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#724755 01/11/20 09:11 AM
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Hi all~ I figured I'd make a general discussion thread for the romances of the game. What we'd like to see from them, predictions, thoughts and theories, what we like and what we don't like.

This is kind of a carry over from this thread: (warning: spoilers)
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=723625&page=1

Although this began as a thread for a Halsin Romance is spiraled into a discussion between Astarion devotees (of which I am one.)

For me, one of the biggest draws for massive character driven games is the romance. The Bioware games have, by and large, the masters of this. But with Bioware going downhill over the years, I'm very hopeful that Larian can fill the void.

Big things I would like to see:
- a great deal more character interactions based on approval
- More opportunities to get approval ratings from character conversations
- Player influenced character development (good characters may become less good, evil characters may become less evil depending on player choices.)
- additional romance options based on choices (Halsin for the good route, Minthara for evil route)
- actual happy endings! Maybe this sounds childish but fantasy games offer escapism. I don't want tragedies. I have enough of those in real life! (I can deal with a degree of heartache but, please, no terrible, unavoidable endings to the romances.)

P.S.
Romance Discord: https://discord.gg/JnPcvGr
Thank you Vamathi for sharing it!


Last edited by pinklily; 01/11/20 10:16 PM.
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Continuation from the Halsin thread ¬

Originally Posted by Nicottia
Oh, Astarion is definitely hiding something, but I wouldn't call him a liar for it, he's just not really forthcoming with information, just like some of the other companions... *cough* Shadowheart *cough* Wyll *cough*. The only 2 ridiculously honest ones are: Gale, altho it takes him a while to get there, and Lae'zel - she wants to become a dragon rider. That is all she wants. Oh, and creeeeeche.

Well, about gur and Astarion, I just assumed he had an uncharacteristic, for a 9INT character, strike of 6th sense.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gur Maybe he just guessed by Gandrel's appearance that he's a gur or all that scented crap has given him away. Speaking of which, I wonder how strong is a vampire's sense of smell. Well, Astarion does say that he was attacked by gur on that fateful night when Cazador had found him, maybe he has the same obsession with gur that Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer series) has with killing slayers? Who knows?
About Cazador hunting Astarion, I do think it has something to do with those big scars on Astarion's back. Just a guess.

And Astarion wasn't on the run, when you mind meld with him for the first time you get a vision that he's been prowling dark busy streets (presumably for Cazador), then he got snatched away by the illithids and the rest is history. We don't rightly know how long Astarion has been held captive by the mind flayers, it could be a day, a week? I daresay it's safe to assume it's been long enough to get Cazador angered though.
But whatever the case might be, I do agree, it requires some further explanation.


It's hard to trust him, but it's also hard not to get yourself completely smitten XD
I find some of his approval up choices very curious. Some food for thought and heavy spoilers:
For example if you buy the artist in Zhentarim hideout - there is an option to tell Astarion that he is your slave, and he approves of it.He also both approves if the MC tortures Liam or gets tortured by the follower of Loviatar; is it just because he is a vampire, or is there some loose screws in that porcelain head?

There are definitely some missing dialogue chains with Astarion; possibly just not triggering completely.
The most obvious one is if he kills you MC during feeding, I mean... Really? He doesn't address this at all?

I've been retrying different quest paths to see, if I can meet the Hunter to get the knowledge that there is a vampire lurking about. Basically confront Astarion and tell him I know or that I am suspicious of him?
I tried both letting Astarion kill the Hunter and leaving him alone, without the knowledge on my PC that Astarion is a the vampire; For reference and and flipping out.
I don't think Astarion kills him just because he feels like we are being pulled in by a story of this mild hunter. This dialogue pops up if you tell him 'What the hells? He could have helped us!'
Another thing is that if you tell Astarion after killing Gandrel out of nowhere - 'Trust you? After that?' - he responds with this.

