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Joined: Jun 2018
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Hello guys!

I would like to give very long feedback on my experience with EA, in particular playing an evil-playthrough since the devs requested it and because I love evil playthroughs. Sadly there are very few games with worthwhile evil playthroughs.

But first of all, lets start with general gameplay feedback. Obviously spoilers below.

[EXP GAIN]

This has to be adjusted. Currently, you gain very little exp from solving encounters via dialogue as opposed to combat. Very early in the game, next to the cathedral dungeon, you can skip a combat encounter via dialogue and get like 10 exp for it. However every enemy is worth about 10-25 exp.
A simple solution: If you have the option to solve a combat encounter via dialogue, grant the player the same amount of exp per potential enemy, as if you had solved the encounter via combat. You spend no ressources like spell slots or potions since you have no combat, but you also do not get any loot from enemies. In my opinion, some specific encounters should reward you loot even if you solve the situation via dialogue, for example if you have to make a difficult skill check.

[Long rests and short rests]

Let's get straight to the point. Short rests are obsolete. Because you can long rest almost anywhere in the game, at any time, with (as far as I know) no consequences. Spellcasting characters have all spells slots available for every encounter because of this.

The amount of long rests need to be massively reduced. Aswell as the areas in which a player can long rest. It makes no sense to long rest while in the first dungeon and teleport to camp, even though you are inside a dark catacomb. Resting in the Underdark should make your camp look like its placed in the underdark.

Long rests need to be limited. Maybe by giving the player an item that is consumed upon taking a long rest. And these items are spread around the game world in such a way that the player can rest whenever they visit a new town or save place.

Long rests need to progress the story and quests. An example: Long resting before solving the Druid grove encounter with the ritual, should solve the situation automatically. Long resting before killing the bugbear assasins next to the tiefling should make him kill the tiefling and then go hunt the next one.

However, to make sure that the player does not miss important story scenes inside the camp, there should be a more visible notification to inform the player that something will happen at camp. For example, the Dream scenes after making use of the Tadpole. During my playthrough, I did not use long rest very often at first. Until I realized that important story parts like the dream scenes happen during rest. So in the end I spammed long rest after every encounter since I was worried about missing things.

The amount of short rests need to be increased to 2-3 inbetween long rests. This must happen to make sure characters like Warlocks have enough spell slots.

[Scrolls, potions, consumables]

The game throws WAY too many items at you. Because long rests can be used everywhere, I start every encounter with full HP and full spell slots. I am stockpiling huge amounts of scrolls which I do not need. And it makes all the classes feel less unique. Why even use a Wizard given the fact that we can find scrolls in almost every 5th container? Like in DOS2, special arrrows are also way too numerous. The players are stockpiling tons of food and options which are never used because long rests means you do not have to spend any ressources or items to heal.

The game has soooo much food to throw at you. You can even use food during combat, which must be forbidden immediately. You can feed Gale an entire Pig Head every round (6 seconds) which will heal half of his HP. This makes no sense and why even use potions if you can just eat a steak or a sausage during combat?

Once Long rests are finally limited, food will play a bigger role, along with short rests for recovery. But potions, arrows and scrolls must be much more rare to make the classes feel unique. This goes also for potions of animal speaking. Why would I ever pick an Eldtrich invocation to speak with animals if I can just use a potion for speaking with animals, of which I have atleast 5 at the End of EA. And apparently you can buy an unlimited amount from Volo in camp.


[ITEM FEEDBACK]

The magic items found are really great. I especially like the synergy between staff of crones which gives you the ability to deal 2d8 poison damage + using a robe which boosts poison damage. Very clever! Or the circlet which adds poison to your weapon if you heal yourself from Kadga.

HOWEVER, the magic Circlet from Lump the Enlightneed must be nerfed! 18 intelligence is way too powerful. Its so powerful in fact, once you know about its existence, you can make your entire build around it and dump intelligence.
In my opinion, nerfing this to 16 intelligence should happen atleast. 16 intelligence is achieved much easier at character creation, so this doesn't make a character whom you wanted to turn into a mage more powerful. But it will still help greatly on an Eldritch Knight for example.

[ITEM FEEDBACK: Circlet of Blasting, Staff of Crones and similar effects]

Both Scorching ray granted by Circlet of blasting and Staff of Crones scale use hitchance based on intelligence modifier.
Because of this, a Warlock, who uses Charisma as their spellcasting hitchance modifier, has a much lower chance to hit with Scorching Ray and Ray of Sickness granted by these items.

Please adjust this, so that these items will use Charisma as their hitchance modifier when used by a Warlock. Otherwise Warlocks, which already have few spellslots, cannot make great use of these items. But Wizards, who have many more spellslots, can make great use out of these items and save spellslots.

Overall, I am of the opinion that there are too many magic items. For example the Necklace for Misty Step and Circle for Scorching ray are incredibly powerful artifacts. However I can give my entire party artifacts like these, at level 4 already. I am extremely worried that we end up having characters fully decked out with artifacts in such a way that they get like 3 bonus spells to use. Again, this goes back to what I said earlier. This makes the classes feel less unique. You could have a peasant party with 10 in all stats and no proficiency in magic or anything but because of the sheer amount of arrows, scrolls, food, potions you can still play like a Wizard.



[EVIL PLAYTHROUGH FEEDBACK, from me and other players]

Feedback after raiding the grove. First of all, there need to be a couple hints as to who should be killed. The tieflings at the gate, the ones in the hollow. The player needs to Enter the room with Zevlor and the Druid cove. This should be market on the minimap since many players have struggled with finishing this quest, myself included.


The rewards for doing this are laughable and not worth it at all, compared to the items and artifacts you obtain by killing the Goblin leaders. You only kill a few refugees, but whats worse is you all of the traders you previously had access to.
And if you simply kill the goblin leaders, you gain very powerful items and keep the traders alive. This Questline needs to reward the player with powerful items aswell. Mintharra for example wears a necklace which allows you to use misty step. This is incredibly powerful. But you do not get this item by siding with the goblins.

I suggest the following: The goblin leaders will hand you their powerful artifacts, the same as you would obtain by killing them, as a reward after raiding the grove. Mintharra gives you her magic items.


The camp with goblins and dead villager was a nice addition. It felt very appropriate. However, then comes the scene where Mintharra turns against you and threatens to kill you.
With some clever dialogue choices while sleepin with her, you can prevent this and she will point you to moonrise towers, even point you to a creature which will lead you there. This is clever and I like it a lot.

