Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2020
A
AlanC9 Offline OP
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
A
Joined: Oct 2020
A lot of us are going to hit this at level three, and likely blunder into combat. Like a lot of combats, this one is doable if you prepare beforehand (snipers on the high ground, etc.), and very hard if you don't.

Thing is, preparing for combat against them doesn't make a heck of a lot of RP sense. Trusting Lae'zel aside, we don't have any way of knowing that the dragon and its rider are going to run away at the start of the fight. With them still around for the fight, we're toast. Literally.

What's the player expected to do here, besides save and reload?

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Win the fight.

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
A lot (and I mean a lot) of signs point to fighting them being a dangerous thing, including the fact that they have a red dragon. What reason do you have to be over by that bridge at the level you're at? There's literally nothing over there other than the creche as far as the game has told you. So you had to expect to run into some gith, and you know the gith are dangerous. The game signals as obviously that it can that you probably shouldn't expect to make friends, and Lae'zel gets treated like shit if you bring her along, too.

In any case there's a tiefling on the high ground that warns you about fighting them as well, so if you want to "logic" your way into setting that fight up I don't see why you couldn't say your backline decided to hang out up top where she was scouting in case something goes awry. I think that fight is ridiculously hard (it feels like a "your team but better" situation), but the player can make all manner of stupid decisions. You can aggro the entire goblin camp by deciding to kill the goblin that told you to kiss his feet. I've done it (and had to reload, lol). You can jump down a dark hole without feather fall and just die. Not having Lae'zel there, assuming you kept her, really makes encountering them a case of morbid curiosity, which is fine if you're out here scouring every corner of the map, but then "RP sense" is kind of out the window.

Joined: Oct 2020
E
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
E
Joined: Oct 2020
you can totally get what you what from this conversation, if lae succeeded her dice roll.
and never fight them.

Last edited by Evil_it_Self; 02/11/20 07:58 PM.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Evil_it_Self
you can totally get what you what from this conversation, if lae succeeded her dice roll.
and never fight them.


Which is extremely difficult to manage since Lae'zel isn't exactly the type for social interactions... and having Shadowheart cast Guidance on her seems just wrong, given how much they like eachother wink

Joined: Oct 2020
R
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
R
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Kendaric
Originally Posted by Evil_it_Self
you can totally get what you what from this conversation, if lae succeeded her dice roll.
and never fight them.


Which is extremely difficult to manage since Lae'zel isn't exactly the type for social interactions... and having Shadowheart cast Guidance on her seems just wrong, given how much they like eachother wink


Shadowheart is likely to survive, especially if the alternative is losing her head

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Pretty much every NPC you speak to on your way to the Githyanki tell you the Githyanki are violent sadists. Even Lae'zel. While I can see the argument that you trust Lae'zel to handle the diplomacy it isn't completely out of left field that these Githyanki, who have been killing innocent people around the coast according to Zorru, might be violent and that you should plan for a fight if things go south.

It is also obvious from a lore perspective. Githyanki have a "kill on sight" rule about mind flayers and their tadpoles. This is only complicated by Lae'zel insisting they have a cure that almost definitely doesn't exist. In fact if you talk to her as a Githyanki your character says they have never heard of this protocol.

At the same time though new players won't necessarily know the lore well enough to know the Githyanki reputation. I do think adding a few more obvious hints that you're walking into a tense situation could be set up. Maybe have Lae'zel be a little more obviously unsure of herself, since most players are going by what she says for their understanding of the Gith. Maybe have Shadowheart, the NPC who hates Gith, provide a strong and clear counter-example of what the Gith are like. If you have both at camp have her chime into your dialogue time with Lae'zel doubting her and making snide comments about how violent Githyanki are, which Lae'zel then reinforces because she as a Gith sees being blood thirsty and remorseless as GOOD things.

I think that'd go a long way to making sure the PC knows there's a very high chance of a fight and to plan accordingly.

Joined: Jul 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
On a side note, I absolutely love the contempt the dragon knight displays toward Lae'Zel when they speak.
Great line delivery there.

"Sh-sh. Such a familiar tone. Were I not merciful I would... - ...Yet you are not bleeding, for I am nothing but merciful".

