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I agree op the stacked against us fights in this game is why i've stopped playing for now, the Phase spiders were my last straw tbh.. just insanity and broken beyond belief.
Originally Posted by Takolin
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Steamrolling or not having a challenge at all isn't fun for others either. I did 2 playthroughs of EA and while there were some difficult fights (which I enjoyed) none of them were impossible at the level I attempted them.

If you attempt the fight at a level where you are too low, it should be hard or even impossible without cheese but that doesn't mean it's bad game design. If they balance all fights in EA for a party of level 3 characters, I would be bored because the game showers you with XP. A fight with level 5 oppenents shouldn't be attempted with a party of level 3s.


Disagree, i'm here for fun and a story, not to have my ass handed to me every battle.

Last edited by DanteYoda; 03/11/20 06:23 AM.
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Originally Posted by DanteYoda


Disagree, i'm here for fun and a story, not to have my ass handed to me every battle.


Well lets hope for multiple difficulty options then, rather than just 1 when the game gets its final release.

But as I said before, I only encountered a few difficult battles, most of them were easy enough and I don't cheese nor do I abuse rest.

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To be fair good difficulty design helps immersion in the story - i expect a small goblin camp to be obliterated by my wizard and a long tough fight against a Dragon - it makes sense.

But currently the problem with difficulty is that it makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Kokonut
Hi there
I really enjoy this game so far, there is only one thing that I don't like:

Since when we met, Laezel keeps telling me how important it is to find her friends which are the only ones who can help us getting rid of the tadpole. So I did my best, try to ignore all the other weird stuff going on and head on to the place where the Githyanki patrol was.
I thought that since I got one of them with me, they should have some trust in me and at least do not try to kill me immediately. However, I was wrong. Suddenly about 5 heavy armed Githyanki warriors attacked me, all level 5. There was no chance in the fight, it was a massacre (my party was level 3, me (Ranger), Laezel, Shadowheart and Gale. So I reloaded and tried other dialog options, but all of them lead to the green skinned guys attacking me and a total party kill.

This is no fun. There were absolutly no signs that this will happen, and that those guys are so strong. Of course the fight IS somehow winnable, either you have A LOT of luck or you use some cheese mechanics, but it kill immersion and I always feel bad when I start cheesing.
I had to load an earlier save and start to go to the Goblin camp, which I didn't want to and does not fit the personality of my character (he's a bounty hunter who always searches for the easiest, fastest solution of things, and due to laezel who seems trustworthy the Githyanki way is the best to get rid of the brain worms).

Stuff like this forces me to play the game not like I want, but like the game wants to be played.

I hope this will change after EA. Just give some more hints that those Gith will not be that nice as expected and rescuing the druid may even be the easier way to go.

English is not my native language so sorry for some mistakes in the writing.







if you end up fighting them you did the wrong choice in the conversation and/or failed your roll check.
maybe you did not notice but Lae does not want to fight the dragon rider
nor should you. "Story wise". I mean gosh they have a red dragon you are lvl 2-4. you should talk your way out , or die. imo the fight should be impossible. like in, you die it was a trap, in like, GAME OVER, like that FFist patrol. the only way out is with your tongue :P

reach the spot again, but then save your game, cast guidance on lae, and go try those persuasion and deception rolls. and reveal the truth about the gith patrol.

playing as a gith and/or having the artefact on you while doing the talking, also brings up interesting conversation twists

Last edited by Evil_it_Self; 04/11/20 08:13 PM.

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Yes it is one of the harder fights. And that shouldn't have been a surprise. In addition to all the story elements you have to go past some tough Gnoll areas to get there and its at the far edge of the map.

There are multiple ways to resolve the encounter peacefully. And if you blunder into it and get killed . . . then try the peaceful solution or leave and come back later. I really don't see the problem. And the dialogue checks are not hard (especially when you buff Lae'zel . . . always buff characters before checks!)

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The thing about these very rule-heavy, highly tactical RPGs is that there is a very wide range of possible perceived difficulty, even on a single difficulty setting. I've watched a bunch of people play this who know nothing of D&D, and are not used to playing turn-based, party-based RPGs like this, and they really struggle a lot. Often they say that the game is too hard, or ask "How can I possibly beat this?" Then you have people who have tons of experience with D&D and this type of CRPG, and some of those people say, quite honestly, that everything in the game was easy for them. It's a very tricky kind of game to balance across these highly variant audiences. Fortunately, we know Larian will be giving us multiple difficulty settings to choose from, hopefully sooner rather than later. So that should alleviate most of this problem, I think.