But a big problem remains. The rewards for doing an evil playthroughs and siding with the goblins are really, really bad. Now Mintharra warns you, that the goblins will be enemies to the player now, so I think you can simply go back to the goblin camp and kill their leaders to get their powerful magic items.
But that takes very long and is quite tedious. And if you just kill the goblins for their good items, you might aswell have sided with refugees and the druids and killed the goblins. This saves a lot of time and Wyll doesn't quit your party.

I fear that most players, after deciding to raid the goblin cove, will fight against Mintharra in camp and kill her. And then the Goblins are also an enemy against you. So in the end, you have to fight the refugees AND the goblins. This makes the evil playthrough feel really bad.
I asked myself "Why did I even do this?" I should have just defended the grove, killed the goblins, gotten a lot of nice items from them, not have Wyll leave my party and not have my companions dissaprove of me for siding with the Absolute. And I would have gotten much better rewards and not felt like an idiot. Just a day before,
goblins were covering in fear. This makes no sense to me.


Part of serving the absolute and helping the goblins is power and authority. And now the game takes authority away from the player again. And every time you say "I side with the absolute" almost everyone in your party will dissaprove of you. It just does not feel rewarding! Larian, you told us that 25% players chose to side with the goblins. If the goblin path had actually good rewards, I am sure there would be many more players siding withthem. Because there is not enough incentive to do so. They do not help you solve the Tadpole situation, they should atleast tell you how to expand your Tadpole powers (the true souls that is).

When I play evil, I expect it to be rewarding. I expect my character to become powerful, at any cost. I expect there to be slaves, servants and npcs who are afraid of me. I don't expect to just kill everyone. Playing evil is not about murdering everyone, there are many sides to it. For example, the player should be able to side with the Shadow Druids.



[What about the new powers by the Absolute?]

After successfully raiding the grove, the Quest log reads as follows:

"With the Tieflings dead, the Absolute granted us new powers. Tonight we celebrate at camp."

But what powers? I gained no new abilities, and I checked my inventory and saw nothing new. Since long rests are not limited at all, I used long rest everytime I wanted. So I already have access to the special abilities like "supernatural attraction" from my dream lover.
Are these the abilities which we are supposed to get after raiding the camp? Otherwise, again, the path of siding with the goblins does not feel rewarding enough compared to siding with the refugees.


[Making the Evil path feel more rewarding, by reddit user u/Crashen17]

Yeah, the main issue with an evil run is motivation. There isn't really any reason to side with the goblins besides fucking Minthara. The goblins turn on you if you help them, if you go to Priestess Gut about your worm, she turns on you and tries to kill you. If you talk to Rogzlin and don't pass a pursuasion check the Ilithid outs you and turns against you.

In the end, if you want to be evil, you have to kill men women and children for no reason and for no special personal gain. The gobbos betraying you is both predictable and kind of nonsensical for this particular story. Regular goblins and drow? Yeah makes perfect sense. But goblins and drow united under the Absolute and taking orders from True Souls have no reason to turn on you (a True Soul) who actually butchered an entire druid grove to complete their mission.

A better narrative arc would be to have two true souls at the grove. Have the drow be in the cage alive, and the girl gobbo be a true soul, dead in halsin's lab. When you talk to the imprisoned drow, you connect and he introduces you to the concept of true souls. He promises to take you to the gobbos where they will help you control your powers and grow strong, if you help him escape.

From there you either kill him, leave him, or help him. He meets you outside the Blighted Village and joins the party as a pet (same way Halsin does) and will get you into the camp and past the goblins if you are terrible at social skills or don't want to use the tadpole for some reason. Otherwise things proceed normally and you meet the three leaders. With him returned, Minthara now knows where the druid grove is and sends you to kill Liam the prisoner.

Meanwhile, Priestess Gut wont try to poison you and imprison you. She will promise to help you "harness your True Soul" but only after the Druid Grove is dealt with. If you do, she basically takes the place of Halsin in the story, directing you towards Moonrise Towers.

Next, if you decide to take out the druid grove, you can either lead the goblins right to them and kill everyone, or you can find some way to sneak back to camp and warn the tieflings to leave, possibly extorting them somehow. The druids stay and have to die however. Maybe you can use Liam to send a message to Zevlor and help him escape.

Reasons for giving the tieflings a chance to escape are simple. Either your character doesn't really care about them and removing them from the picture will make razing the grove easier. Or your character wants the goblin's help in controlling the tadpole, but doesn't want to kill a bunch of innocent refugees to do it. The druids so far are pretty shitty so killing them isn't so bad, but the tieflings haven't really wronged you at all.

Or you can just kill everyone.

After the raid, things progress as normal. Priestess Gut inspects you and determines something is different about you (the Tadpole in her head is probably creating a mental blindspot preventing her from realizing you guys have brain worms). She determines that you need to go to Moonrise Towers to speak to so-and-so. Or to present yourself before the Absolute itself. Whatever Larian plans on having there.

She can warn you that because your True Soul is damaged somehow that the Shadow Cursed areas might have unpredictable affects on you, and tell you to ask Minthara how to get there. Minthara can then set you on a path to the Underdark. The goblins then leave, being directed somewhere else. Maybe Minthara joins your camp in place of Halsin, or maybe you just lose that whole narrative thread for being a dick.

Later on, if you gave the tieflings a chance to escape, maybe you find their caravan slaughtered by gnolls bearing the Absolute's mark. Or maybe they make it to Baldur's Gate and have mixed feelings towards you. Maybe only some of them make it to Baldur's Gate and tell you the rest were killed on the road by goblins or drow or gnolls or whatever.

Either way, you still get a good chunk of refugees killed, you just don't necessarily get your hands dirty.

[Another evil playthrough feedback]

It takes approximately two or three uses of the tadpole power before the player begins to "change" and the mysterious figure (likely Absolute) seems to stymie the transformation. Players may avoid long rests for perceived (or real) gameplay reasons and therefore limit how much insight they get about the 'evil' path. Players that might skip a majority of side content could end up going into the goblin temple with only one or two long rests, long before any real encounter with the mysterious figure.

I suggest you actually have this transformative conversation occur in a forced rest scene sometime around entering the Druid Grove irrespective of how much they use their powers. Players need to have a tantalizing reason to believe the Cult of the Absolute actually could lead them to either mastering or eliminating the tadpole, leading to a more reasonable cause to join with them against the druids. Encourage the player, in this dialogue, to use their powers more to bring them closer together. Basically, give evil players more of a reasonable position to begin siding with the Cult. It'd also provide us insight as to why we are not transforming - this mysterious figure is seemingly holding it at bay. Tangible proof that they can be our salvation.

