Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 179
N
member
Offline
member
N
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by Nicottia
@Vamathi those theories of yours are quite interesting and entertaining. Oh and about Astarion's age - he's a high elf, they live long lives, average lifespan being 750 years. Now he has gray hair, lore wise it's been mentioned many times that elves eternally stay at an adult stage, until they are close to dying of old age, so it's not uncommon for an elf to retain their natural hair color until they are 600 I guess? 700 maybe? I mention this because Astarion's hair and eyebrows are gray, so at the moment of his death, he must've been quite old. For sure more than 500 years old. As to why he has no wrinkles? It could be an illusion, or elves aging differently could be to blame, although, in FR I haven't seen many references to super ancient wrinkled elves. I'm not an expert on elven D&D lore, but I guess I know slightly more than your average person, since I have a huge obsession with elves in games. If I am given a race choice, I will always go elf. In D&D I'm pretty much split between elves and drow (I wonder why in BG3 drow aren't an elven subrace, I blame Larian's tag system).

Anyway, let's just assume Astarion was 500 when he died, add 200 years he claims to have spent being Cazador's slave boy, that would make him at least 700 yr old, possibly older... But that line about PC's ancestor's learning to crawl is... interesting. I loaded a super early save and I got the same scenario to pop up... as a drow.

[Linked Image]


I don't think races are at all implemented in this line. I mean, there are a few things that raise my brow... but this one is kinda funny. Oh, that would make him older than Ao, if we are supposed to take this line seriously. LMAO

But in all seriousness, I think that Larian, just like Bioware, assumed people would play human (to later scorn the vault dweller Tav), so in that case it would make sense. Also Astarion's biting scene? Makes 0 sense for elven characters, since they don't sleep, they trance. Good luck sneaking up on an elf in trance to suck their blood... it could be possible, but eeeh. Oh another inconsistency in the lore: from the mods enabling origin characters as mains, you can see that Cazador is an elf (has extra long ears)... with a beard (IMPOSSIBRU). So unless he's some sort of https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fey%27ri (you might have to copy the link and paste it in your browser, for some reason the name fey'ri causes the link to break), what could explain his proficiency in infernal... but that gives me DOS2 Malady vibes, not gonna lie.

Oh and I did read that infernal to latin to english translation of Cazador's poem a while ago, heck, even my little theory on possible soul transfer is buried deep in the comment section of that reddit post. wink

Well, I'm not deluded into thinking that Astarion is an honorable paladin in shining armor. I know he's a master manipulator. And true, his voice acting being deliberate crossed my mind, altho, there has to be some seed of truth buried within. I mean, come full release first thing I'm gonna do is see the entire game through romancing Astarion, slaying Cazador (I wonder how that will play out really, if there is going to be a way to get Astarion a sip of his blood or will he remain an overpowered vamp spawn forever or will there be other solutions to his vampirism), gonna deny the tadpole and see if it can't be turned against itself. I am curious what type of ending is there in store for all of us, whatever paths we take. I really hope choices will have consequences.

Also, I wouldn't put much stock in Larian's old PR material, since er, retcons happen, plans change.


I think he means more like grandparents or the like,

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 143
member
OP Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by Linnea
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.




I am not expecting a potential redemption arc to suddenly turn him into a lawful good saint. Just a little less...murder-happy?

However in the end 'it is what it is' and I can hope for a good ending for Astarion and my PC, but if it ends in heartbreak I will be fine. (I romance Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition so I know all about that lol)



That's pretty much what I'm expecting/hoping for too. I find his comment on the exchange of lives during the tiefling party interesting. He finds joy in killing and doesn't seem to value any individual life above another (aside from his own.) I've thought about this philosophy a lot because, as good characters, we tend to decide one group of people has more of a right to live than another without giving much thought to the group that's deemed 'bad.' Astarion's approach is truly zero-sum which is fairly in line with a neutral evil character. Ofc, some of his actions are more chaotic evil. It makes sense that at the point we meet him, he values all life equally low since lives were completely disposable under Cazador. His joy in killing and the torture of others could stem from Stockholm syndrome as a survival mechanism, where seeing these things inflicted on others meant his own safety. Until we know more about what he was like before he was turned, it's possible that a lot of his interactions and approval ratings may stem from how he survived and maintained a degree of sanity through Cazador's abuse. I think he could be pulled more toward true neutral if he could gain an overall greater appreciation for life and if MC doesn't treat him as a monster. Basically, I think this guy really needs a friend lol

I'm really hoping they don't go with unavoidable tragedy. I wanted to romance Solas but never could because my heart just can't take it. I've had enough tragedy in my real life. I want my characters to have at least happyish endings.