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Originally Posted by trengilly
Yes it is one of the harder fights. And that shouldn't have been a surprise. In addition to all the story elements you have to go past some tough Gnoll areas to get there and its at the far edge of the map.

There are multiple ways to resolve the encounter peacefully. And if you blunder into it and get killed . . . then try the peaceful solution or leave and come back later. I really don't see the problem. And the dialogue checks are not hard (especially when you buff Lae'zel . . . always buff characters before checks!)


The problem is that blundering into it makes more RP sense than going in prepared. Going in prepared and prepositioned makes the fight quite winnable, but if I think I'm actually going to get into a fight with that many githyanki and a freakin' red dragon, I'm not going down there at all.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
The thing about these very rule-heavy, highly tactical RPGs is that there is a very wide range of possible perceived difficulty, even on a single difficulty setting. I've watched a bunch of people play this who know nothing of D&D, and are not used to playing turn-based, party-based RPGs like this, and they really struggle a lot. Often they say that the game is too hard, or ask "How can I possibly beat this?" Then you have people who have tons of experience with D&D and this type of CRPG, and some of those people say, quite honestly, that everything in the game was easy for them. It's a very tricky kind of game to balance across these highly variant audiences. Fortunately, we know Larian will be giving us multiple difficulty settings to choose from, hopefully sooner rather than later. So that should alleviate most of this problem, I think.


Every studio should introduce a title as though to someone who is playing a video game for the first time. One never knows which game will be someone's introduction to the medium or genre. Tutorials are passe sadly, but the first Baldur's Gate offered a very welcoming introduction in Candlekeep, the only point of quests like finding the lost book, fetching the watchman's sword, or getting an antidote for the sick cow were to give the player familiarity with the environment and the types of objects they could interact with, from opening chests to books, from buying things like arrows for the soldier, to spells for the traveling mage. The initial combat clearing the cellar rats or leading a squad to victory against illusions equipped those whom had never heard of Dungeons and Dragons before with everything they needed to confidently continue into a mostly unforgiving game where one could be killed instantly by some enemies before combat had even properly started, or turned to stone for getting too close.

I am really hopeful Larian will launch the final game with a brief tutorial like scenario set in Baldur's Gate set prior to the abduction which will go over these elements and ad some much needed depth to player made characters

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I assume there will be much better tutorializing in the final game.

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Originally Posted by DanteYoda
I agree op the stacked against us fights in this game is why i've stopped playing for now, the Phase spiders were my last straw tbh.. just insanity and broken beyond belief.
Originally Posted by Takolin
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Steamrolling or not having a challenge at all isn't fun for others either. I did 2 playthroughs of EA and while there were some difficult fights (which I enjoyed) none of them were impossible at the level I attempted them.

If you attempt the fight at a level where you are too low, it should be hard or even impossible without cheese but that doesn't mean it's bad game design. If they balance all fights in EA for a party of level 3 characters, I would be bored because the game showers you with XP. A fight with level 5 oppenents shouldn't be attempted with a party of level 3s.


Disagree, i'm here for fun and a story, not to have my ass handed to me every battle.


Probably there will be a "Story Mode" difficulty when the game releases, you will be fine.

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Originally Posted by Cyka
To be fair good difficulty design helps immersion in the story - i expect a small goblin camp to be obliterated by my wizard and a long tough fight against a Dragon - it makes sense.

But currently the problem with difficulty is that it makes no sense.


Not your PARTY... your WIZARD.... is this why a bunch of people is crying rivers of bloody tears because they want wizards to get better spells, opponents to have less hp and martials to be worse?

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The fight is winnable even if you don't know you are about to have it (no positioning or stealth).
It is hard tho, really hard. I beat it the first time but with 2 dead characters and all my resources depleted.

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Indeed almost all fights are winnable ig you are willing to embrace the cheese/strategy elements. Always get highground, always use stealth always knock things down holes, (especially big critters like the spider matriarch), summon the ogres if it gets too bad.

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For the folks that are giving feedback to the OP regarding varied tactics, scouting, coming back later, gaining high ground, etc. - kudos. It's meant to be a difficult encounter and preparation goes a long way.

That said: to the folks saying "hey, they're Gith" or "there's a red dragon, what do you expect?!" - you're not contributing to the conversation in the slightest. You're relying on familiarity on out-of-character knowledge in the form of externally published source material to guide you through a dangerous encounter. If I were a DM, there would be penalties.

If the discussion genesis were so blatantly obvious, I sincerely doubt there would be posts about it; who makes good-faith complaints about the sky being blue or water being wet? If it were so clear, it wouldn't be raised. Knocking players on those points is not disagreement over opinions on whether the fight should be hard, it presumes everyone starts from the same place, which isn't what gaming or DnD are even about.

