Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Do you make "builds" or "characters"?

Both

I almost always begin with a character in mind. Usually starting with a race/class combo that appeals to me. Then I flesh out who they are a bit, and then I start looking at their build to see how I can best accommodate this character in gameplay terms. Once I am working on the build I will min-max it to the best of my ability within the scope of that initial character concept so it is as mechanically powerful as I can make it.

The second part is just as important as the first in my mind because I tend to make heroes and villains. Larger than life characters about to go on a grand adventure. If they aren't good at surviving that adventure then they aren't really living up to the role I had planned for them.

For example if I want to make a crossbow ranger dwarf I will do my best to make the most mechanically potent crossbow wielding dwarf ranger I can, even if I know he'll not be as good as a wood elf ranger with a longbow.

5e helps in that there aren't too many options that are truly terrible. The difference between an extra +1 to attack roles isn't that enormous, and a dwarf ranger does have some small advantages over a wood elf ranger to compensate. Chiefly being better at concentration and having more HP and therefore being a tankier ranger option at the cost of damage output.

Is it top tier min-maxed? No, but that is fine with me. As long as he can fight and do well enough to justify his place in the party I am fine with it.

I really cant wait for an in depth character editor so that my imagined character can fit a certain build I have in mind. I really hope that DnD <Effects> can be edited for each characters.

In BG2 I imagined a Half-elf magical planes-walking bard living in Sigil, city of doors. With character editor I can customize his characteristics. He has high resistance to magic (75% resistance magic), innate skill of <shadow door>(can portal out of combat to a safe place) exceptional evasion speed (bonuses to AC against slashing/piercing/blunt/missiles), high affinity to magic (extra spell slots for 1,2,3 level spells and can fast cast) and can cause a critical hit with bladed weapons on a rolls of 18,19 or 20 with a D20. HOWEVER he may only learn defensive spells, has weakness to fire magic, can only use and be proficient in bladed weapons and has a constitution/strength penalty. All of this can be edited with EEkeeper , including many effects!

I lean harder into the roleplaying side of things. The characters I play the longest always have the best stories. Of course, I still get build ideas I want to try, but typically only do so once the character inspiration behind it hits me. As for race choice, it's definitely a consideration, since it only makes sense that any character might lean towards what comes naturally to them. The most interesting options though are always the ones that don't make 100% sense, I try to strike a balance.

Let's look at the game "Dragons Dogma". You CAN focus on just one class (the game has an interesting play more as a class to improve stats system. Can swap midgame) but then you're basically killing even the toughest of foes in 10 seconds. Removing ALL challenge from combat altogether at end game. Meaning you're basically removing any end game challenge (forcing a new game with a new character). I on the other hand simply play as whatever class I like (used to be fighter) and adapt with what I have. Once the stats are capped I don't have to worry about being overpowered because I didn't aim for max damage (You know. Like all those other impatient people). I still have fun in fights that last. Basically I can adapt better. I don't WANT to kill enemies in 10 seconds in a game like that. when the focus in on real time action with enemies that aren't mobbing you over and over. That is BORING. That isn't even fighting. I. Want. The. Challenge. Provided I'm not getting slaughtered in 10 seconds in every fight. Unless a game is designed around that. Like Dark Souls for example. In THAT game I focus on endurance. Stats matter more. Vitality for weight and armor. Vigor for health of course. I block a lot, hence the high stamina. It's my "playstyle". And it's very amusing to see those idiots dodge rolling all over the place when I can easily block attacks even in PVP and not bat an eyelid and then easily run them through when they pretend they're "more skilled because roll". You might call it boring. I call it efficient, effective and immersive. Yes I'm holding block but I still leave myself exposed if I mistime attacks. And I have to be very careful with my hits. In PVE and boss fights I combine both blocking and dodging and it's pretty effective. "rollrollrollroll" is like "constant blocking". So anyone complaining when all they do is roll (with the same damn animation every single time I will add) is complaining about doing the same thing themselves anyway. It's hypocritical. It might be something different but it's still spammed over and over. This is why Sekiro was made. Combining blocking, deflecting AND dodging into one package. While ALSO focusing in having to improve stats to survive. Without coming at the cost of immersion and without becoming overpowered. Even once you start getting a bit ahead you can still ring the demon bell to make the game harder and take Kuro's charm to take damage on blocks instead of perfect deflects. Thereby prioritizing player skill over stats. This works in action games but you can't do the same thing in a RPG game. Not exactly at least.