I might suggest ways to convert the tieflings, convince them to turn against the druids beyond stealing the idol, or any other solutions where evil - but not quite sociopathic - characters might have a compelling reason. I still feel as though the excuse to wipe out the druids feels flimsy.

[Playing as Evil feedback from another user].

Other than some (quite nice) boobs, there's no real incentive or indication to play evil.
It doesn't even feel like an option. Joining them feels like something you set out to do after knowing what happens. It should be an organic decision; something that leads you on that path before you know about other options.



So far, these are my biggest complains. You asked us to play an evil playthrough. The best part are the tadpole powers, which I love. Aswell as the Dream scenes. There needs to be more like this. The Goblin raid of the grove and the rewards are just terribly dissapointing and poorly written. Please read the suggestions carefully and change this up, so that it makes more sense to side with them, with greater incentive and greater rewards.

Adjust resting, reduce the amount of scrolls, potions, food, arrows, bombs, magic potions etc. The game is already easy enough as it is. I only died around twice or three times if I remember correctly. Once to the Spider Queen when I was not level 4 yet, and another time to the double Minotaurs and another time to the Bulette.

Adjust the amount of exp gained from solving encounters in a non-combat way. There is no reason to be happy about completing an intimiation skill check to skip combat. Because you get next to no exp compared to simply fighting out every possible encounter. This must get changed.



Thanks for reading. I am interested in what you guys think about my feedback. Do you agree that the evil playthrough as in siding with the Goblins feels really bad? Most people agree that Long rests and resting in general needs an overhaul, aswell as food, scrolls and consumables.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
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Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
In my opinion, some specific encounters should reward you loot even if you solve the situation via dialogue, for example if you have to make a difficult skill check.

That XP part was good idea ... but i cant really figure how this should work. laugh
Cant imagine any situation, dif.19 intimidation checks included ... where NPC should surender their gear, unless they are brainless stupids. :-/

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Long rests need to be limited. Maybe by giving the player an item that is consumed upon taking a long rest. And these items are spread around the game world in such a way that the player can rest whenever they visit a new town or save place.

Once aggain, i cant quite imagine RP story behind such item ...
Except for silly items, like tent that will self destruct after use. laugh

I still think that some "vitality", "energy", or simply "rested" metter, deplenishing by moving, or fighting ... shows you when your character are exhausted and need to rest (otherwise get disadvantage on everything for example) ... and preventing player to long-rest before that metter is, lets say at 30% ...
That should work quite fine.
And it also ensure that everyone will have +/- simmilar amount of rests, so your character will have much much, and once aggain much lesser risk to miss anything important in camp. wink

I know, that some people can, and will run in circle to exhaust themselves and long rest at will ... but hey, nobody ever find any unexploitable system. laugh

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Long rests need to progress the story and quests. An example: Long resting before solving the Druid grove encounter with the ritual, should solve the situation automatically. Long resting before killing the bugbear assasins next to the tiefling should make him kill the tiefling and then go hunt the next one.

I love the idea of forced long rest before important events!
Not sure how to implement it tho, but love it anyway! :3

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
The amount of short rests need to be increased to 2-3 inbetween long rests. This must happen to make sure characters like Warlocks have enough spell slots.

Once aggain problem that seem to be easily solved with "rested" metter ... you need to use your short rests before long rest ... your short rests will replenish you 20% of your rested metter. :P

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
The game throws WAY too many items at you. Because long rests can be used everywhere, I start every encounter with full HP and full spell slots. I am stockpiling huge amounts of scrolls which I do not need. And it makes all the classes feel less unique. Why even use a Wizard given the fact that we can find scrolls in almost every 5th container? Like in DOS2, special arrrows are also way too numerous. The players are stockpiling tons of food and options which are never used because long rests means you do not have to spend any ressources or items to heal.

Well, if you are stockpiling they certainly can feel overwhelming ...

But there is few things ...
1) Once Long Rest will be restricted (and i bet it will be, its just loosened for EA, so Larian can see where and when we use it) this situation will dramaticaly change. laugh
2) As i understand it, reading the feedback here, every scroll should be (acording to e5) useable only for class that can also use such spell ... meaning that if you will stockpile huge amount of Wizard scrolls, they will work as additional spellslots for your wizards, and your wizards only! (And maybe Eldrich Knights, or Arcane Tricksters, not sure here). Simmilar to Cleric scrolls, etc. etc.
Wich should really solve this problem with uniqeness of certain classes, and since Long Rest will (and i bet it will) be restricted, i presume we will be happy for every single additional spell we will be able to use.
3) About arrows ... i dont think there is too much of them, if you are scrimping them, then you will have many ofc ... on the other hand, when you are using them regulary, for example with your dex. fighter, or dex. cleric, or dex. ranger, etc. ... basicaly anything except rogue, since sneak attack is in most situations a bit stronger and you cant use sneak attact with elemental arrow (yet) ... you can find out that there isnt as much as it semed, but their amount is quite OK, not too much to charish them as something extra extra extra rare, yet not so little so you use it to hunt rabits for fun.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
This goes also for potions of animal speaking. Why would I ever pick an Eldtrich invocation to speak with animals if I can just use a potion for speaking with animals, of which I have atleast 5 at the End of EA. And apparently you can buy an unlimited amount from Volo in camp.

I presume it depends on if you are more in need of gold, or spellslots ...
Again, situation will change once Long Rest will be limited. laugh

Here i would point out rather the fact that animal speaking potion is working until long rest ... wich with certain group setting can be potentialy almost infinitely ... on the other hands speak with animals spell works only since you keep concentration, and you dont get recast spell, when used as with other "speaking" spells (so far i found only one additional speaking spell, and it was speak with dead)
I would totally love to see that speak with animals spell to be used the same as speak with dead ...


Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
HOWEVER, the magic Circlet from Lump the Enlightneed must be nerfed! 18 intelligence is way too powerful. Its so powerful in fact, once you know about its existence, you can make your entire build around it and dump intelligence.
In my opinion, nerfing this to 16 intelligence should happen atleast. 16 intelligence is achieved much easier at character creation, so this doesn't make a character whom you wanted to turn into a mage more powerful. But it will still help greatly on an Eldritch Knight for example.