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N.b - it is likely that the caps will be removed entirely after EA. I'd fully expect this to be the Alice Alicseon or Djinn fight of the area within BG3. Early Access has different caps for varying reasons (one might be to see how folks approach above-level encounters), so wouldn't presume this is final state smile

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Personally, I do hope that after more of the game becomes available to play, that some of these earlier (and entirely too diffcult) encounters get balanced downwards. The Githyanki patrol is not the only instance where you get slaughtered by foes that are too overpowered for when you naturally run into them just playing through the story.

If Larian wants me to sneak my way through the game, always scouting ahead to only then just blow everyone up, fine. But triple the amount of oil barrels available and replace all of the random food that one typically finds all over the map with healing potions and scrolls of revival.

In Dragon Age: Origins there was really tough high dragon fight fairly early in the game (the quest with the cultists) where that beast could pretty much wipe out your party in short order, but often due to the amount of healing elixirs and dog bones that I had amassed by that point, I never had any problems killing it on hard settings by keeping myself (as any class) alive with healing potions and using my Dog as a tank by continuously feeding him bones. It would take a while, but very doable. This game needs a bit of that kind of love!

Last edited by Capt.Wells; 25/12/20 05:02 PM.

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With an increased party size, most very hard combats would be more managable (and combats VS trash will still be combats VS trash... It's just gonna be faster).

The combats against Gythianky is hard because they have an OP mobility and because they nearly all focus characters that are upon the door.

This is a very strange (and unpleasant according to me) demonstration of combats in BG3.
Easy Highground advantage + OP mobility, useless melee characters, AI's target choices,...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 25/12/20 05:25 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tulkash01
Ahem... did you notice that Lae'zel is actually an evil zealot and when she talks about "purification" everyone feels unconfortable? She also knows less than she think she does and assumes things that are not actually true. As for your "problem", in RPGs some areas/encounters are more difficult than others and you should not expect to be able to win every fight because you just want to do so. The fight with the Gityanki is quite challenging if you try to take them when you are level 2 (not impossible if you know how to place yourself and how to use explosives). It becomes quite easy when you get to level 4.

Suggesting the game should scale down difficulty of encounters based on what you want to do, so you have an easy time suceeding (because that's fun in your opinion) is just not what this game needs imo.

The game doesn't need to scale down the difficulty of encounters, but it shouldn't be trying to railroad you into a fight like that. A lot of this game is "easy" if you cheese things, like explosive stacking, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a flaw in the presentation of story for you to get pressured into this Gith fight which will destroy you if you're not already prepared for it. Seriously, the way it's presented, most people are strongly encouraged to listen to Lae'zel. She's featured prominently on the artwork, she's the only other character you cooperate with on the Nautiloid, she's knowledgeable about this problem you all have and she's constantly hounding you to go find the creche. Then other companions even back her up at some points, saying things like you can't afford to not try it or you've exhausted other options, etc., you just get so much pressure to go find this Gith patrol it practically railroads you into it and it does so early.

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The fight was one of the last ones in my play through. I was lv4 and walked in there as a group. I had to fight and I won without cheese. Only Gale went down twice, enemies really like him.
Enemies like to go up, just cast or attack, then shove them down. If they survive they will come up again so you can repeat. Enemies are dumb. The invisible guy did not do AoO or special attacks, another one cast silence, I just walk out of it and cast.
The fight is fine and it is absolutely possible to win without cheese.

There are many warnings that this can get hard, like the scout on the bridge, the red dragon and how they deal with the flaming fist.
The game is fine and it is good to have some more difficult encounters sometimes. Plus this fight is totally optional, you do not need to kill them to get to the next chapter.
But you get very useful stuff from them.


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Originally Posted by Madscientist
The fight was one of the last ones in my play through. I was lv4 and walked in there as a group. I had to fight and I won without cheese. Only Gale went down twice, enemies really like him.
Enemies like to go up, just cast or attack, then shove them down. If they survive they will come up again so you can repeat. Enemies are dumb. The invisible guy did not do AoO or special attacks, another one cast silence, I just walk out of it and cast.
The fight is fine and it is absolutely possible to win without cheese.

There are many warnings that this can get hard, like the scout on the bridge, the red dragon and how they deal with the flaming fist.
The game is fine and it is good to have some more difficult encounters sometimes. Plus this fight is totally optional, you do not need to kill them to get to the next chapter.
But you get very useful stuff from them.

I think you ignored the actual problem as stated, which is the game is set up to strongly encourage you to do this fight before you'd be ready. They need to either have Lae'zel back off a bit with this shit or have her come in after you get more chances to level.

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