Last edited by Tuco; 02/11/20 10:21 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Joined: Mar 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
I don't know what says "danger" more than a red dragon


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
There's huge precedent in many RPGs, going all the way back to the 80s, of having some (or most) encounters that you are just expected to die at, the first time. It's a pretty classic tradition of game design. Especially "off the critical path" encounters that are technically skippable. Almost every RPG I can think of that wasn't a total cakewalk had some encounters like this. You run into it unprepared, you get smashed, then you either come back later or you plan some new tactics in order to beat it.

In my opinion, this is good. Because the alternative to this is a game in which you just win every encounter on the first try, even without being prepared or knowing what you're doing. And in that scenario, nothing in the world feels dangerous.

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
You can get to a lot of content that you shouldn't before level 4. A good Idea would be to back off and come back to it later. Even if you do not get the memo that Gith kill on site from the various npcs telling you so, just moments before you go to speak to them they kill a bunch of people on the bridge.

I mean, fights have started in rpgs with a lot less than that.


Verily it is written that the Omnissiah grants his blessing to those who come well-equipped with explosives. -Aphorisms 96.9
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by AlanC9
A lot of us are going to hit this at level three, and likely blunder into combat. Like a lot of combats, this one is doable if you prepare beforehand (snipers on the high ground, etc.), and very hard if you don't.

Thing is, preparing for combat against them doesn't make a heck of a lot of RP sense. Trusting Lae'zel aside, we don't have any way of knowing that the dragon and its rider are going to run away at the start of the fight. With them still around for the fight, we're toast. Literally.

What's the player expected to do here, besides save and reload?



Currently the game crashes if you try to organise your party before starting the engagement. I tried to do that, and my game crashed because it spawns everyone in the cutscene :X.

You can win this fight with how it is OP, you can reload the save before the fight to get your party at the start of the turn line, and then you can run everyone up to high ground up.

Joined: Mar 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
push everyone away.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
L
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
L
Joined: Oct 2020
At lvl 4 it's doable, ugly but doable. Hehe.

Joined: Oct 2020
N
member
Offline
member
N
Joined: Oct 2020
I mean you are trusting a brutal, cagy, alien, and chasing after a lead about another alien that cut someone down....

Joined: Oct 2020
E
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
E
Joined: Oct 2020
if lae succeed at her deception check during the conversation, there is no fight. and you uncover some truth about the dragon rider. and the gith patrol leave. not saying more smile

ya gota dig it thoo, the "conversation" smile

there is 3 outcome possible with the gith patrol(lae quest.). the wiki only talk about 1 (the killing one)

btw it's possible to reach the mountain pass without a single fight. or even going at the camp.

she don't want to fight them either.

Last edited by Evil_it_Self; 03/11/20 02:19 AM.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by AlanC9
Thing is, preparing for combat against them doesn't make a heck of a lot of RP sense. Trusting Lae'zel aside, we don't have any way of knowing that the dragon and its rider are going to run away at the start of the fight. With them still around for the fight, we're toast. Literally.

On the contrary ... its makes perfect sence, you send up your emissary (protagonist, and Lae'zel preferably), yet you prepare backup if something went wrong ... or you dont, and then suffer the consequences. laugh
Yes, i know there is a big dragon ... wich seem to me like just another reason to prepare backup.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Oct 2020
A
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
A
Joined: Oct 2020
I personally love that there are encounters you are too low level for, but can attempt.
Too many games these days has this hand holding aspect, where the enemies level with you, and that combat should always be winnable etc.

We are playing the game at the medium difficulty right now. And the game isn't all that difficult, but some fights are tricky. Which is a decent place for a medium game to be. So yeah, if you struggle you can load the game, go explore other paths, and come back later. That's how we used to play RPGs back in the day.

Joined: Nov 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Nov 2020




Guthyanki patroll is a tough surprise yeah

Last edited by Restingwicked; 04/11/20 03:05 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
A
AlanC9 Offline OP
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
A
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by AlanC9
Thing is, preparing for combat against them doesn't make a heck of a lot of RP sense. Trusting Lae'zel aside, we don't have any way of knowing that the dragon and its rider are going to run away at the start of the fight. With them still around for the fight, we're toast. Literally.

On the contrary ... its makes perfect sence, you send up your emissary (protagonist, and Lae'zel preferably), yet you prepare backup if something went wrong ... or you dont, and then suffer the consequences. laugh
Yes, i know there is a big dragon ... wich seem to me like just another reason to prepare backup.



My point was that preparing doesn't make sense because preparing won't help if we actually end up fighting what I'd expect to be fighting. If the dragon and rider don't run away we'd just lose, and I don't have any reason to expect them to run away.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5