Cant say i entirely disagree ... if this item will be nerfed i still can find some uses for it.
But i bet that in later game everyone who will try to exploit this fact and dump Int stat for their Wizard (or Int focused class in general), to use 18int crown, wil cry for every single other (and quite possibly stronger) artefact they will have to throw away. laugh

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Both Scorching ray granted by Circlet of blasting and Staff of Crones scale use hitchance based on intelligence modifier.
Because of this, a Warlock, who uses Charisma as their spellcasting hitchance modifier, has a much lower chance to hit with Scorching Ray and Ray of Sickness granted by these items.

Please adjust this, so that these items will use Charisma as their hitchance modifier when used by a Warlock. Otherwise Warlocks, which already have few spellslots, cannot make great use of these items. But Wizards, who have many more spellslots, can make great use out of these items and save spellslots.

I believe this is intentional ...
(Also i hit with my warlock quite often with Circled of Blasting ... and i dumped int completely)
And it (funny enough) was probably intended as save mechanics against the very next thing you are complaining about:

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Overall, I am of the opinion that there are too many magic items. For example the Necklace for Misty Step and Circle for Scorching ray are incredibly powerful artifacts. However I can give my entire party artifacts like these, at level 4 already. I am extremely worried that we end up having characters fully decked out with artifacts in such a way that they get like 3 bonus spells to use. Again, this goes back to what I said earlier. This makes the classes feel less unique. You could have a peasant party with 10 in all stats and no proficiency in magic or anything but because of the sheer amount of arrows, scrolls, food, potions you can still play like a Wizard.

And it can be even worse ...
Since those items dont have any "internal spell slot" of its own, but more like working like "temporary spell slot per character" ...
So if you have for example Circlet of Blasting ... and you use it on your first character, you can after that simply take it off, give it to another character, and cast another Scorching Ray for free ...

Here i can see the real problem with magical artefacts ...
That, and the fact that some artefacts that are obtained from vendors reappear after long rest in their inventory, so you can buy them multiple times ... so potentialy, you can do whole fight with Scorching Rays only. laugh

Back to previous quote once aggain:
Sure, those two problems can be countered with using circlet to 18Int, and Staff of Crones at the same time ... so you have both additional spell, and also hit modifier ... but it once aggain needs at least two items, to get required effectivity ...
Personaly i think, this is a good system, and once artefacts will be indeed usable once per l/s rest ... and not once per l/s rest, per character ... it will work much better. smile

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Feedback after raiding the grove. First of all, there need to be a couple hints as to who should be killed. The tieflings at the gate, the ones in the hollow. The player needs to Enter the room with Zevlor and the Druid cove. This should be market on the minimap since many players have struggled with finishing this quest, myself included.

Marks on minimap seem like good additional hints ...
But you see who you need to kill, since goblins with Minthara are attacking them, so all you need to do is stick to them. laugh

They also should continue in killing once Tieflings are done, since in my experience they stayed in Zevlor's cave and i was allone against all druids. laugh

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
The rewards for doing this are laughable and not worth it at all, compared to the items and artifacts you obtain by killing the Goblin leaders. You only kill a few refugees, but whats worse is you all of the traders you previously had access to.
And if you simply kill the goblin leaders, you gain very powerful items and keep the traders alive. This Questline needs to reward the player with powerful items aswell. Mintharra for example wears a necklace which allows you to use misty step. This is incredibly powerful. But you do not get this item by siding with the goblins.

The real problem at the moment is that you will loose the two in Goblin camp once goblins turn on you ... if that will be changed and Mithnaras (aka Goblins) betrayal will be not default, but optional outcome ... or even better, if Mintharas betrayal will not affect rest of the goblin camp (meaning she betray you on her own, not in behalf of whole camp) ... both sides will be perfectly ballanced in default end, and every other outcome will be just consequence of player bad decision (or missfortune in dicerolls).
But even without it, there is still enough traders in this game (unless you decide to kill them all, but in that case, its only your fault) to not worry about one, or two more or less. laugh
For my evil Drow playtrough i lost every vendor, except that one in Myconid village, and he will suffice. smile

About artifacts of, litteraly every NPC ... not sure if all of them, but certainly most of them you can force NPC to trade with you ... wich also seem quite ridiculous, i admit that ... just saying that there is a way to get many of them, if not even all.
It works even with Arabela mother in moment when she, dont want to talk to you at all anymore, and are just sending you away ... if you click on trade button, she is forced to trade with you her pendant. laugh
(Trade ... but more like Forced Trade button, is in down left corner)
So ... you have options to get (as far as i know) litteraly all artefacts, no matter who you sided with. wink

And even if you dont want to use this forced trade option ...
It seem only natural to me that you will get only artefacts of the oposite side than you side with ...
If you decide to help Tieflings, Zevlor also never decide to give you his gloves, wich are also quite sweet ...
If you decide to not kill druids, Kagha will also dont give you her neck ...
So ... if you were sugesting to add more interesting loot to Tieflings, and Druids, or just tredistribue those existing ones ... so even Evil route will have something interesting there ... i would agree, even if i think that there is some interesting items on both sides allready. smile

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
I suggest the following: The goblin leaders will hand you their powerful artifacts, the same as you would obtain by killing them, as a reward after raiding the grove. Mintharra gives you her magic items.

Simply ... nope.
This is just nonsence.
I get that you want those items, but this is completely out of everything we have seen so far. laugh
Can you find one single reason for them to do that? Bcs i dont.

I could imagine some conversation between you and Minthara in camp like:
Intimidation check: Player: "You have nice neckage, and mace ... hand them over!" (dif. 19 at least :D)
Sucess: Minthara: "Here you go"
Failure: Minthara: "You can get them only over my dead body!"
Optional reactions: Player: "That was plan B." ... OR: Player "Nevermind then." > Minthara: "You should know better to threaten me ... GOBLINS! ATTACK!"

That seem fiting to characters.
But just giving you? Nah, thats just lazy man. laugh

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
I asked myself "Why did I even do this?" I should have just defended the grove, killed the goblins, gotten a lot of nice items from them, not have Wyll leave my party and not have my companions dissaprove of me for siding with the Absolute. And I would have gotten much better rewards and not felt like an idiot. Just a day before,
goblins were covering in fear. This makes no sense to me.

Bcs you are thinking retrospectively ...
Our characters dont have that luxury ... ofc, if you cant find the reason to join Minthara, before you actualy join Minthara, you probably should not do that ... but if you do, and outome dont work for you as you expected, you are left with only regrets ... as your character should be, in the same situation.

So it seem acurate to me. wink

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Part of serving the absolute and helping the goblins is power and authority. And now the game takes authority away from the player again. And every time you say "I side with the absolute" almost everyone in your party will dissaprove of you. It just does not feel rewarding!

