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It would be an interesting poll. I'd like to see a poll sent our to everyone asking the questions: 1) did you buy this because you were a fan of the BG series? 2) Did you buy this because you were a fan of the D&D ruleset? I'm guessing about 50 - 55 percent on 1 and 60 percent to 2/3rd on 2?

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I think it would be about 30% old Baldur's Gate fans, and 40% D&D 5e fans, with a lot of overlap between those two groups. I suspect around 50% (or more) of the game's buyers never played Baldur's Gate 1 or 2, and never played 5e D&D. But that's mostly just speculation and extrapolating from what I've seen from streamers and YouTubers playing the game.

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I think those are good estimates given that pool. I'm also thinking of the "unexpectedly popular" effect of the D&D name and adding percentages from another (admittedly imaginary) pool. When Beamdog released the EEs the downloads crashed their servers. And then crashed the backup servers.

Likewise the PoE1 pitch was "the spiritual successor to BG" and the PoE2 pitch was "continuation of PoE. One appeal was wildly popular, the other wasn't.

I do think you would need to ask D&D and not just 5th.

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Yeah a solid write up - a lot of effort & thought. I’m loving this game too if the rest of the game is at this standard & some of the core feedback is implemented it will be the D&D game .

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I honestly don't get the complaints about combat being house rules. I didn't play lots of PNP rpgs, but from what I've played (plus watching lots of sessions on YouTube) combat is really small part of the experience, and even if you follow the rules like a zealot, your players still have so much freedom that the rules don't really matter. Example: in some dnd session I saw in YouTube, there was a party fighting a giant mechanical beetle, and one party member decided to take his rope and do "empire strikes back" to it. A game could never account for those kind of decisions, so Larian's strategy is to find alternative ways to give players freedom. Specifically, with making the environment super interactive.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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I like the "empire strikes back" aspects of the game, really do. Shoving, boulders, chandeliers, crawling in rafters all good stuff.

But the "throw the water bottle and use ray of frost" isn't really that -- it's a repeat of the "crystalline cleric" build in DOS2. Fun, but from a different game.

How many times have you used hold person? Shield of faith? Bless? (minus with the ring or staff). Personally I think my barrels exploding to Shield of Faith casting ratio is something like 100 to 1. The use your spells / class features to get advantage is missing from the game.

I get your position -- if it's fun does it matter? For some it does if you were expecting one game and got another.

"So, ready to play hockey!"

"Great, you won't need that stick"

"No sticks?"

"Or pucks"

" . . ."

"Or goals. Instead we are going to practice some elegant, complicated maneuvers on ice"

"So, figure skating"

"No, no, homebrew hockey"

"Okay, well, not-figure skating sounds fun. But I'm hoping we can we play regular hockey next week?"


Fun, but not what was advertised.


Check out the "killing firkraag" videos on you tube. How to kill the dragon with a monk, wizard, paladin, ranger, thief etc. Each class uses a different strategy. Class and spell based combat instead of environment based combat.

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[quote=Sludge Khalid]Actually the survey has already been made

RESULTS
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgN2IAZi8Hho6X_7XpiW-0N_cUYEJvX8/view?usp=sharing - LARIAN

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sip8wb8Yu1-N1FC7dDY72RJewnu3hqvz/view?usp=sharing - REDDIT
[/quote]

What? Why?! I never saw this survey! Where and when was it posted?

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Great job, well done!
I agree with the biggest part of this.
Let's hope that Larian is willing to adjust few things...

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Originally Posted by Abits
I honestly don't get the complaints about combat being house rules. I didn't play lots of PNP rpgs, but from what I've played (plus watching lots of sessions on YouTube) combat is really small part of the experience, and even if you follow the rules like a zealot, your players still have so much freedom that the rules don't really matter. Example: in some dnd session I saw in YouTube, there was a party fighting a giant mechanical beetle, and one party member decided to take his rope and do "empire strikes back" to it. A game could never account for those kind of decisions, so Larian's strategy is to find alternative ways to give players freedom. Specifically, with making the environment super interactive.


The complaints is about how it upsets the action economy. A good GM would not let a player go all "empire strikes back" on something without expending a suitable amount of actions.

Also tripping creatures by way of rope could easily be implemented in-game by allowing us to use rope to trip enemies.


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Good list. Not 100% agreed, but most if it I can get behind.

Additions:
5. This is planned afaik.
10. A great suggestion, I never thought of it, but it seems obvious once you think about it.
20. I agree areas should be be re-searchable, but it would need to be balanced somehow. If you could just spam Search, Perception would be useless. I was thinking once per long rest, but you can also spam long rests...

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
I know that many people disagree with me about the house rules that Larian have implemented, most of which I actually like, or at least don't mind. It's almost all people who are into 5e D&D. I wonder how many of the actual complete audience of this game will be 5e D&D players. Based on Twitch streamers playing the game, it looks like a fairly small percentage. Ask some general video gamers who know nothing of D&D, "Would you like to be able to get away from an enemy, AND attack on your turn? Or just get away from the enemy and then do nothing else on your turn?" What do you think most of them are going to say?

I support your proposed changes. I favor the game itself over strict 5E D&D rules any day.

As such, I'm a gamer first, and a D&D fan second. Sure, I love D&D and played it back with the second edition known just as AD&D. But I'm not a hardcore real life RPer or anything. I only dabbled in it and then followed D&D mostly through computer games after that introduction to table top D&D. Some of my fondest gaming memories are the original gold box TSR/SSI AD&D games. Then Eye of Beholder series, Dark Sun series, Baldur's Gate, and Neverwinter Nights. I even veered off to enjoy other role playing series such as Ultima and Wizardry. I did the exact same with Battletech, where I really got into the table top experience, then played all of the games from Crescent Hawk series up to the latest Battletech game by HBS.