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
I went throught the old Lords of the Darkness module and here are some notable finds/connections; more evidence for Astarion potentially being a greater vampire, or at least a lesser vampire, not a vampire spawn;
"A greater vampire had all the abilities of a lesser vampire and could also move about freely in daylight."
"During the hours of daylight, the greater vampire retained its superior strength and spell immunities, but could not use any of its special abilities such as life-drain, shape-shifting, or gaseous form."

Greater Vampire Abilities according to book:
"These creatures possess all the regular attack forms and abilities of lesser vampires." Here is a notable one:
"As is well known, vampires may project a powerful charm through their eyes. The charm certainly may be used against those of the same sex and lasts indefinitely. As an alternate usage, when the monster desires to remain inconspicious, a creature making eye contact with the vampire is subject to a suggestion spell." - suggestion spell according to 5e
"In addition, their gaze weapon also may be employed as a hold person spell.
'"Another talent they may employ is to summon minor demons to serve them for up to 24 hours. This only may be attempted during the hours of darkness, obviously,..."

DMing the Greater Vampires:
"Greater vampires are far more deadly than their lesser counterparts. In almost every case, the creature will adopt the persona of a normal citizen, frequently wealthy, and will do its utmost to keep its true nature a secret..."

- MC is being charmed by a lesser/greater vampire. Vampire spawn doesn't posses the ability to charm (according to 5e) - for reference https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire_spawn
- Astarion is deliberately hiding facts about himself and giving you half truths; I feel like his persona is cracking, if you start looking at dialogue options where you question him/taunt him, sometimes tease him. He loses his posture when he gets a question, that he doesn't expect. I believe that's when MC is getting the most accurate info.
- Astarion mentions we will figure out his other quirks, if you talk to him after the feeding - for reference. This makes me think he is already hiding something.
- There are some buggy scenes before he bites you, showing him sneaking off into the night. He might be practicing his (new) powers, not only hunting for snack.
- The summon demons made me chuckle a little, as it fits this hellish setting so well. Don't you think?
- The only weakness that we know of as, of right now, is the water, this might be something that is just not implemented during EA. If he starts being weak towards some other things that a vampire should, I think he potentially could have been greater vampire already before being abducted.
Maybe he still served Cazador, maybe Cazador wanted a vampire that could walk in the sunlight to do his dirty work. We only have Astarion's word that Cazador turned him. This might not be true.
What if Astarion was stuck in hell for a while instead? Maybe he boarded the nautiloid at some point in hopes to escape? Just like Karlach?
Cazador could have been the reason why he ended up in the hells and that's why he would want to kill him.
I also saw this comment on reddit some time ago, it could make sense, for this theory - for reference.

I believe vampires can still be good, but like Drow and goblins, they've got a strong tendency for evil.
I don't think this means that he would betray you no matter what, it's just a theory about his backstory.


@Nicottia;;
Thanks for your thoughts as always smile It's always good to stay a bit grounded. That dialogue indeed might just some fluke, but it did made me question him.


“There is only one thing we say to Death:
Not today.
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
@Vamathi Well, an entertaining theory, if it wasn't for the fact that the old source books and info about greater vampires have been heavily retconned. That's my main problem with our current D&D lore, it's been so heavily retonned on so many aspects that it's very hard to tell how stuff works sometimes.

For example - all vampires in BG2 seemed to be independent, so not really spawns, and on top of that at higher lvls 'greater vampires' were quite a common enemy in BG2. So we know that the way vampires work has been changed in 3e. BG1/2 = 2e. So I highly doubt Astarion is a greater vampire, like I said - if he was indeed mind controlling you, you wouldn't be able to kick him out of your camp entirely (after him trying to bite you). If he was a greater vampire, and you were dire charmed, it would be impossible to say no to him. So no, you've gone a bit off the deep end with your theory. Basically, you have an idea that he's more than he is and you are grasping at any straws to prove your theory. Look at it all logically with an open mind.

