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.



Combat and Balance
As of right now, consumable item spam and ranged combat is dramatically superior to melee alternatives. If you are melee you are often relegated to just throwing the quite plentiful offensive conusumables. This isn't good design, it is a bandaid on a bad system. This makes item spam and ranged combat feel like a requirement. We feel punished for choosing melee. The number of consumables are far too plentiful and need to be reduced dramatically, and i mean by like 80% or more. There are too many ranged enemies as well, often making melee feel worthless. So much for class choice meaning anything. The number of ranged enemies needs to at least be cut in half and replaced by melee. A good DM designs encounters based on a party composition. As this is a videogame, that isn't possible. So a good balance down the middle is absolutely essential for making our choices feel meaningful. You are currently failing at this hard and need to take a hard look at a lot of combat encounters. The extreme amount of verticality and advantage gained by high ground makes ranged combat way too powerful too.



I'll let others debate your first three points but I made a melee that is probably the highest DPS char possible within current EA game mechanics, insane movement per turn and auto self heals every hit with high AC and and HP's. It's all about how you build them, personally I felt ranged was weak. /shrug.

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Originally Posted by Vaell
In the original games you always knew when you were about to enter a conversation because the character would get a highlight, call out to you and actively move towards you before the direct interaction began. This is missing in its entirety and is the direct cause of much of the "skill check" complaints you see on these forums. You could interrupt this interaction by either running away from said npc before they got too close, successfully stealthing via a check or invisibility, or interrupt it by attacking the character. This kind of interaction is important and is entirely missing!


Setpiece storytelling is preventing them from doing this. In BGIII every interaction is a cutscene and every player response triggers another little cutscene.

For example, if you manage to get past the grove entrance setpiece battle at the beginning of the game, the sequence breaks and characters like Zevlor have undefined cutscene triggers, causing them to stand around and do nothing.

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There is no difficulty settings because they haven't been implemented yet. No point in doing so until they gameplay is locked down. You know, early access.


You can go from the beach to the end of the EA (ship) without talking to anyone, only requirement is the Grove gate battle. This effectively ends the EA, the cinematics support having done nothing (I tried it, only mention finding the Grove which can't be avoided).
There are two other places you can quit the map (open the world map) too, no requirement to use those exits outside finding them, but you get a Early Access message at the bottom of the world map.


NPC Interactions where avoidable in the old games? You could avoid Gorian's death cutscene, Orly?

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Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.


Difficulty Settings
The original game let us choose between the core rules or more forgiving homebrew options. The same should be expected in this installment of the game as well. Where is it? You can even improve upon this by adding options like iron man mode for every difficulty so choices are always permanent.
[Linked Image]



I agree with this. Difficulty obviously isn't implemented in the game yet, but I'd rather ask for this now instead of seeing a difficulty settings similar to DOS and be disappointed. I'd love to see a Kingmaker-esque Difficulty system where you can determine a whole bunch of things (aside from just encounter toughness) - Resting limitations/options, Death Options, etc.


Originally Posted by Vaell

NPC Interaction
In the original games you always knew when you were about to enter a conversation because the character would get a highlight, call out to you and actively move towards you before the direct interaction began. This is missing in its entirety and is the direct cause of much of the "skill check" complaints you see on these forums. You could interrupt this interaction by either running away from said npc before they got too close, successfully stealthing via a check or invisibility, or interrupt it by attacking the character. This kind of interaction is important and is entirely missing!



It was kind of the same in BG2 (my memories of BG1 is more hazzy) in terms of "soft railroads" to kick off quests. You couldn't sneak past the Genie in Aerie's Circus Tent (you have to do the Riddle) - and you also can't sneak past Aerie (convo auto-start on area entry). The Paladins at Windspear Hills are also unavoidable. Etc, etc.

In fact, BG3 is sort of better than BG2 in this regard because you can attack anyone mid-conversation (with the built-in attack button).




Originally Posted by Vaell

World Interaction
In the original games, you could run off and explore 95% of the entire game world after the initial intro. In this game large chunks of the world are locked behind forced conversations or world events unless you know they are going to happen and actively work around them. This game feels like you are forcing plot down our throats at every turn, leading to much of the resistance you are now getting from your player base. If we want to explore the whole world before engaging in plot, or wander into a cave full of CR8 mobs at level 2 that should be allowed without having to know about a forced conversation or cut scene and metagaming our way around it. Plot should not be gating most of the world from us. I don't want to see the "chapters" of the world we can no longer go back to like in divinity either. Let us explore the whole world from the start instead of locking out large chunks of it as we progress. If people want to rush through plot that is fine, but it shouldn't be placed in such a way that plot is necessary to explore the world.