If my point isn't clear yet: I believe Astarion is seducing the PC to be obedient and not to question him. He wants a full trust from you, but sees why you wouldn't and I had the same feeling through multiple playthroughs.
Is he already on the power hunt as soon as he joins the party? He might have even thought he could just control us all, at some point; if the tadpole grows strong enough.
In datamined VA I found him saying: 'Never play a player.' and 'Oh you never know, someday you might end up as me?' Neither if which did I recognize from my previous playthroughs. Lastly I believe he will likely say this at some point during your encounter in Moonrise:
'Trading some whelp we've just met for impossible power? It's a fine deal.'

Unfortunately I went through several different paths, there wasn't a new dialogue option for when he would eventually trigger the feeding scene and reveal he is a vampire himself, nor was there any new dialogue option when we found the dead boar.
Only after the cinematic you can go to him and ask this, if you already killed the Gur; but he doesn't reveal anything new and sticks to his story. When we didn't kill the Gur before Astarion's reveal, there was no new dialogue.

There is also a way to get the knowledge that it is Astarion that the Gur is looking for before he tells you he is a vampire - for reference.
If you hire him after, you can't address this at all.

You might be right that Astarion identified Gur based on appearance; I tought he looked bit too much like a generic human tbh


Originally Posted by Nicottia
My first run was with a seldarine drow female cleric of Eilistraee, and of course I did romance Astarion on that run... although... for a 'good aligned cleric' it makes little to no sense to romance an undead creature... so my roleplaying skills were shit that day. laugh

My 2nd full run was with a high elven female wizard, I was curious if Astarion's lines would change at all for her being a high elf and a noble, but nope. 0 recognition aside from them both being baldurians... Larian, please fix, make backgrounds matter!

On my 3rd run I tried a warlock, but I haven't finished that one... I may have gotten a nasty case of rerollitis (it's what I call constantly creating new characters and deleting them later). Honestly? I am waiting for sorcerer to be implemented. I absolutely love that class. Oh speaking of warlocks, I was shocked when I found that Astarion does recognize you being a warlock for once, after Raphael's little visit, he confronts with something along the lines of 'you are a warlock, you know the importance of making a bad deal'. Makes me wonder how come he doesn't recognize a goddamn cleric on spot. Especially considering clerics have turn undead, heals (which technically should damage undead creatures like... errr.. vampires maybe?). I blame his 9INT. wink

Long story short, I haven't romanced another character but Astarion in BG3. Send help. laugh

And yes, Astarion's voice actor is amazing. And sorry you lost your job. ;(

Honestly I will definitely attempt to sway Astarion from the more evil/power-hungry route if that's what's gonna happen. I actually think drow Eilistraee cleric makes a lot of sense! You could just genuinely want to free him and potentially bring him back to life. She seems like a good deity for that and the drow involvement is clear as well. I just don't know if our hearts will be shattered or not...

Oh I suffer from rerolling as well, but I find Cleric the most useful if I want to run through the game and try a couple of different options. I even run two clerics party as I really don't have to care about picking out almost anything else. I have a secret wish that we would get the unofficial class - blood hunter. That would be interesting party dynamic with Astarion.

And thank you <3


Last edited by Vamathi; 01/11/20 10:57 AM.

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Originally Posted by Vamathi
Continuation from the Halsin thread ¬

Originally Posted by Nicottia
Oh, Astarion is definitely hiding something, but I wouldn't call him a liar for it, he's just not really forthcoming with information, just like some of the other companions... *cough* Shadowheart *cough* Wyll *cough*. The only 2 ridiculously honest ones are: Gale, altho it takes him a while to get there, and Lae'zel - she wants to become a dragon rider. That is all she wants. Oh, and creeeeeche.

Well, about gur and Astarion, I just assumed he had an uncharacteristic, for a 9INT character, strike of 6th sense.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gur Maybe he just guessed by Gandrel's appearance that he's a gur or all that scented crap has given him away. Speaking of which, I wonder how strong is a vampire's sense of smell. Well, Astarion does say that he was attacked by gur on that fateful night when Cazador had found him, maybe he has the same obsession with gur that Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer series) has with killing slayers? Who knows?
About Cazador hunting Astarion, I do think it has something to do with those big scars on Astarion's back. Just a guess.