Yeah ... you just need to decide between companions, and kinda everyone else. laugh

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Larian, you told us that 25% players chose to side with the goblins. If the goblin path had actually good rewards, I am sure there would be many more players siding withthem.

Possibly, probably, ...
But the question here is if they will side with goblins bcs that path will seem more interesting ... or just for the reward in the end.

Personaly i like very much that Larian kinda screewed us ... i bet that there will be some reward in the end, wich we didnt even seen so far. And righ now im not talking about whole game end, but only about Act1 ending. wink
Just the path is a little more thorny than we expect, and personaly i like it that way. smile

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
When I play evil, I expect it to be rewarding. I expect my character to become powerful, at any cost. I expect there to be slaves, servants and npcs who are afraid of me. I don't expect to just kill everyone. Playing evil is not about murdering everyone, there are many sides to it.

I would recomend to wait for whole goblin story to be revealed, before i start to concider if that was rewarding enough. wink

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
For example, the player should be able to side with the Shadow Druids.

Personaly i didnt try it yet, but i readed in one of others "evil path bad" topics here that someone manage to support them (not exactly sided but you get the idea) ... then they simply finish ritual of thorns, and Minthara is mad about being unable to attact the groove.
But as i say, its just rumor to me now.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Yeah, the main issue with an evil run is motivation. There isn't really any reason to side with the goblins besides fucking Minthara. The goblins turn on you if you help them, if you go to Priestess Gut about your worm, she turns on you and tries to kill you. If you talk to Rogzlin and don't pass a pursuasion check the Ilithid outs you and turns against you.

Once aggain you are rating retrospectively ...
That is your problem. smile

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
In the end, if you want to be evil, you have to kill men women and children for no reason and for no special personal gain.

But when you are helping Tieflings you have to kill goblin men, goblin women, and gobin children for no reason and for hanfull few coins.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
The gobbos betraying you is both predictable and kind of nonsensical for this particular story. Regular goblins and drow? Yeah makes perfect sense. But goblins and drow united under the Absolute and taking orders from True Souls have no reason to turn on you (a True Soul) who actually butchered an entire druid grove to complete their mission.

I keep telling people "you dont see to their heads, you still dont know full story, even for first act" ... and yet, once uppon a time there is someone who just cames here, and starts talking about how someone else have no reason to do anything. laugh

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
A better narrative arc would be to have two true souls at the grove. Have the drow be in the cage alive, and the girl gobbo be a true soul, dead in halsin's lab. When you talk to the imprisoned drow, you connect and he introduces you to the concept of true souls. He promises to take you to the gobbos where they will help you control your powers and grow strong, if you help him escape.

I dont see any difference here ... you just switched two characters for nothing.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
From there you either kill him, leave him, or help him. He meets you outside the Blighted Village and joins the party as a pet (same way Halsin does) and will get you into the camp and past the goblins if you are terrible at social skills or don't want to use the tadpole for some reason. Otherwise things proceed normally and you meet the three leaders. With him returned, Minthara now knows where the druid grove is and sends you to kill Liam the prisoner.

I dont see here much difference ...
The only thing you added so far is kill prissoner ... wich seem pointless, even conciderable as act of mercy in fact. :-/

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Meanwhile, Priestess Gut wont try to poison you and imprison you. She will promise to help you "harness your True Soul" but only after the Druid Grove is dealt with. If you do, she basically takes the place of Halsin in the story, directing you towards Moonrise Towers.

Once aggain i dont see much difference ...
You once aggain just switched Minthara with Gut ... and completely reworked Gut to do that. O_o

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Next, if you decide to take out the druid grove, you can either lead the goblins right to them and kill everyone, or you can find some way to sneak back to camp and warn the tieflings to leave, possibly extorting them somehow. The druids stay and have to die however. Maybe you can use Liam to send a message to Zevlor and help him escape.

This isnt exactly bad idea ... but if i understand it corectly, Baldur's gate is on North-West from groove ... meaning straight over Goblin territory ...
Cant imagine how you want those refugees to go around the goblin army.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Reasons for giving the tieflings a chance to escape are simple. Either your character doesn't really care about them and removing them from the picture will make razing the grove easier. Or your character wants the goblin's help in controlling the tadpole, but doesn't want to kill a bunch of innocent refugees to do it. The druids so far are pretty shitty so killing them isn't so bad, but the tieflings haven't really wronged you at all.

I kinda like this idea ...
Would like it even more, if you could also warn, and help escape Druids and dont give a damn about Tieflings ...
So we have all outcomes present ...

On the other hand those options starts to create "noone getting harm" ways ... wich kinda negates this hard decision.
Wich i kinda like on this, no one cant save everyone ... not even human named David Hasselhoff ...

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
After the raid, things progress as normal. Priestess Gut inspects you and determines something is different about you (the Tadpole in her head is probably creating a mental blindspot preventing her from realizing you guys have brain worms). She determines that you need to go to Moonrise Towers to speak to so-and-so. Or to present yourself before the Absolute itself. Whatever Larian plans on having there.

Once aggain ... this dont actualy change anything ... it a little different conversation, but exactly the same can Minthara do for you, and she will if you roll your dices right. O_o

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
She can warn you that because your True Soul is damaged somehow that the Shadow Cursed areas might have unpredictable affects on you, and tell you to ask Minthara how to get there. Minthara can then set you on a path to the Underdark. The goblins then leave, being directed somewhere else. Maybe Minthara joins your camp in place of Halsin, or maybe you just lose that whole narrative thread for being a dick.

It sounds a bit overcombinated, since Minthara can provide you a way to go on the ground without being affraid of shadowcurse ...
I also dont seem much reasons for her to just stand in corner of your camp. :-/

And since we dont know yet what outcome will be there in Moonrise Towers, i would not start to change story before i see it. laugh


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Hey! Thank you very much for your reply.

I am glad you agree on the topic of limiting long rests in some way. I also think right now they are not limited to gather as much information as possible, but I want an official statement on the matter. I remember during a presentation, Swen said they are still fine tuning the resitng system. At that point it was 2 Short rests inbetween long rests. But no one ever said anything about having unlimited long rests...

[quote=RagnarokCzD]In my opinion, some specific encounters should reward you loot even if you solve the situation via dialogue, for example if you have to make a difficult skill check.