In RPG games I always (and I mean ALWAYS) aim for whatever helps with conversations. Even at the cost of combat abilities (which can risk missing out on fun fighting if a game doesn't balance this well). I want to see multiple outcomes. I want to be understanding in conversations and find answers and find ways to work things out without having to be forced to fight. A good RPG game will allow this without having to sacrifice combat. And I should NOT have to be a fixed class (like a bard) to do that. Even a dumb orc barbarian should be able to learn how to be observant and know how people operate. What if they have a background of being raised in a different environment? It makes no sense to force persuade to cost two points instead of one just because of his race if he's been raised to be observant and diplomatic. Therefore in RPG games what determines what stat points cost should NOT be race but instead STARTING ENVIRONMENT. That is what determines if people have experience in an an area or not. Think of it like how Mass Effect does it. "Soldier background. Peaceful background." Or how Dragon Age did it. "Noble background. Poor background. Even if the same race." Heck, even Deekin from Neverwinter NIghts 1 was raised by a dragon (and can further become a half dragon hybrid. Red dragon disciple). So little options like these when making a character (how you was raised. etc) would go a long way. A good way to do that, and affect stat points in turn, would be to have the location matter first and foremost. Then "What was your past environment". Except people going JUST for stat points might focus on "just the stats" and not think of any "immersion" reasons (so... why are they playing an RPG game if they ignore the immersion? It makes no sense). Like "Would that be a past I might like to have or struggle with". But maybe these decisions aren't just background info. Maybe what you choose appears in the very game itself based on what you decide. Maybe you got too greedy and now lose stats later in the game because you was TOO powerful. Seriously, if you're going to play on easy mode then that should have repercussions. People fighting against the odds should get more rewards.

I also put stats into a stat like strength just so I can wear good looking armor. Just for style as well as practicality. But I shouldn't have to sacrifice my speech to do that either. The best fighters are sometimes the best diplomats. Because they can say why they fight. Any character, regardless of race or class, should be able to do TWO things effectively (fighting and talking. Or magic and fighting). Just one would be too limiting. Three would be too Mary sue (with exceptions).

Do you pick a door for a stat point and have someone die and miss story, character development and immersion (you can't resurrect them) or do you pick the door that plays it safe?

Do you talk to the dragon and come to an understanding and get a reward or kill it and claim its treasure? In order for this to be balanced it would make sense to have a high XP reward (or item of equal worth regardless of class) when talking things through peacefully to balance that out. To give incentive to people both "powergaming" as well as those that focus on immersion.

Can you imagine having to be a dev and figuring out how to balance the two in everything? Must be a nightmare.

Both ...
There are ofc. some races that are better in something, and i have to admit that i am reconcidering if my favourite character from other universe is not quite fitting the race/class combinations here ...

For example, one of mine personal favorized characters is Night Elf Rogue from WoW ...
At one hand, she should be Drow ... bcs, they are closer to Blizzard Nelfs visualy ... on the other hand Wood Elfs are, for one, better rogues, and for two, closer to Nelfs in lifestyle. :-/

Then i kinda like my Dwarf Paladin, also from WoW ...
But since i play holy with him, he seem to me more fitting as Life Cleric in this setting. :-/

And finaly Gnome Mage ... my absolutely most loved characted in last decade ... is she more Wizard, or Sorcerer?
Personaly i would more like Sorcerer, since they seem really interesting ... but gnomes make better Wizards. :-/

As for stats, there i play almost pure Builds ... i never thinked that character with 8int should be able to kill himself with his own weapon, or should have problem create full sentence so ... no isue here.

Hard to answer this one clearly; my favourite type of character for many years has been and remained a well-built paladin, and it is both the build and idea; from my point of view, the mortal epitome of divine power just should be given an edge above most of the folks around him. Yes, it is a privilege, and the duty both. The one who has received a lot should do his best to uphold his inner ideals, in word and deed. And if you can do what's right - more the power to you, even if others view you as a munchkin.

For other characters, I never go with a perfectionist mind, because sometimes I would prefer being "just one of the friends" for a camaraderie spirit.

Planning a tiefling sorc with lock as dipping class, but here's the thing, the warlock "dipping class" will not make him a warlock IC, it's meant to be an extension on him drawing on his fiendish heritage further than usual, IC, it will be completely himself, not some patron, who summons said power.
This does mean I'll have to limit abilities he can pick, further, there will be no warlock spells that can't be chalked up to hellish powers, no eldritch blast for example, but poison spray from Minauros or Armor of Agathys from Stygia, as well as fire spells from... most hellish planes, devil's sight as an improved version of the tiefling darksight, perhaps beastspeech if I can think of an excuse... and perhaps pact of the tome to get some other spells like ray of frost, fire bolt and guidance (not sure how to excuse guidance, but its something i really want, though)

I dunno. I loved Dragon's Dogma but I never got that. I just got pwned. Maybe it's because I didn't specialise, though I don't particularly recall and I often comment that I'm kind of arse at combat. But given the choice I'll always build my character rather than my stats: I briefly tried the power-gaming thing back in the Oblivion days and totally didn't enjoy it so I've tended to avoid it ever since.