And Astarion wasn't on the run, when you mind meld with him for the first time you get a vision that he's been prowling dark busy streets (presumably for Cazador), then he got snatched away by the illithids and the rest is history. We don't rightly know how long Astarion has been held captive by the mind flayers, it could be a day, a week? I daresay it's safe to assume it's been long enough to get Cazador angered though.
But whatever the case might be, I do agree, it requires some further explanation.


It's hard to trust him, but it's also hard not to get yourself completely smitten XD
I find some of his approval up choices very curious. Some food for thought and heavy spoilers:
For example if you buy the artist in Zhentarim hideout - there is an option to tell Astarion that he is your slave, and he approves of it.He also both approves if the MC tortures Liam or gets tortured by the follower of Loviatar; is it just because he is a vampire, or is there some loose screws in that porcelain head?

There are definitely some missing dialogue chains with Astarion; possibly just not triggering completely.
The most obvious one is if he kills you MC during feeding, I mean... Really? He doesn't address this at all?

I've been retrying different quest paths to see, if I can meet the Hunter to get the knowledge that there is a vampire lurking about. Basically confront Astarion and tell him I know or that I am suspicious of him?
I tried both letting Astarion kill the Hunter and leaving him alone, without the knowledge on my PC that Astarion is a the vampire; For reference and and flipping out.
I don't think Astarion kills him just because he feels like we are being pulled in by a story of this mild hunter. This dialogue pops up if you tell him 'What the hells? He could have helped us!'
Another thing is that if you tell Astarion after killing Gandrel out of nowhere - 'Trust you? After that?' - he responds with this.

Unfortunately I went through several different paths, there wasn't a new dialogue option for when he would eventually trigger the feeding scene and reveal he is a vampire himself, nor was there any new dialogue option when we found the dead boar.
Only after the cinematic you can go to him and ask this, if you already killed the Gur; but he doesn't reveal anything new and sticks to his story. When we didn't kill the Gur before Astarion's reveal, there was no new dialogue.

There is also a way to get the knowledge that it is Astarion that the Gur is looking for before he tells you he is a vampire - for reference.
If you hire him after, you can't address this at all.

You might be right that Astarion identified Gur based on appearance; I tought he looked bit too much like a generic human tbh


Originally Posted by Nicottia
My first run was with a seldarine drow female cleric of Eilistraee, and of course I did romance Astarion on that run... although... for a 'good aligned cleric' it makes little to no sense to romance an undead creature... so my roleplaying skills were shit that day. laugh

My 2nd full run was with a high elven female wizard, I was curious if Astarion's lines would change at all for her being a high elf and a noble, but nope. 0 recognition aside from them both being baldurians... Larian, please fix, make backgrounds matter!

On my 3rd run I tried a warlock, but I haven't finished that one... I may have gotten a nasty case of rerollitis (it's what I call constantly creating new characters and deleting them later). Honestly? I am waiting for sorcerer to be implemented. I absolutely love that class. Oh speaking of warlocks, I was shocked when I found that Astarion does recognize you being a warlock for once, after Raphael's little visit, he confronts with something along the lines of 'you are a warlock, you know the importance of making a bad deal'. Makes me wonder how come he doesn't recognize a goddamn cleric on spot. Especially considering clerics have turn undead, heals (which technically should damage undead creatures like... errr.. vampires maybe?). I blame his 9INT. wink

Long story short, I haven't romanced another character but Astarion in BG3. Send help. laugh

And yes, Astarion's voice actor is amazing. And sorry you lost your job. ;(

Honestly I will definitely attempt to sway Astarion from the more evil/power-hungry route if that's what's gonna happen. I actually think drow Eilistraee cleric makes a lot of sense! You could just genuinely want to free him and potentially bring him back to life. She seems like a good deity for that and the drow involvement is clear as well. I just don't know if our hearts will be shattered or not...

