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#727607 04/11/20 02:16 PM
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I somehow remember this issue with Dos2, but I could be smoking crack. :P

So let me lay this out for you. Fighter in the door, cleric a few feet behind the fighter backing them up. Rogue off to the side going for sneak attack. Wizard is in the back looking for an opening to sling spells.

First round, enemy archers and mage rush the door, and within 1 round take the wizard down before he even got a chance to do anything....

Now, they ran into combat with a fighter and cleric right in front of them, but the WIZARD, all the way in the back, was their target? They essentially ran to their deaths by getting that close to the fighter and cleric, just to take the wizard out... I think in a real combat situation, and even in pen and paper d&d, you need to deal with the immediate threats first, which in this case would be the fighter and cleric, and then deal with the wizard once the other two are tied up.

I believe this type of AI removes the tactical aspect out of the game by making all wizards top priority regardless of threat assessment. What this means I have to do is hide the wizard for the first 2 rounds, until all ranged attackers are dealt with, then bring him out to, essentially, just mop up.

Not whining here. I just think the AI does need a bit f a tweek. smile

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There were already complaints about AI targeting lowest AC. It's not entirely stupid move. I have myself often targeting enemy mages in games because they can cause alot bad blood during fights. Wizardo are mostly squishy unless guarded by some powerful spell. However AI should adjust their tactic when there is some bottleneck like doors. It would be cool to have AI not jumping into fight like headless chicken but going sides and trying to clear the pathway 1st.

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I keep seeing this brought up, and once again I say that this didn't happen in my game.

Verte #727632 04/11/20 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Verte
There were already complaints about AI targeting lowest AC. It's not entirely stupid move. I have myself often targeting enemy mages in games because they can cause alot bad blood during fights. Wizardo are mostly squishy unless guarded by some powerful spell. However AI should adjust their tactic when there is some bottleneck like doors. It would be cool to have AI not jumping into fight like headless chicken but going sides and trying to clear the pathway 1st.



Agreed, I have done this also, unless there is a more immediate threat right in front of me (the fighter and cleric in this case). I can't foresee an archer charging to their doom (especially selfish bandits) just to take out the wizard for their compatriots. This is where the tactical maneuvers of setting up the tank and other threats in front of the wizard. If the AI is going to target them regardless, it kinda removes the concept of battle tactics.

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The AI (right now) tends to go for some combination of lowest AC and lowest hit points, but my Wizards typically run around with minimum 16 AC and relatively high Con so Shadowheart always gets geeked first because she's... poorly designed.

Love the Shadowrun reference by the way.

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I've seen this. AI typically targets Gale first if all of my party members are within range of them. But if in melee range with another character and would have to use disengage to get in range of Gale, then they sometimes just fight that other character. Yet at other times I've seen them disengage to move and target Gale. The funniest is AI that constantly moves the enemy up and down ladders during their turns, as if they can't decide where they want to be.


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I have never seen this behavior, but In the current combat implementation I don't know why you would not individual steath your characters into combat and keep your wizard in high ground/range. I can't think of a combat in the game where this is not possible.

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Originally Posted by whalesecrets
I have never seen this behavior, but In the current combat implementation I don't know why you would not individual steath your characters into combat and keep your wizard in high ground/range. I can't think of a combat in the game where this is not possible.


This is fine, if you already know where the fight is going to be and where the creatures are. First play through, where it's highly likely you are going to stumble into combat walking down a road, this isn't always possible. The ancient temple is a perfect example. The fight with the bandits inside the temple, there is no high ground, and stealthing is fine, but they overwhelm you quickly. If you need to reload 2-3 times just to get through a combat, I don't think that is a good design.

Another issue. This happened to me as well. Party member goes down, enemy is standing next to downed party member and the fighter. Enemy decides to attack the downed party member. In a real situation, or even in d&d pnp, the fighter is the more immediate target. Why would the enemy attack a character that is already downed, when there are others threatening it?

Again, just some AI tweaking.

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Ya AI is limited, I don't have this problem with my main solo game being a halfling rogue. But my multi game, one of the players plays a drow warlock with -8 con. He's always jumped first. Kind of funny watching all the enemies pummel on one target in round 1 each encounter.

Last edited by fallenj; 08/11/20 10:28 PM.
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Bandit temple fights, indoor and out, have easy win stealth methods, but I won't spoil it for you other than to tell you it's there.
I'm not sure about attacking things when their down, if we really want it to be realistic I think it depends on whats attacking. Would the bandits go after a more immediate threat, absolutely. Would an owlbear? It might just maul a downed character until it stopped wiggling.

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Terrible to attack a group of enemies with a fighter, only to have them walk past him and the entire party... Go up two ladders and attack the low AC wizard.

Another instance our cleric started a fight and they went through two doors and attacked the wizard who was just sitting in there lol. Then to hear people claim this is AI strategy is amazing. It is just simple run and gun to lowest ac on every single encounter. All enemies fight the exact same if they are melee.

Then you just pick up the wizard while they waste attacks on his infinite health. They all attack the wizard.... You pick him up giving him one hit point... and use the others to attack them... they attack the wizard on the ground the whole damn time. They ignore (cause the AI is not aware of its surroundings) the other players and continue to hit the Wizard only.

This was every single fight unless the wizard had higher ac than the rest of the party. Or unless it was a specific scripted fight there are 3 of those off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by IAmPageicus
Terrible to attack a group of enemies with a fighter, only to have them walk past him and the entire party... Go up two ladders and attack the low AC wizard.

Another instance our cleric started a fight and they went through two doors and attacked the wizard who was just sitting in there lol. Then to hear people claim this is AI strategy is amazing. It is just simple run and gun to lowest ac on every single encounter. All enemies fight the exact same if they are melee.

Then you just pick up the wizard while they waste attacks on his infinite health. They all attack the wizard.... You pick him up giving him one hit point... and use the others to attack them... they attack the wizard on the ground the whole damn time. They ignore (cause the AI is not aware of its surroundings) the other players and continue to hit the Wizard only.

This was every single fight unless the wizard had higher ac than the rest of the party. Or unless it was a specific scripted fight there are 3 of those off the top of my head.



As trained in medieval fighting and groups tactics, I can tell you that running your group into the middle of the enemy to attack a weaker foe, is not the best move to make. You get your group surrounded and are fighting back to back, at a disadvantage. The fact that this tactic is viable in this game is the point I'm trying to make. Yes, it's a video game, it's not real life, but groups tactics in this case, should try to mimic RL as close as possible, since this varey game is as much about battle tactics as much as role playing.


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