Didn't the speedrunners already proved that you can do this in BG3 by completing the EA in 7 minutes? While there are certain set-pieces that will drag you into dialogue if you approach from the front, there are plenty of side paths that, with a little bit of stealth, will let you progress to the next area.

In terms of returning to areas, I too hope they will leave previous areas opened. The assumption that previous areas will become close stems from DOS, which isn't an unfair assumption until they've said otherwise.



Originally Posted by Vaell

Combat and Balance
As of right now, consumable item spam and ranged combat is dramatically superior to melee alternatives. If you are melee you are often relegated to just throwing the quite plentiful offensive conusumables. This isn't good design, it is a bandaid on a bad system. This makes item spam and ranged combat feel like a requirement. We feel punished for choosing melee. The number of consumables are far too plentiful and need to be reduced dramatically, and i mean by like 80% or more. There are too many ranged enemies as well, often making melee feel worthless. So much for class choice meaning anything. The number of ranged enemies needs to at least be cut in half and replaced by melee. A good DM designs encounters based on a party composition. As this is a videogame, that isn't possible. So a good balance down the middle is absolutely essential for making our choices feel meaningful. You are currently failing at this hard and need to take a hard look at a lot of combat encounters. The extreme amount of verticality and advantage gained by high ground makes ranged combat way too powerful too.




I feel like melee is just as strong, if not stronger. IMO, backstab advantage is easier to obtain than high-ground advantage because you're not terrain dependent, and 99% of the time, it doesn't matter what the enemy does, you can always reposition to flank them. Whereas highground is easily lost the moment someone jumps up there with you. You also risk a shove of death when standing on highgrounds (unless you're constantly burning Feather Fall). Because of the threaten mechanic, every time a melee character is in range of a ranged character, you're by default favored in that battle.

Closing in on enemies is made much easier with Jump being so good (most of the time you don't even have to burn a dash action). Ladders currently cost 0 movement to go up. You can even throw/shove your own teammates to give them more movement if desperate. Plus, you get an absurd amount of items that improve your mobility in BG3 (Misty Step amulet, Boots of Speed, Usable Misty Step Scrolls). My level 4 BG3 fighter moves better than most high-level PnP martial characters.

There are obviously situations where ranged is favored, but part of the challenge and tactical fun is overcoming that situation. I worry that some players may have their view of combat skewed because they got smoked at the entrance to the Blighted Village (probably the one of the worst range vs. melee situation, due to terrain and you having limited equipment/options).

Plus, I'd argue that having strictly "melee/ranged-only" characters is a false paradigm. Characters should be rewarded for being capable of being versatile. Similarly, characters that can cover-up the weaknesses of their favored style (i.e. melees that can gap-close effectively), should also be rewarded.







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Early days yet OP - cant say I agree about melee characters myself - i hardly ever throw anything but thats my choice, I want my melee characters in the thick of it whenever possible. I think some of the options for difficulty etc will obviously be implemented in time. We are in early access - not all open worlds are good, personally I enjoy something of a mixture, as long as the core gameplay mechanics work & the story is decent I find it engaging enough. But yes we are all different Larian has the task of trying to find that middle ground where most of us are happy.

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Melee is definitely incredibly strong. 2 handed melee builds are very effective. In fact, it's almost like easy mode because all you gotta do is hop behind enemies and smack them and you'll probably be completely fine

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Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.



Combat and Balance
As of right now, consumable item spam and ranged combat is dramatically superior to melee alternatives. If you are melee you are often relegated to just throwing the quite plentiful offensive conusumables. This isn't good design, it is a bandaid on a bad system. This makes item spam and ranged combat feel like a requirement. We feel punished for choosing melee. The number of consumables are far too plentiful and need to be reduced dramatically, and i mean by like 80% or more. There are too many ranged enemies as well, often making melee feel worthless. So much for class choice meaning anything. The number of ranged enemies needs to at least be cut in half and replaced by melee. A good DM designs encounters based on a party composition. As this is a videogame, that isn't possible. So a good balance down the middle is absolutely essential for making our choices feel meaningful. You are currently failing at this hard and need to take a hard look at a lot of combat encounters. The extreme amount of verticality and advantage gained by high ground makes ranged combat way too powerful too.