Oh I suffer from rerolling as well, but I find Cleric the most useful if I want to run through the game and try a couple of different options. I even run two clerics party as I really don't have to care about picking out almost anything else. I have a secret wish that we would get the unofficial class - blood hunter. That would be interesting party dynamic with Astarion.

And thank you <3



You put a lot of work into this! I applaud your dedication. This is all very interesting.

I'm really hoping we get some additional dialogues that reference a character's race and background. That would really help with overall immersion, as well as make the interactions more interesting across different playthroughs.

I really hope they add some lines for situations like when he accidentally kills the MC. He makes that comment about "don't look at me" but then when you get revived and talk to him he completely skips the post feeding conversation. When you ask him about it he goes straight to the "I already apologized" dialogue. I feel like an additional conversation here is absolutely necessary since the MC can be revived and it's not a game over.

And you touch on what I was referring to when I mentioned that Astarion lies. Not regarding the Cazador stuff and his background, but there's just a general deceptiveness to his treatment of the MC. So I don't mean lies in terms of direct untruths, so much as most of his behavior is an act and you can see this drop when he gets frustrated/frightened. But it's an element of his character I find interesting. The act is largely part of his barrier to keep people at a distance. I'm curious about how this may change over time.

And yes, my biggest, biggest hope is that the romances will have multiple paths depending on how the MC plays. I really hope a good natured MC can help Astarion through a redemption arc. I absolutely love those kinds of stories. I don't want him to change inherently as a character. Just to come to see the world in a different light and (hopefully) have a good ending with the MC.

But I'm still readying myself for heartbreak. frown

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To tell the truth, while I am a big proponent of romances (especially same sex ones) in video games, and their existence is a major factor in my deciding to buy a game, honestly none of the LIs in the game so far is very appealing to me. Gale is arrogant, condescending and speaks to me like I'm a 6 year old, and not a very smart one at that, Astarion would kill me without batting a lid and then get annoyed if I found that out of line, Wyll, while the most palatable, is just this weird man-child with delusions of grandeur, and if we add the girls to the mix (which I usually don't, but just for completeness sake), Shadowheart is just evil and mean, while Lae'zel seems to combine all the worst of Gale and Shadowheart.
If the rumours (and contaminants) are true, and the rest of the party are indeed Minsc, Karlach, and this Helia woman, I am left with no real romance. Courting Minsc, with his mental condition sounds exploitative and creepy (to me, you do you). And the other two, while unknown for now, are women... So... Yeah... I'm at a loss.

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Unpopular opinion: I'd like the option to completely turn romance off.

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You can... Just don't pursue it...

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Originally Posted by Callimachus
To tell the truth, while I am a big proponent of romances (especially same sex ones) in video games, and their existence is a major factor in my deciding to buy a game, honestly none of the LIs in the game so far is very appealing to me. Gale is arrogant, condescending and speaks to me like I'm a 6 year old, and not a very smart one at that, Astarion would kill me without batting a lid and then get annoyed if I found that out of line, Wyll, while the most palatable, is just this weird man-child with delusions of grandeur, and if we add the girls to the mix (which I usually don't, but just for completeness sake), Shadowheart is just evil and mean, while Lae'zel seems to combine all the worst of Gale and Shadowheart.
If the rumours (and contaminants) are true, and the rest of the party are indeed Minsc, Karlach, and this Helia woman, I am left with no real romance. Courting Minsc, with his mental condition sounds exploitative and creepy (to me, you do you). And the other two, while unknown for now, are women... So... Yeah... I'm at a loss.


While I personally adore Astarion, I get why none of the current companions would be appealing. I 100% agree regarding Minsc. I feel like he'd be a great platonic option for people who just want friendships but I don't feel like he's a good option for the "good" aligned male romance. This is why I'm advocating for a Halsin romance in this thread's parent thread. He's a character who is good looking, charming, warm and friendly toward the mc. If he isn't a romance option in the final game I think it would be a massive missed opportunity.