That XP part was good idea ... but i cant really figure how this should work. :D
Cant imagine any situation, dif.19 intimidation checks included ... where NPC should surender their gear, unless they are brainless stupids. :-/ [/quote]

Well it sounds like an easy fix. You count the amount of enemies you would have to fight in this encounter. And then you simply reward the player with the amount of exp they would get from defeating all enemies. As if you had actually defeated the enemies. And then you make it so if you kill the npcs afterwards, you do not get any exp (so you do not exploit this and get twice the amount of exp). Also many npcs run away after a peaceful encounter, so you cannot attack them anymore. Atleast not without forced turn base mode and blast them while they run away.


[quote=RagnarokCzD]And it can be even worse ...
Since those items dont have any "internal spell slot" of its own, but more like working like "temporary spell slot per character" ...
So if you have for example Circlet of Blasting ... and you use it on your first character, you can after that simply take it off, give it to another character, and cast another Scorching Ray for free ...

Here i can see the real problem with magical artefacts ...
That, and the fact that some artefacts that are obtained from vendors reappear after long rest in their inventory, so you can buy them multiple times ... so potentialy, you can do whole fight with Scorching Rays only. laugh

Back to previous quote once aggain:
Sure, those two problems can be countered with using circlet to 18Int, and Staff of Crones at the same time ... so you have both additional spell, and also hit modifier ... but it once aggain needs at least two items, to get required effectivity ...
Personaly i think, this is a good system, and once artefacts will be indeed usable once per l/s rest ... and not once per l/s rest, per character ... it will work much better. smile [/quote]

I also found that after I pickpocketed the circlet of blasting, the npc would still sell it to me. This is getting out of hand, now there is two of them!

While I hope the magic items get adjusted to use your primary casting attribute like Charisma for warlock, I think there could be a simple solution to prevent exploits such as unequipping and re-equipping items with spells. Once you have used the spell belonging to an item and it is used up, simply forbid the player from removing said item until the next short rest or long rest once the spell slot from said item is regained. Easy fix, now you can use the spell, you cannot unequip the item once the spell is used up and have to recover said spell until you can decide to equip another item.


[quote=RagnarokCzD]
Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Larian, you told us that 25% players chose to side with the goblins. If the goblin path had actually good rewards, I am sure there would be many more players siding withthem.

Possibly, probably, ...
But the question here is if they will side with goblins bcs that path will seem more interesting ... or just for the reward in the end.

Personaly i like very much that Larian kinda screewed us ... i bet that there will be some reward in the end, wich we didnt even seen so far. And righ now im not talking about whole game end, but only about Act1 ending. wink
Just the path is a little more thorny than we expect, and personaly i like it that way. smile

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
When I play evil, I expect it to be rewarding. I expect my character to become powerful, at any cost. I expect there to be slaves, servants and npcs who are afraid of me. I don't expect to just kill everyone. Playing evil is not about murdering everyone, there are many sides to it.

I would recomend to wait for whole goblin story to be revealed, before i start to concider if that was rewarding enough. wink [/quote]

So most of your response to my evil playthrough criticism was along the lines of "yes, the rewards are bad and the story doesn't make much sense, but we should wait on how the story developes?"

While I am also looking forward the Story and how it will unfold, I have to disagree with you here. Because Early Access is precisely about giving feedback about whats in the game right now, not about whats coming. And me telling Larian that I hope the story will become better doesn't make the lackluster evil playthrough, which we have right now, any better.

I stand by my point of view. There is not enough incentive to side with the goblins. Evil choices, much like a deal with the Devil, or a deal with a Patron for Warlocks, are done for lust of power and a quick way to power and rewards - with drawbacks and problems which only unfold itself later on.

However, we do not get this at all in our evil playthrough. In fact we get worse rewards. We get less content. Because if you rescue the Tieflings, they will without a doubt make it to Baldur's Gate, where they are headed. Atleast some of them are going to show up in a later part of the game. Think about the Tiefling with which you can bet 10 gold on her death. If you kill them, well of course they do not show up, so they cannot give you any quests or interactions. Are we going to get other content because of this? Possibly?

But this does not change the fact that the questline of siding with the goblins is lackluster, has poor rewards and just does not fit in the game in its current state. The evil playhrough needs to be alluring! Just like the lover in your dreams, who actually grants you powerful skills if you decide to follow him/ her! This is exactly what I would expect from an evil playthrough. Which makes me even more dissapointed by how terrible the rewards of siding with the goblins and how dull the ending to that Questline, where they end up betraying you, are.


Edit: Well looks like the quote mechanism didn't work like it was shown in the preview. Sorry for that. Maybe if someone can help me out I can fix it?

Last edited by feedback_wizard; 03/11/20 06:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Well it sounds like an easy fix. You count the amount of enemies you would have to fight in this encounter.

Oh yes, certainly ... i reacted on that gear giving in peacefull options ... i could write that much better tho. :-/

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Once you have used the spell belonging to an item and it is used up, simply forbid the player from removing said item until the next short rest or long rest once the spell slot from said item is regained. Easy fix, now you can use the spell, you cannot unequip the item once the spell is used up and have to recover said spell until you can decide to equip another item.

This idea i cant support ... i dont see exploit in using for example 4 different crowns, each with its own spell so save your spellslots ... that is completely okey by my opionion ...
I see exploit in use the same crown on four different characters ...

Wich can be easily fixed, if they create some hidden item spell slot that will be used by casting its spell ... and replenished by long, or short rest. That way item is trully usable once per long rest, as i sayd.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
So most of your response to my evil playthrough criticism was along the lines of "yes, the rewards are bad and the story doesn't make much sense, but we should wait on how the story developes?"

Yup ... kinda ...
I just love that someone finaly(!) have courage to let you kill anyone, even if that means you can kill everyone ... i just hated that in Skyrim, when Bethesda presented their "important characters preventing to die" system. -_-
I want to have option to screw myself completely, i want to think about what i will do, or who i will piss off, bcs i can completely destroy whole story ... as it was in old Fallout(1).
You want to go full chaotic evil and leave behind you nothing by bloody furrow? You are welcome to try ... but remember, it wont be easy.

Those are very sumed up, and very shortened reason why i like it as it is ... and why i would hate to lost it. frown

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
While I am also looking forward the Story and how it will unfold, I have to disagree with you here. Because Early Access is precisely about giving feedback about whats in the game right now, not about whats coming. And me telling Larian that I hope the story will become better doesn't make the lackluster evil playthrough, which we have right now, any better.

Im not in disagreement with the fact that we should provide feedback for what we have ...