I'll let others debate your first three points but I made a melee that is probably the highest DPS char possible within current EA game mechanics, insane movement per turn and auto self heals every hit with high AC and and HP's. It's all about how you build them, personally I felt ranged was weak. /shrug.


Probably because you played a rogue and not a warrior or a cleric^^

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.


Difficulty Settings
The original game let us choose between the core rules or more forgiving homebrew options. The same should be expected in this installment of the game as well. Where is it? You can even improve upon this by adding options like iron man mode for every difficulty so choices are always permanent.
[Linked Image]



I agree with this. Difficulty obviously isn't implemented in the game yet, but I'd rather ask for this now instead of seeing a difficulty settings similar to DOS and be disappointed. I'd love to see a Kingmaker-esque Difficulty system where you can determine a whole bunch of things (aside from just encounter toughness) - Resting limitations/options, Death Options, etc.


Originally Posted by Vaell

NPC Interaction
In the original games you always knew when you were about to enter a conversation because the character would get a highlight, call out to you and actively move towards you before the direct interaction began. This is missing in its entirety and is the direct cause of much of the "skill check" complaints you see on these forums. You could interrupt this interaction by either running away from said npc before they got too close, successfully stealthing via a check or invisibility, or interrupt it by attacking the character. This kind of interaction is important and is entirely missing!



It was kind of the same in BG2 (my memories of BG1 is more hazzy) in terms of "soft railroads" to kick off quests. You couldn't sneak past the Genie in Aerie's Circus Tent (you have to do the Riddle) - and you also can't sneak past Aerie (convo auto-start on area entry). The Paladins at Windspear Hills are also unavoidable. Etc, etc.

In fact, BG3 is sort of better than BG2 in this regard because you can attack anyone mid-conversation (with the built-in attack button).




Originally Posted by Vaell

World Interaction
In the original games, you could run off and explore 95% of the entire game world after the initial intro. In this game large chunks of the world are locked behind forced conversations or world events unless you know they are going to happen and actively work around them. This game feels like you are forcing plot down our throats at every turn, leading to much of the resistance you are now getting from your player base. If we want to explore the whole world before engaging in plot, or wander into a cave full of CR8 mobs at level 2 that should be allowed without having to know about a forced conversation or cut scene and metagaming our way around it. Plot should not be gating most of the world from us. I don't want to see the "chapters" of the world we can no longer go back to like in divinity either. Let us explore the whole world from the start instead of locking out large chunks of it as we progress. If people want to rush through plot that is fine, but it shouldn't be placed in such a way that plot is necessary to explore the world.



Didn't the speedrunners already proved that you can do this in BG3 by completing the EA in 7 minutes? While there are certain set-pieces that will drag you into dialogue if you approach from the front, there are plenty of side paths that, with a little bit of stealth, will let you progress to the next area.

In terms of returning to areas, I too hope they will leave previous areas opened. The assumption that previous areas will become close stems from DOS, which isn't an unfair assumption until they've said otherwise.



Originally Posted by Vaell

Combat and Balance
As of right now, consumable item spam and ranged combat is dramatically superior to melee alternatives. If you are melee you are often relegated to just throwing the quite plentiful offensive conusumables. This isn't good design, it is a bandaid on a bad system. This makes item spam and ranged combat feel like a requirement. We feel punished for choosing melee. The number of consumables are far too plentiful and need to be reduced dramatically, and i mean by like 80% or more. There are too many ranged enemies as well, often making melee feel worthless. So much for class choice meaning anything. The number of ranged enemies needs to at least be cut in half and replaced by melee. A good DM designs encounters based on a party composition. As this is a videogame, that isn't possible. So a good balance down the middle is absolutely essential for making our choices feel meaningful. You are currently failing at this hard and need to take a hard look at a lot of combat encounters. The extreme amount of verticality and advantage gained by high ground makes ranged combat way too powerful too.




I feel like melee is just as strong, if not stronger. IMO, backstab advantage is easier to obtain than high-ground advantage because you're not terrain dependent, and 99% of the time, it doesn't matter what the enemy does, you can always reposition to flank them. Whereas highground is easily lost the moment someone jumps up there with you. You also risk a shove of death when standing on highgrounds (unless you're constantly burning Feather Fall). Because of the threaten mechanic, every time a melee character is in range of a ranged character, you're by default favored in that battle.