Last edited by pinklily; 01/11/20 11:15 AM.
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Originally Posted by pinklily
You put a lot of work into this! I applaud your dedication. This is all very interesting.

I'm really hoping we get some additional dialogues that reference a character's race and background. That would really help with overall immersion, as well as make the interactions more interesting across different playthroughs.

I really hope they add some lines for situations like when he accidentally kills the MC. He makes that comment about "don't look at me" but then when you get revived and talk to him he completely skips the post feeding conversation. When you ask him about it he goes straight to the "I already apologized" dialogue. I feel like an additional conversation here is absolutely necessary since the MC can be revived and it's not a game over.

And you touch on what I was referring to when I mentioned that Astarion lies. Not regarding the Cazador stuff and his background, but there's just a general deceptiveness to his treatment of the MC. So I don't mean lies in terms of direct untruths, so much as most of his behavior is an act and you can see this drop when he gets frustrated/frightened. But it's an element of his character I find interesting. The act is largely part of his barrier to keep people at a distance. I'm curious about how this may change over time.

And yes, my biggest, biggest hope is that the romances will have multiple paths depending on how the MC plays. I really hope a good natured MC can help Astarion through a redemption arc. I absolutely love those kinds of stories. I don't want him to change inherently as a character. Just to come to see the world in a different light and (hopefully) have a good ending with the MC.

But I'm still readying myself for heartbreak. frown

Added this since you read it I think;
If my point isn't clear yet: I believe Astarion is seducing the PC to be obedient and not to question him. He wants a full trust from you, but sees why you wouldn't and I had the same feeling through multiple playthroughs.
Is he already on the power hunt as soon as he joins the party? He might have even thought he could just control us all, at some point; if the tadpole grows strong enough.
In datamined VA I found him saying:
'Never play a player.' and 'Oh you never know, someday you might end up as me?' Neither if which did I recognize from my previous playthroughs. Lastly I believe he will likely say this at some point during your encounter in Moonrise:
'Trading some whelp we've just met for impossible power? It's a fine deal.'

I am really hoping the tags will have more different outcomes. If there even more different tags, that will result into the same dialogue from the origin character more often I will be sad frown

Astarion said: 'Oh gods something terrible happened!' the last time my character died at his hand, waiting to be resurrected. Goddamn twat. It definitely needs to be addressed. Imagine you don't like his character, but are curios what happens - it would genuinely anger you or you would fail 2 rolls in a row you'd really want to kick him out of the party right there for it...

Originally Posted by Callimachus
To tell the truth, while I am a big proponent of romances (especially same sex ones) in video games, and their existence is a major factor in my deciding to buy a game, honestly none of the LIs in the game so far is very appealing to me. Gale is arrogant, condescending and speaks to me like I'm a 6 year old, and not a very smart one at that, Astarion would kill me without batting a lid and then get annoyed if I found that out of line, Wyll, while the most palatable, is just this weird man-child with delusions of grandeur, and if we add the girls to the mix (which I usually don't, but just for completeness sake), Shadowheart is just evil and mean, while Lae'zel seems to combine all the worst of Gale and Shadowheart.
If the rumours (and contaminants) are true, and the rest of the party are indeed Minsc, Karlach, and this Helia woman, I am left with no real romance. Courting Minsc, with his mental condition sounds exploitative and creepy (to me, you do you). And the other two, while unknown for now, are women... So... Yeah... I'm at a loss.

If you like genuinely good characters than yes, you are in trouble selecting right now. I expected Wyll to be that role, but no. You have described him well... I don't even care to get to know his character at the moment.


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The theory of Astarion using the MC by seducing them to keep them as an ally makes total sense considering that he's the only companion who you can romance regardless of approval (as far as I know). I also always thought his "dear" and "darling" sounded condescending rather than flirty >>

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I'll just keep romancing my dream sequence character, cuz damn he's hot LOL smile

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Originally Posted by carcra
The theory of Astarion using the MC by seducing them to keep them as an ally makes total sense considering that he's the only companion who you can romance regardless of approval (as far as I know). I also always thought his "dear" and "darling" sounded condescending rather than flirty >>

In the beginning he will use darling and dear quite condescendingly indeed. Personally it didn't bother me, as I think it fits perfectly for a rogue character.
The approval is a good thing to note for the theory, but it might just be EA shenanigans.