Is Astarion old? Yes.
Does it make sense for a 'greater vampire' to start off at lvl 1? No.
Does it make sense for a vampire spawn to start at lvl 1? Not really, but since he's supposed to be a much weaker version of a vampire, it's at least plausible.
Does it make sense for Astarion to start at lvl 1? Yes and no. If he spent all his 200 years of vampirism being an errand boy for Cazador and wasn't allowed a drop of human blood (could be elven etc) then sure.
Does it make sense for a vampire spawn to have access to dire charm at lvl 1? No.
Does Astarion lie about Cazador? No. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5U7cWMyz3I (most of your theories fall apart after watching this - considering it's from his point of view - basically he can't be serving Cazador while this is his reaction).
Is Astarion absolutely terrified of Cazador? Yes, for a good reason. We don't know the extent of Cazador's abuse. And Astarion isn't really forthcoming with information, not yet anyway.
Is being charming a part of Astarion's personality or is it due to his vampirism? I think it could be both.
Now does it make sense for Astarion to be a lvl 1 700 yr old elven vampire spawn? Why not? If he wasted his time in life seeking wealth (and according to some old PR material on him, it was implied that he was quite ruthless in life anyway) and partying, mingling in high societies, then why not? And the 200 years he spent being a slave, it's not like he would be allowed any personal growth.

That's the thing, your theory is all fun, but it's way too convoluted. I'd say - the resolution to it all is most likely going to be quite simple.

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
@Nicottia;;
BG3 is homebrew anyways. I don't see why they couldn't dig out something from a very old module, if WotC allows them.
Greater vampire is only mentioned in the old module. It's hard to say if it can be considered canon, but than again, we have level 4 Archdruids. Greater vampires would be definitely extremely rare - was created from the life-draining kiss of a succubus. Who knows how that could have happen. Honestly though BG1/BG3 have weird vampire setting so it's hard to compare how consistent they want to be with previous games...

As for the charm, for narrative purposes I think they could want to hide it from the player as much as possible in a way.

About the origin story - as I said in the thread as well, I believe he has been a slave to Cazador. The cinematic seems to be pretty set in ground so I think the scene won't change. I don't think Cazador lives in hells or something. His origin character story can disprove that Cazador had anything to do with that though, as it's clear he says that he would be jealous of him. His origin description might change with full-release. I can see Larian try to semi-hide it to not spoil a potential villain to your party...

I am just gonna say I've seen players being a much more powerful things out of nowhere, when the party caught up a little or pissed them off, in DnD games, this is pretty popular surprise to players in classic table top. And than there is a possibility that somehow as he went through Avernus he turned into a greater vampire from a lesser vampire. For narrative purposes this could be also hidden by the "DM" and he could have had an internal dialogue after playing him as origin character later on, explaining more... As I said, I expect there are some missing dialogues related to him, so there might as well be a scene like that in Act 1. They might just not want to reveal yet.

Well, at least it's fun! ^^ And yes, I do not like simple resolutions, I want and like plot twists laugh


“There is only one thing we say to Death:
Not today.
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
@Vamathi Yes, I also doubt that Cazador lives in hell or something, but I still wonder how come he's about the only elf with a beard. Which is where that theory of Fey'ri came from, afaik a fey'ri could still be turned into a vampire... I think (not sure how it could work though). It could also explain his long ears and beard (from his demonic parent perhaps?) and his proficiency in infernal, although, being a vampire he could've always studied languages for years, he has nothing but time on his side.

But again, if Astarion had dire charmed the PC, they wouldn't be able to kick him out of the group completely. If we were under dire charm, we wouldn't be able to betray him to that gur monster hunter (I always forget his name). So again, I don't think Astarion himself knows what's he's capable of with the tadpole in his head (I'm hoping he'll be able to turn into mist eventually). Which is why he's so adamant about finding a way to control it rather than getting rid of it, but I'm sure Larian will find a way for us to get rid of it and not lose our vamp boy, otherwise it's Ifan (DOS2) running off all over again. I don't think they want to rehash old writing mistakes again.

Speaking of crazy theories, I will share mine from reddit, from that infernal translation topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...and_analyzed_cazadors/g9q0q3v/?context=3

It's basically another overthought convoluted theory. wink

But yeah, I do like plot twists. It would be fun, if err, our female PCs, after having slept with him, would... result in this: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dhampyr . Again, it's a damn stretch, I know. It would be fun tho.