Closing in on enemies is made much easier with Jump being so good (most of the time you don't even have to burn a dash action). Ladders currently cost 0 movement to go up. You can even throw/shove your own teammates to give them more movement if desperate. Plus, you get an absurd amount of items that improve your mobility in BG3 (Misty Step amulet, Boots of Speed, Usable Misty Step Scrolls). My level 4 BG3 fighter moves better than most high-level PnP martial characters.

There are obviously situations where ranged is favored, but part of the challenge and tactical fun is overcoming that situation. I worry that some players may have their view of combat skewed because they got smoked at the entrance to the Blighted Village (probably the one of the worst range vs. melee situation, due to terrain and you having limited equipment/options).

Plus, I'd argue that having strictly "melee/ranged-only" characters is a false paradigm. Characters should be rewarded for being capable of being versatile. Similarly, characters that can cover-up the weaknesses of their favored style (i.e. melees that can gap-close effectively), should also be rewarded.







Ironically, my Drow Thief took out the village by accidentally wandering into it from the wrong side. The first fight was tough, but after that? Not so much. it essentially got broken down into 3 encounters, a 4 on 4, where 2 of 4 of goblins had high ground, but got it nullified by my moving around to the back stairs, where they couldn't get line of sight, and had to move that way, then a single goblin after that encounter, and then the last 5, which I took out by sneaking up on the first two, and backstabbing the closest one to start combat. 3 of those combatants nullified themselves initially by not moving to engage, but just trash talking, so that may need to be looked at. I never got the cutscene with the Goblin either.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Probably because you played a rogue and not a warrior or a cleric^^


Rogue can also be very strong with 18 dex and enough constitution and appropriate weapons, but warrior definitely felt like an easier time

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.

[quote=Vaell]
World Interaction
In the original games, you could run off and explore 95% of the entire game world after the initial intro. In this game large chunks of the world are locked behind forced conversations or world events unless you know they are going to happen and actively work around them. This game feels like you are forcing plot down our throats at every turn, leading to much of the resistance you are now getting from your player base. If we want to explore the whole world before engaging in plot, or wander into a cave full of CR8 mobs at level 2 that should be allowed without having to know about a forced conversation or cut scene and metagaming our way around it. Plot should not be gating most of the world from us. I don't want to see the "chapters" of the world we can no longer go back to like in divinity either. Let us explore the whole world from the start instead of locking out large chunks of it as we progress. If people want to rush through plot that is fine, but it shouldn't be placed in such a way that plot is necessary to explore the world.



Didn't the speedrunners already proved that you can do this in BG3 by completing the EA in 7 minutes? While there are certain set-pieces that will drag you into dialogue if you approach from the front, there are plenty of side paths that, with a little bit of stealth, will let you progress to the next area.

In terms of returning to areas, I too hope they will leave previous areas opened. The assumption that previous areas will become close stems from DOS, which isn't an unfair assumption until they've said otherwise.


The point here is that you need to know this ahead of time to avoid it. This is called metagaming. My point is the original baldurs gate rarely did this to you. You can explore 90% of the world without ever touching plot naturally instead of having to actively sneak around it. But it was also there in your journal telling you where to go if you chose to listen. The way the story is currently lined up is done in exactly the opposite way of the original.


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Originally Posted by denhonator
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Probably because you played a rogue and not a warrior or a cleric^^


Rogue can also be very strong with 18 dex and enough constitution and appropriate weapons, but warrior definitely felt like an easier time


I really don't agree.
They have a high AC and can be strong (that's what the class is) but playing them is a chore and means running everywhere after ennemies in most combats if you don't range attack. Disengage is broken and so is the melee fight... And if you don't jump at each turn, playing them is even worse.

I'll be glad to try a nearly full melee party... but I guess it's gonna be so boring...

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I agree with most of your point OP but a lot of it is up to EA; right not granular feedback about what wee currently have available is probably going to be more effective overall. This was the same way DOS2 developed; the first few patches were stability then they opened up to feature changes.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.