I think entire Astarion romance is just tied to quests at the moment, I had really hard time reproducing some of the conversations, if I progressed with something even though his approval hasn't changed. I mean it doesn't make sense that he would stay there if you take days to get through ACT 1. Shadowheart will seek you out. Maybe Astarion will try to slaughter your party at some point, if you don't take him with you in the beginning.
Not to mention that you can technically get Astarion late, after you already have tad pole powers. If you didn't trigger the vampire reveal yet, you can get the dialogue about Who is Cazador after the dream sequence. He will tell you that he has a vampire master, like you already know that he is vampire, only you don't. It makes no sense.
Originally Posted by flick40
I'll just keep romancing my dream sequence character, cuz damn he's hot LOL smile

Pics or didn't happen, all my dream characters look like potatoes, but that's mostly due to buggy scenes I guess.


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I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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I just noticed that my autocorrect changed datamining to contaminants... Weird.

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Astarion is my favorite romance so far and you all have some very interesting thoughts about it!

I know I am concerned about how it all might play out. I am hoping he will genuinely fall in love with the PC. When I played DOS2 I know I was super disappointed in the Red Prince romance and I just don't want that to happen again. :P

Though during the Astarion 'star gazing' scene I think he does look a little smitten with the PC.

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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


Err, twister national olympics can happen regardless of romance. laugh

Here's proof:
[Linked Image]



@Vamathi ... please forgive me if I don't massively quote and respond to every point like I did before, a bit too tired for it right now, but overall, I agree, Astarion is a manipulator. All our current companions are, minus Wyll I'd say.

And yes, unpopular opinion, but I find Shadowheart to be quite manipulative too, not on the lvl Astarion is, but she's close enough. Anyhow, after Anders from DA2 and Solas from DAI, I'm hella paranoid of all possible romance options in games. And with popularity of GoT (like I mentioned in previous thread), I really think we're in for some interesting plot twists. Not necessarily regarding Astarion, but the other companions, especially Shadowheart, are on my radar... and Gale. I've come across this entertaining conspiracy theory on reddit about Gale being truly evil. It's an interesting read for sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jlu5yh/ruminations_whats_your_crazy_theory/

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Originally Posted by Nicottia
And yes, unpopular opinion, but I find Shadowheart to be quite manipulative too, not on the lvl Astarion is, but she's close enough. Anyhow, after Anders from DA2 and Solas from DAI, I'm hella paranoid of all possible romance options in games. And with popularity of GoT (like I mentioned in previous thread), I really think we're in for some interesting plot twists. Not necessarily regarding Astarion, but the other companions, especially Shadowheart, are on my radar... and Gale. I've come across this entertaining conspiracy theory on reddit about Gale being truly evil. It's an interesting read for sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jlu5yh/ruminations_whats_your_crazy_theory/


Shadowheart is a Sharran, she should be manipulative, it's one of their main traits.

And I don't trust Gale either and that was before reading that Reddit thread. What a sleaze. Good thing I failed to get that weave scene every time, lol.

And lol at Anders and Solas...Morrigan too in DAO, on a smaller scale. In Dragon Age, do not trust the apostate mage.

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I legit think Astarion is probably the most honest LI in right now

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I didn't like all last companions in Bioware games, Astarion like a breath of fresh air. But I really don't want the characters to become "kinder". Maybe neutral, but not kinder. It destroys their identity. Those pointless arches of redemption again. A good ending with two villains, why not? Why do they have to become kinder? Most often, I play chaotic evil, so I have a lot of choice in this game. Finally, I don't have to play the good soul for the sake of romantic interest.

Arch of redemption - is really what scares me for Astarion and Lae'zel. I don't want to see it or even know it for this two.