But a more possible plot twist I might have is that Astarion has actual family that's alive and unaware of his fate: him being a vampire spawn. Like you said - we know nothing about him, maybe he had a sibling, which had their own children, maybe he was a married and was a father? We don't know. But when it comes to possible theories and plot twists, I think this one is more likely than Astarion being a 'greater vampire' (he sorta is one as long as he has the tadpole in his head).

Last edited by Nicottia; 02/11/20 12:53 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 20
B
stranger
Offline
stranger
B
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 20
Nah, I think the beard and the sleeping elf were just mistakes from someone who didn't know those details about elves smile
Hopefully they will change it.
Astarion becoming a greater vampire would be interesting for his companion quest. Maybe greater vampire = have to do something evil and human = redemption.

Last edited by Bernkastel; 02/11/20 01:07 PM.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 362
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 362
Originally Posted by Nyloth
I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.


It does happen, Kotor 2 and Jade empire come to mind from the top of my head, I'm sure there was more.

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 190
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 190
Things are going to get very interesting re: Astarion when we reach Baldur's Gate. All the people who know him, but not about his vampire status, will be surprised to see him walking around during the day. Those who do know he's a vampire will be surprised and confused. Cazador is going to be surprised, confused, intrigued and possibly a little fearful - if Astarion can walk in sunlight, what else can he do now? And just how powerful are these new friends he's made? Should be lots of fun.

The two obvious outcomes of confronting his master are Astarion drinking his blood and becoming a true vampire (who might then be able to turn us) or just killing him and remaining a vampire spawn. As I said, I'm on board with the un-undead route, but I think it'll have to wait for the very end of the game if it happens at all.

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
I think I have just found a definite proof that Astarion lies here.
Basically the dev says that he gets invitation for the whole settlement. So again, this would mean that there is another weakness he still has, even though he is immune to sun.
I mean, as far as I know it also wasn't confirmed that we could create a vampire player character no? Only that Astarion is going to be unique. Wouldn't it be possible that he is unique, because for whatever reason he has the ability to walk in the sunlight and it's not the tadpole causing it?

This is from Larian's FAQ:
Origin Characters come with personal backstories, quests and motivations, and have unique ways of interacting with the world, whether you're playing as them or alongside them. If recruited as companions, their previous experiences and attitudes will influence their opinion about what you should do and how you should behave. Everything that you do or say might influence the course of your relationship with them, and determine whether you'll become friends, lovers, rivals, or bitter enemies.
I mean we already know that the other characters are hiding something from us as well. Please tell me it's not irrational to think, that a goddamn vampire, an evil creature, wouldn't be hiding something. For all we know Astarion might be able to control what we see.


@Nicottia;;

We can't even use the the illithid powers on Astarion. Ever. You can only persuade him. With any of the other companions, you can try and go deeper. Since our first encounter he will not show you any of his memories. It scares him right there and he will never open up his head again.
Here, there you have your proof of Charm. We can only detect his goddamn thoughts - for reference
The hunter scene, again is telling if he takes Astarion - we don't see how he takes him down - for reference.
There is dialogue and scene missing. If we tell the hunter where the location is, he will just disappear over night.

I really like your theory on the potential for the seal! At the moment it's related to his sun-walking in my head, maybe it was some sort of a ritual.

Last edited by Vamathi; 02/11/20 02:52 PM.

“There is only one thing we say to Death:
Not today.
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 361
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 361
Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by Nyloth
I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.


It does happen, Kotor 2 and Jade empire come to mind from the top of my head, I'm sure there was more.



SWTOR does too, but only on The Empire side base class stories. I'm seeing a pattern. BioWare abandonned the concept now thought. Good NPCs won't mind your evil PC that much and evil characters won't mind your goody-two-shoes PC, the clinching is just faction based. And it feels so weird to romance Lana in SWTOR on anything but a Sith/Imp (or Dark Sided Jedi) to me.

The option to "fix" the evil romanceable NPC is much more common and send the wrong message I think (you are manipulating people just so they love you).

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 6
L
stranger
Offline
stranger
L
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by azarhal

The option to "fix" the evil romanceable NPC is much more common and send the wrong message I think (you are manipulating people just so they love you).


Um, well, call me old fashioned but I dislike evil so I like to see characters change their evil ways even if it is in a small way, not like a massive conversion overnight.