I just reminding people that so many of them are mad or sad about "not getting proper reward" ... and they are not even on the end of Act1 ... meaning yes, you was not properly rewarded, but you are not even in the end of this quest you wish to be rewarded for.

I would not call it lackluster ... its maybe too focused on only one aspect (chaotic evil), but since Larian supposedly writed somewhere that Goblin quest will be reseen once aggain ... i presume that will change. :-/
I just hope it will not change to simply focus on something else.
Options are allways the best way.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
I stand by my point of view. There is not enough incentive to side with the goblins. Evil choices, much like a deal with the Devil, or a deal with a Patron for Warlocks, are done for lust of power and a quick way to power and rewards - with drawbacks and problems which only unfold itself later on.

If you writed "are usualy done" or "one of reasons is" instead of "are done" like "are allways done" i would be able to even agree with you on this ...

That is the problem, you seem to see word "evil" as just "neutral evil" or maybe "lawful evil", where you would be right, completely in one case, and partialy in other one ... but there is at last one more version, that usualy dont care at all about possessions, power, or rewards ... and that is "chaotic evil".
Think about Joker for example ...
What did he ever get from anything he did, except having a little fun?

Have you seen those goblin kids that was throwing rocks at the bear? What was driving them? Lust for power? Or wish for reward? Nope ... simple enjoyment of hurting someone.

And i understand that you wish to play your greedy evil character lusting for money, or power ... preferably both ... that will betray, cheat and lie to get the most for himself ... i believe you have that option, its just not on goblin side. :-/
And personaly im just not sure if that is wrong thing ... after all, most villains thrives the best in regular (aka good/neutral) society. wink

If your character is looking only for profit, in any form, he should use Sazza to get to goblin camp as potential ally ... there s/he find out that goblins dont offer any reward, and therefore betray them by gate, siding with tieflings, and colecting reward ...
Perfect evil playthrough. :-/
You have there everything you need ... there is liying, there is doublecrossing, there is betrayal, there is profit ... what is missing? smile

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
However, we do not get this at all in our evil playthrough. In fact we get worse rewards. We get less content.

I believe we do ...
If you wish to be rewarded, Zevlor promised you reward ... no matter how small, he promised some.
So you need to help them to get it ...

Right now you are turning left, and complaining that you cant get to right. :-/

About content ...
That is exactly one of things that we dont know yet ...

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Because if you rescue the Tieflings, they will without a doubt make it to Baldur's Gate, where they are headed. Atleast some of them are going to show up in a later part of the game.

This ... exactly this!
See what you are doing? You are adding content to justify one route over another.
But when i say that goblin path is not yet over, you start talking about that we should rate only things that are allready ingame. laugh

Also you seem to forgeting that, if you play Goblin route, there is litteraly no reason to kill Dror Ragzlin ... and there is even possibility that Minthara will survive.
Here you have at least two characters that can show up in later part of the game ... just the same. smile

Therefore i dare to say that you never get "less content" you get different content.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Think about the Tiefling with which you can bet 10 gold on her death. If you kill them, well of course they do not show up, so they cannot give you any quests or interactions. Are we going to get other content because of this? Possibly?

Yup ... you dont need to kill Gut, you dont need to kill Minthara, you dont need to kill Dror Ragzlin, you dont need to kill Spike, or Crusher, or Sazza (Her you can save, to be more precise, or so i heared, didnt try yet ... i dont like her. :D) ... and many little goblins that have names, but i dont remember them, for example that prisoner stil loyal to Maglubiyet. laugh

Ofc. every character you kill have contend closed, but that is just consequences of your own doing ... its not part of this story.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
But this does not change the fact that the questline of siding with the goblins is lackluster, has poor rewards and just does not fit in the game in its current state.

Its not, has not, and does. laugh

About lacklustery ... i believe its the oposite.
Either you help Tieflings, kill few Goblins and voila! Its done! No epic fight, no story loops ... simple MMO quest "go and kill that dude with special name". Nothing more, nothing less.
Yes i know you can go out and take whole goblin camp, to have epic fight, but that is exactly it you "can" not "need to".
You dont even need to free Halsin, when you kill all leaders and just walk away, he will simply kill his Jailers, and appear in druid groove.
But! When you decide to not help Tieflings, but instead side with goblins ...
There is first option of betrayal, when you met Minthara, in the same second you will determine fate of Sazza, then there is city (or more like gate) siege, in the same second you have another option of betrayal ... and then whenewe you want it or not, you "need to" help wipe whole camp out.
So if you compare ... i say that there is even better story for goblins, than tieflings.

About rewards ... you are comparing reward to loot ...
"Rewards" are few gold (cant remember how many) from Zevlor ... or sex from Minthara. laugh Both quite insignificant to be honest, in the end there is little to no difference between "rewards".
Loot is different story. I would totaly agree that Kagha and Zevlor should also get some interesting weapons ... bcs right now you will loot from druids and Tieflings only two necks, and gloves ...
On the other hand, Gobins allow you to use autobane gloves ... and those are incredible!
(And if you want to point out the fact that mark of the Absolute can have even good character, remember that forced trade i was talking about last time. wink )

And about fiting ...
I dont see single thing that dont fit, there you must be a little more specific. :-/

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
The evil playhrough needs to be alluring!

It is ... just not for you.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Just like the lover in your dreams, who actually grants you powerful skills if you decide to follow him/ her! This is exactly what I would expect from an evil playthrough.

That is completely different situation ... your dreams, and whole tadpole situation is clearly part of main plot in game, or at least in Act 1 ...

Goblin / Tiefling fight is just minor, yet a bit longer questline solving one skirmish of barely medium size, in middle of nowhere.
Its the same as skirmish between Myconids and Duegards ... yet that one is even smaller (so far).
Or fight that was mentioned between Duegars, and Deep Gnome slaves ...
Or in fact even that dispute between Tieflings and Druids ... yet that one dont need to involve any fighting.

Also you cant just be rewarded with new skills (or equip in fact) for every decision you made ...
That way you will be strongest entity of whole universe in level four. laugh

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Which makes me even more dissapointed by how terrible the rewards of siding with the goblins and how dull the ending to that Questline, where they end up betraying you, are.

Its also not certain ... they certainly try to betray you, and if they do (read as: If you piss off Minthara, or fail in diceroll) im honestly not entirely sure how are you suppose to learn about Moonrise Towers ...
But if you manage to persuade her that she should side with you ... you get exactly the same as with Halsin ... potential follower, and way to safely get to Moonrise Towers.

I would like to hear where you see difference tho.