Combat and Balance
As of right now, consumable item spam and ranged combat is dramatically superior to melee alternatives. If you are melee you are often relegated to just throwing the quite plentiful offensive conusumables. This isn't good design, it is a bandaid on a bad system. This makes item spam and ranged combat feel like a requirement. We feel punished for choosing melee. The number of consumables are far too plentiful and need to be reduced dramatically, and i mean by like 80% or more. There are too many ranged enemies as well, often making melee feel worthless. So much for class choice meaning anything. The number of ranged enemies needs to at least be cut in half and replaced by melee. A good DM designs encounters based on a party composition. As this is a videogame, that isn't possible. So a good balance down the middle is absolutely essential for making our choices feel meaningful. You are currently failing at this hard and need to take a hard look at a lot of combat encounters. The extreme amount of verticality and advantage gained by high ground makes ranged combat way too powerful too.



I'll let others debate your first three points but I made a melee that is probably the highest DPS char possible within current EA game mechanics, insane movement per turn and auto self heals every hit with high AC and and HP's. It's all about how you build them, personally I felt ranged was weak. /shrug.


Probably because you played a rogue and not a warrior or a cleric^^


A Melee rogue. DPS wise a warrior or ranger would be close but the movement would suffer a bit without cunning dash to reposition.

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Why does everyone feel the need for provocative thread titles?

:rollseyes:

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Originally Posted by Vaell
Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.

[quote=Vaell]
World Interaction
In the original games, you could run off and explore 95% of the entire game world after the initial intro. In this game large chunks of the world are locked behind forced conversations or world events unless you know they are going to happen and actively work around them. This game feels like you are forcing plot down our throats at every turn, leading to much of the resistance you are now getting from your player base. If we want to explore the whole world before engaging in plot, or wander into a cave full of CR8 mobs at level 2 that should be allowed without having to know about a forced conversation or cut scene and metagaming our way around it. Plot should not be gating most of the world from us. I don't want to see the "chapters" of the world we can no longer go back to like in divinity either. Let us explore the whole world from the start instead of locking out large chunks of it as we progress. If people want to rush through plot that is fine, but it shouldn't be placed in such a way that plot is necessary to explore the world.



Didn't the speedrunners already proved that you can do this in BG3 by completing the EA in 7 minutes? While there are certain set-pieces that will drag you into dialogue if you approach from the front, there are plenty of side paths that, with a little bit of stealth, will let you progress to the next area.

In terms of returning to areas, I too hope they will leave previous areas opened. The assumption that previous areas will become close stems from DOS, which isn't an unfair assumption until they've said otherwise.


The point here is that you need to know this ahead of time to avoid it. This is called metagaming. My point is the original baldurs gate rarely did this to you. You can explore 90% of the world without ever touching plot naturally instead of having to actively sneak around it. But it was also there in your journal telling you where to go if you chose to listen. The way the story is currently lined up is done in exactly the opposite way of the original.

Running away from an NPC to avoid dialog has a name too, care to guess what it is? If you guessed "metagaming", you win the "oops, I used metagaming as an example of a good thing in one game, and then tried to claim it's bad in another" prize.

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Originally Posted by Riandor
Why does everyone feel the need for provocative thread titles?

:rollseyes:

it got you to click it right?

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Right now, you could easily stumble upon underdark any time after the goblin fight at the grove gate. First playthrough, I didn't find Halsin. Didn't help the tieflings or the goblins. Found underdark and navigated past scary fights and found the boat that ends EA. Accidentally skipped most of the main story. The story could easily pick up from there as you find out these guys are messing with your parasite. There are also 2 others exits out of the EA area that we don't know how they will play out. I really wouldn't say the story forces you to follow it in the sequence it tells you about stuff. To me it seems like you can totally just go look around and should eventually find leads.

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Originally Posted by denhonator
Right now, you could easily stumble upon underdark any time after the goblin fight at the grove gate. First playthrough, I didn't find Halsin. Didn't help the tieflings or the goblins. Found underdark and navigated past scary fights and found the boat that ends EA. Accidentally skipped most of the main story. The story could easily pick up from there as you find out these guys are messing with your parasite. There are also 2 others exits out of the EA area that we don't know how they will play out. I really wouldn't say the story forces you to follow it in the sequence it tells you about stuff. To me it seems like you can totally just go look around and should eventually find leads.

i agree; I don't feel any form of linearity i just do more and more things in different ways as i find them since right now the sandbox is limited. i did my first play through on my rogue where i found shadow heart and completed most the grove arch and the tea house arch without finding lae'zel for example.

also how many people found the
Harper cache?
exploration is very much encouraged.

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Originally Posted by Vaell
Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Vaell
The original Baldur's Gate games gave you choices at every turn. Here is a list of things you can implement to satisfy pretty much everyone, while improving the options of the original games.