Also, when I role play a PC they never go into a relationship/friendship expecting to change the companion. It just happens, or it doesn't and ends in heartbreak. I can't say that any game has actually given me the impression that the PC is actively trying to change anyone. They give advice/opinions based on how you role play them, but even the companions do that.

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by Vamathi
I think I have just found a definite proof that Astarion lies here.
Basically the dev says that he gets invitation for the whole settlement. So again, this would mean that there is another weakness he still has, even though he is immune to sun.
I mean, as far as I know it also wasn't confirmed that we could create a vampire player character no? Only that Astarion is going to be unique. Wouldn't it be possible that he is unique, because for whatever reason he has the ability to walk in the sunlight and it's not the tadpole causing it?

This is from Larian's FAQ:
Origin Characters come with personal backstories, quests and motivations, and have unique ways of interacting with the world, whether you're playing as them or alongside them. If recruited as companions, their previous experiences and attitudes will influence their opinion about what you should do and how you should behave. Everything that you do or say might influence the course of your relationship with them, and determine whether you'll become friends, lovers, rivals, or bitter enemies.
I mean we already know that the other characters are hiding something from us as well. Please tell me it's not irrational to think, that a goddamn vampire, an evil creature, wouldn't be hiding something. For all we know Astarion might be able to control what we see.


Whenever you talk with Astarion after the feeding night, there is a line where he suspects it's the tadpole causing his ability to daywalk. He even says, he should be incinerated in broad daylight and it's been the first time he's seen the sun and felt it's rays, that something (the Absolute) wants him alive (for the same reason Shadowheart was told she was going to become a 'beautiful weapon'). From all the footage as Astarion it's also confirmed. it's not a lie. You are again jumping through hoops to find anything that could possibly confirm your flawed theory. And when you enter Ethel's hut, you can talk to Astarion about his ability to walk into homes uninvited. Also, whatever devs said about being invited into settlements. Whatever works, again, you are overthinking and over-analyzing anything and everything said by Astarion, you are trying to, in a way, misconstrue anything he says as a 'deception' or a 'lie'.

Again, I re-illiterate Astarion is not even aware of his own capabilities with the tadpole in his head. What would further mean that a lot of weaknesses native to vampires will be gone. In very essence, when he says he might be the most powerful vampire in existence, he's not lying. Speaking of vampire PCs, they've been confirmed actually. How they'll be implemented, nobody knows. It's a possibility that during the story, we might get a chance to be turned (by Astarion or Cazador is my bet) or maybe we'll be able to create one from the get go. From what I've come across, Larian is still developing the best way to solve this. So who knows, maybe that idea won't be finished and the only way for us to become a vampire is to be turned by one.

But overall, I think you are just stuck thinking that Astarion is this amazingly overpowered vampire that tries to hide his power from us. No, honey, just no. All companions have secrets, some of them take longer to uncover than others - and for example, in Astarion's case, I do think the way he was turned was hella suspicious, that Cazador just happened by. I do believe Cazador targeted him for a reason. You even have a way of saying so to Astarion after that gur encounter.

Originally Posted by Vamathi
@Nicottia;;

We can't even use the the illithid powers on Astarion. Ever. You can only persuade him. With any of the other companions, you can try and go deeper. Since our first encounter he will not show you any of his memories. It scares him right there and he will never open up his head again.
Here, there you have your proof of Charm. We can only detect his goddamn thoughts - for reference
The hunter scene, again is telling if he takes Astarion - we don't see how he takes him down - for reference.
There is dialogue and scene missing. If we tell the hunter where the location is, he will just disappear over night.

I really like your theory on the potential for the seal! At the moment it's related to his sun-walking in my head, maybe it was some sort of a ritual.


Not this again, it's not a proof he charmed us... And yes, I've seen the detect thoughts vid many times, it's just too bad it's not implemented yet in the EA (that person even says he/she used mods to enable console commands and edited tags). It's been confirmed already that we'll be able to use charm person, detect thoughts, friends and all the other spells of that manner in dialogue too. They aren't implemented in the EA as of yet. Also, you can't use illithid powers on Gale either and it doesn't prove a damn thing, you don't even mind-meld with him when you meet, by your logic, that would mean that Gale is the demogorgon or something. And there is obviously a lot of content/cutscenes missing, like one with that gur monster hunter if you choose to betray Astarion.