Though the main thing I remember about Dragon's Dogma is being that idiot who decided to try to map Bitterblack Isle. I managed; with only a small degree of artistic licence...

Role playing always, first and foremost. When I do game the character a bit, it is usually with higher wisdom and intelligence so I don't miss out on any optional content (negotiations, hidden locations/items) which means my Rogues and Paladins tend to be as sickly as Doc Holiday from Tombstone since constitution pays for that.

Characters over stats because stats are maths equations and a character is immersive, i play game to enjoy myself not to win.. Thats a big reason i have issues with Larions games is they aren't designed to be enjoyed casually they are designed to meta and min max..

That to me personally is not a fun experience in gaming.

Try playing all the classes one by one as you learn about them through playing. I learned how to make effective use of the assassin once I unlocked their higher abilities. I quite like the counter moves that turn an enemy attacked against them. Or perfect blocking.

Takes some practice. But when you pull it off so many times it just clicks. You can only really get the effective use out of the classes once you've unlocked ALL the abilities though. You can always swap them around (key locations) so it's a bit different then how other games let you build up without being limited. You got more to use so it's finding the combinations that work well together.

Nothing so binary.

I come up with a concept of a character in my head. Personality, backstory, goals, arc etc.

Then I sit down at the drawing board and think how to best translate that concept into game mechanics while still being as effective and useful to the party as possible.

Contrary to what many people seem to think, you can have both.

Love early access events like BG3 is offering here to get a better idea how loose "builds" can be made to the "characters" id say i primarily make...

My "characters" are never bot type builds meant to pwn the game... but at the same time, in games such as this, imo build must be considered to a degree to get the most out of the game... and in a cooperative/MMO setting it must be considered to be able to provide at least one "main" function...

That said im a tabletop player and even my characters in computer/online games always have a way more developed background and personality than will ever come across in one... ;D

Llev

I do characters, but succumb to builds in the process just in an attempt to give those characters a chance; even if it doesn't always work out as intended. I'm a console gamer that has enjoyed various rpgs such as the Dragon Age franchise, The Witcher, Kingdoms of Amalur; Dragon's Dogma, plus other stuff like Mass Effect and the more recent Assassin's Creed entries.

Playing Baldur's Gate 3 is proving a learning curve, as this turn based approach is completely different from my other games. Frankly, I've gotten slaughtered a lot in this game, even if experiencing this makes me laugh through the frustration. I like what is here, but I sometimes wish that I actually new someone who understood this type of game to explain it to me?

I do a mix of both with a priority to roleplaying. I'm in the willpower self insert category. I only really like playing "what would I be like in this type of world". Don't want to play as anyone else but me. I don't like power gaming that much because I like the thrill of fighting and I hate one shot kills. It really destroys my enjoyment either dealing or receiving one shots. I have a strong background in math so I don't get "excited" by crunching numbers either.

Hell I saw a barbarian mod video earlier today and it convinced me to make a bear beast totem half elf with hermit background, skilled feat for rest of wisdom skills, and sentinel feat if added. Not exactly min max, but I will make the wisest but not necessarily the smartest barbarian ever. I like utility over damage so I really hope larian leans that way too.

roleplay characters -> powergame builds -> novelty builds

That's really interesting to me, as I've never done that. I never think about myself in a fantasy world, I always design wholly unique characters who are quite different from me. I do see a lot of streamers who make the characters in RPGs look like themselves, so maybe lots of people feel the same as you.





What's an example of a novelty build?

Well you can do real builds without multiclassing IMO
But to answer your Question I do both first min max the story thru second or more to get all storypolts I missed and enjoying the options

This is purely personal definition, but stupid stuff that you can get away with once you know the ins and outs of the mechanics but if you started your first playthrough with them it would just be frustraiting. Its like looping back to the roleplay stage once you know the story + mechanics well.

e.g.
Stupid themes and Single class parties: (e.g. 6 bards in IWD2)
Deliberately gimping yourself because you want to: (e.g BG2 solo enchanter)
Stuff that hurts you but you want to try anyway for "roleplay": (e.g. playing with funny stats - i like an 8str 8dex 8con wizard personally)
Gnomes