[quote=Vaell]
World Interaction
In the original games, you could run off and explore 95% of the entire game world after the initial intro. In this game large chunks of the world are locked behind forced conversations or world events unless you know they are going to happen and actively work around them. This game feels like you are forcing plot down our throats at every turn, leading to much of the resistance you are now getting from your player base. If we want to explore the whole world before engaging in plot, or wander into a cave full of CR8 mobs at level 2 that should be allowed without having to know about a forced conversation or cut scene and metagaming our way around it. Plot should not be gating most of the world from us. I don't want to see the "chapters" of the world we can no longer go back to like in divinity either. Let us explore the whole world from the start instead of locking out large chunks of it as we progress. If people want to rush through plot that is fine, but it shouldn't be placed in such a way that plot is necessary to explore the world.



Didn't the speedrunners already proved that you can do this in BG3 by completing the EA in 7 minutes? While there are certain set-pieces that will drag you into dialogue if you approach from the front, there are plenty of side paths that, with a little bit of stealth, will let you progress to the next area.

In terms of returning to areas, I too hope they will leave previous areas opened. The assumption that previous areas will become close stems from DOS, which isn't an unfair assumption until they've said otherwise.


The point here is that you need to know this ahead of time to avoid it. This is called metagaming. My point is the original baldurs gate rarely did this to you. You can explore 90% of the world without ever touching plot naturally instead of having to actively sneak around it. But it was also there in your journal telling you where to go if you chose to listen. The way the story is currently lined up is done in exactly the opposite way of the original.



I don't think the meta-gaming argument works since BG3 does a great job of giving you in-game warnings whenever you are about to come into "set-pieces". If you're roleplaying an avoidant character (i.e. a sneaky rogue), you're constantly given heads up to avoid things without the need for metagaming.

For example:

1) The Grove Entrance Battle - the game tells you there is shouting up ahead. Most people investigate because they are curious (NPCs encourage it), but there is no need for your character to head that way, especially if they are paranoid avoidant. You can skip the entire Grove area if your curiosity takes you elsewhere.

2) The Blighted Village - there is a perception check (which tells you an ambush is up ahead) and a band of dead adventurers warning you that the frontal entrance is dangerous. The intersection leading into the village have multiple paths, and the cutscene does not trigger until you're firmly pass the gate. Heading either North or South gives you options to continue going West.

Is your issue that there aren't enough open areas free of encounter? While I personally have complaints about how close certain things feel from a world-building perspective (Goblin Camp, Druid Grove, and a Rest-stop Inn all right beside each others?), I don't think the game is at all a railroad. The level-design clearly does direct you to each event because they want you to see the content, but they never force you.


Lastly, I don't think the statement "You can explore 90% of the world without ever touching plot naturally" is a fair criticism. It's a request I can agree with, but we can't assume it won't be there in the game.

90% of the BG3 world simply isn't there right now. We don't know what we're allowed to explore or not at this point. What we have right now is the equivalent of maybe Irenicus' dungeon + Waukeen's Promenade available if we're thinking of BG2. Even accounting for that, if you currently decide that heading to Baldur's Gate is an important goal in BG3, there doesn't seem to be anything stopping you from doing so in the EA. No meta-gaming required.

The plot-hook / main motivation in BG3 actually does a great job of encouraging you to explore while driving you forward (which a lot of RPGs have trouble on). If anything, BG3 only feels linear because the game does too good of a job tying in the main motivation with side quests. The Grove, Auntie Ethel, The Goblin Camps - they are all basically side quests that are tightly woven into the main plot.

You don't have a direct solution to the tadpole issue, so your only goal is to explore and meet powerful people who might be able to help. If you don't do that, you think you'll die. All the sidequests take this into account. Get in the Grove to see Nettie. Deal with the Goblins to find Halsin. Explore the Swamp to talk to Auntie Ethel. Etc.


Compare that to BG2. You're exploring to make money to get to Spellhold, because you want to save Imoen - whom the game assumes you care about. You have an excuse to explore, but once you have the 20k, it becomes tougher to justify narratively (BG2 does do a good job of interlinking Chapter 2 and 6 to help resolve that). Speaking of player freedom, in BG2, you are FORCED to work with 1 of 2 factions to progress to Spellhold (there is no I hate you both, I'll go on my own). You try to betray and fight them, an invincible assassin/vampire appears and just one-shots you.

This is coming from someone who loves BG2 and played the game to death.

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