Again, it's fun to speculate and theorize, but please, don't go on believing your own theories about Astarion so much. Everything points to you getting hella disappointed come release when most of them will turn out to be pure gibberish, just like that theory of mine about the meaning of that poem. It's most likely bullshit. laugh

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
@Nicottia;;
Gale might be a demogorgon, who knows. I haven't looked into him that much yet laugh

I am not going to be disappointed. I love the way it's set-up, because this makes me question Astarion. In a usual DnD party, set in Forgotten Realms world a vampire player character doesn't make much sense.
For a good character especially good cleric, once you know someone is a vampire you would likely want to get rid of them. And you can. They are evil by nature.

Somehow, Astarion is a sun-walker and if the dev interview is correct, he does lie. We can speculate whether it's correct or not, but it's some proof. You can't just dismiss it. If the video isn't enough - there is an article about it as well - here.

What if the demo, dream and other things that make Astarion's story about Cazador correct or true for you, is the exact reason they did the demo with Astarion, which wasn't completely from his POV? As you said, things change and this could have been exactly there, to help them sell this broken vampire guy that just want to get his revenge. He is acting like someone who is wounded. But that's what I think it is. Acting.
I've been around game development, this could be exactly what they are doing with it.
And I might be completely wrong. But no, I will not be disappointed. I really really like Astarion's character and how he behaves. The question is, if a vampire can really be genuine, or if this a plot that will completely change how we viewed the character, up until we played it or reached the conclussion with our own player character.

Anyways, whenever my crazy theories come true, even just parts of them I am very excited. My brain power can be used for more useful things later. This sparks joy right now and at least I am getting lots of lore info from wikis and handbooks laugh I am even getting some inspiration for my own DnD campaign.

This place is to discuss theories after all ^^


Last edited by Vamathi; 02/11/20 04:27 PM.

“There is only one thing we say to Death:
Not today.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 190
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by Nicottia
In very essence, when he says he might be the most powerful vampire in existence, he's not lying.


He's exaggerating quite a bit, though; as far as 5e vampire spawn go, Astarion is kind of a wimp. No regeneration, no damage resistance, no spider climb, no claw attack, his bite doesn't have the extra necrotic damage, and if I'm reading the entry right, he's missing a natural armor bonus. Walking in sunlight and entering houses is probably great fun for him, but he's lost a lot of power. Of course, he also seems to be free from Cazador's control, which I'm sure he thinks is worth the nerf.

It's interesting that healing spells work on him. Maybe that's just not implemented yet, though.

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
Originally Posted by Nicottia
In very essence, when he says he might be the most powerful vampire in existence, he's not lying.


He's exaggerating quite a bit, though; as far as 5e vampire spawn go, Astarion is kind of a wimp. No regeneration, no damage resistance, no spider climb, no claw attack, his bite doesn't have the extra necrotic damage, and if I'm reading the entry right, he's missing a natural armor bonus. Walking in sunlight and entering houses is probably great fun for him, but he's lost a lot of power. Of course, he also seems to be free from Cazador's control, which I'm sure he thinks is worth the nerf.

It's interesting that healing spells work on him. Maybe that's just not implemented yet, though.


True, but I believe he's been heavily nerfed for the sole reason: if he retained all his vamp spawn powers, maybe even progressed further into full blown vampire, he'd be easily the most overpowered of companions. Something along the lines of Sarevok in BG2. Those random one shots (well, not really one shots, but his deathbringer assault had 10% chance to deal 200 dmg, so, pretty much a one shot). Basically, Astarion would fill in all the roles - tank (high AC + health regen), damage (necrotic bite + rogue sneak attacks) and a spell caster (if you pick arcane trickster subclass), sure, he's not as good of a caster as full blown wizard or warlock, but who cares when he's one man invincible army? wink

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 190
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 190
True, they had to keep him in line with his fellow victims of the nerf bat - the ex-Chosen of Mystra, the not-so-legendary monster hunter, etc. - but in the process they've almost turned being a vampire into something cosmetic, which is... odd. If we do get a chance to make our PCs vampires eventually, will it be mostly a roleplay thing? If Astarion gets upgraded to "true vampire," will he just get another [tag] added to his list and nothing else?