Now I'm concerned about the fact that there are scenes with characters only in camp. You may accidentally miss them or get them wrong way. For example, Astarion can tell you about his master even before you know that he is a vampire!

Also, I noticed that if you walk with only one character, they will give their comments on almost every situation. But if you go with 3, you only get 1 random comment. I don't like it, like I'll know what Gale wants, but I won't know what Astarion thinks, just because game won't let him say.

Sad.

edit: I also don't know why someone think Astarion's romance doesn't need approval. I saw he’s reject someone at a tiefling party.

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If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.

Joined: Oct 2020
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Originally Posted by Nicottia
please forgive me if I don't massively quote and respond to every point like I did before, a bit too tired for it right now, but overall, I agree, Astarion is a manipulator. All our current companions are, minus Wyll I'd say.

And yes, unpopular opinion, but I find Shadowheart to be quite manipulative too, not on the lvl Astarion is, but she's close enough. Anyhow, after Anders from DA2 and Solas from DAI, I'm hella paranoid of all possible romance options in games. And with popularity of GoT (like I mentioned in previous thread), I really think we're in for some interesting plot twists. Not necessarily regarding Astarion, but the other companions, especially Shadowheart, are on my radar... and Gale. I've come across this entertaining conspiracy theory on reddit about Gale being truly evil. It's an interesting read for sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jlu5yh/ruminations_whats_your_crazy_theory/

I disagree with most of them being manipulative.

I haven't romanced Shadowheart, but I did reveal her secret and had her in my party for several playthroughs and I do not find her manipulative. Very secretive and likely to bacstab you? Propably, but honestly - all of the characters are. And I really like it because it invites some interesting dynamics and so much potential for gazillion playthroughs.

Lae'Zel is just doing what she thinks is best, I feel like especially after 1st tadpole power she is friendlier, although approval might have triggered that as well smile Anyways, she warmed up to me, both of them did. And I don't feel the looming gloom as much as with Astarion.
I've read that theory about Gale! I think it's very likely there's more to him than meets the eye. I must admit I am not very interested in having him around once he ask to eat relics. What if I am feeding some evil god?!

Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
I legit think Astarion is probably the most honest LI in right now

To be honest I thought this up until I went to the hunter without Astarion. I don't entirely believe the reason why the vampire hunter is after him specifically (discussed it somewhere above in spoilers). My main reason is that the hunter doesn't know how he looks, which seems like a major oversight someone as scheming as Cazador sounds.
If he is truthful about that, than I believe that Astarion is indeed the most honest LI. If he is lying about it, than I am really curious what the reason could be.

There is so many questions, as to how the story will develop and it's also core to understanding the possibilities of him backstabbing you... Because of how power hungry and broken/damaged Astarion is, he shouldn't be completely trusted.
If the tadpole stays in our head the entire time in BG3, than I trust him, mostly. This would solve the issue of Astarion leaving the party in case you help him with his quest - whatever that is. Without a tadpole and being true vampire. I don't see why he would stick with you, as he would likely burn in the sunlight.

He is likely to manipulate you to help him kill Cazador and once he achieved both goals, he is free. He mentions maybe having his own coven in one of the dialogues I believe. He also talks about how it never happens, that a vampire shares in his power with a vampire spawn. I believe he is honest with both of these as his goals.
If we can manage to control the tadpole powers and unless there is some sudden power shift and he feels like he is on the losing side I think we are all good.

Anyways the true bad ending to Astarion romance, would be losing him from your party too soon.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
edit: I also don't know why someone think Astarion's romance doesn't need approval. I saw he’s reject someone at a tiefling party.

Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.

Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.

My idea of a 'redemption' ark for Astarion is bringing in his morally damaged character to do the right thing... If you can achieve the good ending together, no matter what way you got there. It's still good, only chaotic good smile
Astarion's internal dialogue clearly says he is proud if he party sides with the dark forces vs. this.
It is clear what his choice would be...

Last edited by Vamathi; 01/11/20 06:50 PM.

“There is only one thing we say to Death:
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