//edit:
And for that quote ... no idea, it works fine to me. laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 04/11/20 02:42 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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[quote=RagnarokCzD]That is the problem, you seem to see word "evil" as just "neutral evil" or maybe "lawful evil", where you would be right, completely in one case, and partialy in other one ... but there is at last one more version, that usualy dont care at all about possessions, power, or rewards ... and that is "chaotic evil".
Think about Joker for example ...
What did he ever get from anything he did, except having a little fun?
[/quote]

No I do understand there are multiple options to it. However, I think we can agree the goblin route is more about chaotic evil. The goblins themselves may be lawful evil, but your player ends up just killing everyone thats in their path. Which is a way to be evil. But its only one and there should be many different options. There are 2 ways to solve the issue in the grove aswell, after all.

[quote=RagnarokCzD]
But when i say that goblin path is not yet over, you start talking about that we should rate only things that are allready ingame. [/quote]

This is just speculation from you. Why should I believe this is the case? And besides, with the way the evil playthrough ends, the goblins end up hostile to you regardless of your decision of protecting or raiding the grove.

[quote=RagnarokCzD]And i understand that you wish to play your greedy evil character lusting for money, or power ... preferably both ... that will betray, cheat and lie to get the most for himself ... i believe you have that option, its just not on goblin side. :-/
And personaly im just not sure if that is wrong thing ... after all, most villains thrives the best in regular (aka good/neutral) society. [/quote]

But does it exist at all? Helping the tieflings is not it. The tieflings do not offer you a cure, they just ask you for help. So what about siding with the Shadow Druids? Are they not evil and manipulative? I have not played this so I don't know sadly.

[quote=RagnarokCzD]Either you help Tieflings, kill few Goblins and voila! Its done! No epic fight, no story loops ... simple MMO quest "go and kill that dude with special name". Nothing more, nothing less. [/quote]

I disagree. Ambushing the goblins inside the Inner Sanctum and fighting them from above is pretty epic. And they may end up calling reinforcements so you can have a very long and drawn-out fight. It is the definition of epic. And as I have pointed out, you get the best rewards by killing the goblin Leaders. This shouldn't be the case, the rewards should be more even.

[quote=RagnarokCzD]Both quite insignificant to be honest, in the end there is little to no difference between "rewards". [/quote]

Thats just flat out wrong. The circlet which gives you a free cast of "misty step" from Mintharra is among the most powerful items you can pick up in EA. Its extremely powerful for any character. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about poor rewards. The rewards are not even close to comparable.

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there is only one true evil path and it's the following:

kill everyone after getting the most out of them :P

good luck smile

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Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
No I do understand there are multiple options to it. However, I think we can agree the goblin route is more about chaotic evil. The goblins themselves may be lawful evil, but your player ends up just killing everyone thats in their path. Which is a way to be evil. But its only one and there should be many different options. There are 2 ways to solve the issue in the grove aswell, after all.

Well ... i dunno, during the raid people get killed, that is usualy how things work ...
Not sure how this works if you decide to knock them out instead of killing.

As i said already, i would like to see civilians cornered somewhere, and let player to decide what to do with them.
That should satisfy both sides imo.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
But when i say that goblin path is not yet over, you start talking about that we should rate only things that are allready ingame.
This is just speculation from you. Why should I believe this is the case? And besides, with the way the evil playthrough ends, the goblins end up hostile to you regardless of your decision of protecting or raiding the grove.

Well ... this (what you quoted) was more like reproach to your own argument ...

Anyway you dont need to thrust me ...
If you wish to thrust NPC, you can thrust what Minthara say ... same as Tiefling NPCs are talking about meeting you in Baldur's Gate ... Minthara is talking about you returning from Moonrise Towers, as something far better than you are. wink

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
And i understand that you wish to play your greedy evil character lusting for money, or power ... preferably both ... that will betray, cheat and lie to get the most for himself ... i believe you have that option, its just not on goblin side. :-/
And personaly im just not sure if that is wrong thing ... after all, most villains thrives the best in regular (aka good/neutral) society.
But does it exist at all? Helping the tieflings is not it. The tieflings do not offer you a cure, they just ask you for help. So what about siding with the Shadow Druids? Are they not evil and manipulative? I have not played this so I don't know sadly.

It is ... tiefings offer you a reward ... goblins dont ... so greedy character, no matter how evil, should help them to get that reward ...

As for cure, that is entirely different story ... its up to you if you will believe this Absolute, or you try your luck with Githyanki, or Halsin ... tieflings (nor goblins in fact) have no role in this quest.

Well if you side with shadowdruids (i curently did ... even if i have litteraly no idea how i did it tho. :D) groove will be sealed ... what will happen next i find out soon enough, but curently i dont know.

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Either you help Tieflings, kill few Goblins and voila! Its done! No epic fight, no story loops ... simple MMO quest "go and kill that dude with special name". Nothing more, nothing less.

I disagree. Ambushing the goblins inside the Inner Sanctum and fighting them from above is pretty epic. And they may end up calling reinforcements so you can have a very long and drawn-out fight. It is the definition of epic. And as I have pointed out, you get the best rewards by killing the goblin Leaders. This shouldn't be the case, the rewards should be more even.

And as i said, you may turn it into much greater battle ... but you dont "need to". wink
And that was what i compared ... bare minimum on both sides. Anything you add for only one side, just distorts the results.

And those rewards you keep talking about is loot ... there is difference.
You know, this conversation will be as long as in the other post, where we elonged it to 10 paiges ... bcs no one ever listened, and just repeated the same, and same, and same, and same, and same, and same, ....
It dont become truth just bcs you say it milion times. :-/

Originally Posted by feedback_wizard
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Both quite insignificant to be honest, in the end there is little to no difference between "rewards".

Thats just flat out wrong. The circlet which gives you a free cast of "misty step" from Mintharra is among the most powerful items you can pick up in EA. Its extremely powerful for any character. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about poor rewards. The rewards are not even close to comparable.

L-O-O-T -_-


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
On the discussion of an evil playthrough, I agree. Choosing the evil option should offer it's own rewards and should feel worth it, otherwise most players would side with the "good" side even if they're evil to get loot/knowledge/companions/etc. for themselves. I also think it'll be important to offer variety on the evil route you take, for example, not being evil just because you LoVE tHe AbSOLutE. I'm really excited to see what sort of evil options Larian adds in the future game smile

On the positive though, I'm really loving the game, and love the effort they're putting in to offer evil options for players as many games only provide hero-like options.


What is the colour of night? Sanguine, my brothers and sisters.

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