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 97
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by Nicottia


True, but I believe he's been heavily nerfed for the sole reason: if he retained all his vamp spawn powers, maybe even progressed further into full blown vampire, he'd be easily the most overpowered of companions. Something along the lines of Sarevok in BG2. Those random one shots (well, not really one shots, but his deathbringer assault had 10% chance to deal 200 dmg, so, pretty much a one shot). Basically, Astarion would fill in all the roles - tank (high AC + health regen), damage (necrotic bite + rogue sneak attacks) and a spell caster (if you pick arcane trickster subclass), sure, he's not as good of a caster as full blown wizard or warlock, but who cares when he's one man invincible army? wink



Sarevok's Deathbringer assault actually had 3% change to kick in for 200 dmg, and 10% chance to stun the target, but for some reason for me at least it always felt more frequent. Probably because of his crazy stats or maybe because I always gave him boots of speed and a vorpal sword at the start so if it wasn't one effect it was another.

Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
True, they had to keep him in line with his fellow victims of the nerf bat - the ex-Chosen of Mystra, the not-so-legendary monster hunter, etc. - but in the process they've almost turned being a vampire into something cosmetic, which is... odd. If we do get a chance to make our PCs vampires eventually, will it be mostly a roleplay thing? If Astarion gets upgraded to "true vampire," will he just get another [tag] added to his list and nothing else?


To be honest I'm hoping Gale is not Chosen of Mystra or ex-Chosen... that kind of goes against established lore and he should be way more powerful than he is. As for Astarion I don't know if I want him to be a full-blown vampire who will be damaged by healing spells. I like Divinity Original Sin 2 a lot, and similarities are good, but that would be way too much like Fane.


There are three things that are strength incarnate: there is love of life, there is fear of death, and there is family. A family that loves death would have a strong pull indeed.
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 85
@Arideya;;
I think the main reason why I even started thinking about crazy theories for Astarion and Shadowheart, was that Gale's backstory from what we have, already sounds quite epic.
If Astarion's backstory turns out true, as he says it, I will probably cry a little for ever doubting him :|
We will just to wait and see I guess... but I really wonder how powerful can he become, going full evil!
And I also want to know, if there might some different resolutions to the romance specifically, based on the path you'd choose and class.

I wonder if tieflings will be more likely to figure out what's up with Astarion's back. I wonder if he possibly stayed in hells for a while, like Jander Sunstar and somehow escaped? I don't think we will have an accurate translation before release, but I like to entertain the idea, that he was bound to hells for some reason. He is scared of Cambion, corrects you if you don't pronounce Gale's resurrection ignan properly which I also find odd, but I guess maybe he could learn something from Cazador if he is versed in infernal...
This thing that Swen Vincke said about Astarion keeps haunting me; when we see it we will be like: 'Oh fuck!'"
I am fully prepared to get back stabbed laugh

Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
True, they had to keep him in line with his fellow victims of the nerf bat - the ex-Chosen of Mystra, the not-so-legendary monster hunter, etc. - but in the process they've almost turned being a vampire into something cosmetic, which is... odd. If we do get a chance to make our PCs vampires eventually, will it be mostly a roleplay thing? If Astarion gets upgraded to "true vampire," will he just get another [tag] added to his list and nothing else?

As long as we can do become vampires later, I am good. I don't know how they would want to implement a vampire spawn PC from the beginning story-wise...

Last edited by Vamathi; 03/11/20 07:11 PM.

“There is only one thing we say to Death:
Not today.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 352
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 352
Originally Posted by Vamathi
@Arideya;;
I think the main reason why I even started thinking about crazy theories for Astarion and Shadowheart, was that Gale's backstory from what we have, already sounds quite epic.
If Astarion's backstory turns out true, as he says it, I will probably cry a little for ever doubting him :|
We will just to wait and see I guess... but I really wonder how powerful can he become, going full evil!
And I also want to know, if there might some different resolutions to the romance specifically, based on the path you'd choose and class.

I wonder if tieflings will be more likely to figure out what's up with Astarion's back. I wonder if he possibly stayed in hells for a while, like Jander Sunstar and somehow escaped? I don't think we will have an accurate translation before release, but I like to entertain the idea, that he was bound to hells for some reason. He is scared of Cambion, corrects you if you don't pronounce Gale's resurrection ignan properly which I also find odd, but I guess maybe he could learn something from Cazador if he is versed in infernal...
This thing that Swen Vincke said about Astarion keeps haunting me; when we see it we will be like: 'Oh fuck!'"
I am fully prepared to get back stabbed laugh


Honestly, with the amount of shady companions, each (well, except for Wyll) can 'backstab' us at some point. I remember Ignus...

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5