As such, I've always felt the game itself is more important than the adopted ruleset. What works in one setting doesn't always work the best in another.

Last edited by ciph; 06/11/20 03:26 PM.

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I never participated in such a survey. Never knew it existed. I'm sure the silent majority didn't participate in that either. Sounds like only the ones lucky enough to catch it and the hardcore fans who follow Larian's every announcement would participate.


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Originally Posted by ciph


I never participated in such a survey. Never knew it existed. I'm sure the silent majority didn't participate in that either. Sounds like only the ones lucky enough to catch it and the hardcore fans who follow Larian's every announcement would participate.


You sure the silent majority didn't participate in that either? How can u represent the so called majority lol.

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Originally Posted by dunehunter
Originally Posted by ciph


I never participated in such a survey. Never knew it existed. I'm sure the silent majority didn't participate in that either. Sounds like only the ones lucky enough to catch it and the hardcore fans who follow Larian's every announcement would participate.


You sure the silent majority didn't participate in that either? How can u represent the so called majority lol.


Guys, chill...
The research is live and you can use this very forum research button and look for “survey” and apply for it. It was done by me and we captured both Reddit and forum users.
That’s it.

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Originally Posted by Ectheldir
Really good list there!! While I do not think all of your requests are absolutely necessary (e.g. Addition 2 and 3 should probably be an either... or... at most), I still think this is a really well thought out list and agree (or at least understand) all of the points.

Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

20. Shadowheart's Mysterious Artifact keeps randomly moving to the main character's inventory on its own.

That makes it even more mysterious don't you think? wink



I think that Delay and Ready would both be nice to have, as you'd use them in different circumstances. With Delay, you could move your whole turn, in order to coordinate with your teammates. Like, I need to wait for Gale to cast Sleep on that thing, then I can run in and use Inflict Wounds on it for a big auto-crit. Or if you just want to let the enemies get closer before you take your turn, or something. With Ready, you can counter hit-and-run tactics or interrupt a creature during its turn. Both are not strictly necessary, but they would be nice to have.

That artifact is indeed quite mysterious...

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Originally Posted by HalfElfTiefling
Originally Posted by Zer0
While I don't agree with all of your points, I do appreciate the clear amount of effort and though you've put into this. Have a +1


I just want to second this as well. It must have take quite the effort to compile this list.

I would like to have Thrown Weapons implemented correctly. Right now everything does 1d4 + DEX. However, Thrown weapons such as daggers, hand axes and javelins should do 1d6 + STR.

I think Attack Of Opportunity should matter more in BG3 then as it stands and locking down the mobility of characters unless they have class features or feats that enable them to move around the battlefield more effectively. I'm sure there are many much more familiar with the 5E rules than I am and i'm sure they went into detail elsewhere on this site regarding this.



Proper thrown weapons would also be great. Right now I don't think STR or DEX is being added to thrown damage, and different weapon types don't do proper damage when thrown. Some things probably shouldn't do any damage at all when thrown. Right now I can throw a QUILL at someone and it does 1d4. Same as a dagger? I mean, I know the pen is mightier than the sword, but it should be quite so literal...

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Firesnakearies, thank you for the excellent work done!

I agree with almost all points, except:

42 OFFICIAL CHANGE REQUESTS:

"3. While we're at it, putting some kind of limit or cost to long resting would also be great. But I don't like timed quests, so I'm not asking for that specifically. Just something that makes us less likely to want to hit the “end day” button after every encounter. "

And immediately add the ability to disable this option. I don't want the game to push me to anything. I want to play, not work!

"4. Please reduce the number of searchable containers in the game world. Right now, there is an obscene number of them, and most of them are empty. Some players feel compelled to search everything, and it's honestly not fun at all with this density of searchable, empty containers. I'm not asking you to put things in them, there's already way too much stuff to take as it is. Just make the bulk of the empty ones un-searchable. "
And I like to ransack everything and I do not see this as a problem. Why do you want to deprive me of this? More things could be added: 1-2 gold coins, cheese, tomato. A trifle, but nice.

"12. Please allow us to walk through our own allies during combat. Obviously we wouldn't be able to stop inside their space, but moving through them would solve a lot of annoying situations where one character blocks every other character from getting to an area. "
Don't turn our allies into ghosts. I'm afraid of ghosts! Now the allies are occupying space, and this is logical. It requires you to calculate your moves in advance.

"14. Please upgrade the combat log both functionally and visually. It should remain at the size we set, it should not close itself without our permission, it should always start at the bottom rather than requiring us to scroll down to the bottom whenever we open it. Let us see the rolls in the log without having to mouse over, and show both die results whenever Advantage or Disadvantage is rolled. For a good idea of ​​how the combat log could be dramatically improved, please just look at Solasta's combat log and take some ideas from that. "
I agree with this, but I will add: you need to add the display of pop-up subtitles for allies and NPCs.

Last edited by Strix; 07/11/20 06:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
How many times have you used hold person? Shield of faith? Bless? (minus with the ring or staff). Personally I think my barrels exploding to Shield of Faith casting ratio is something like 100 to 1. The use your spells / class features to get advantage is missing from the game.


Once again you make huge assumptions that everyone thinks/plays like you. My belief is it's your $ and your game. Play it how you want. I define barrels and such as cheese and I dont use them. You seem to not like to cheese but do it anyway? I use Hold Person, SoF, Bless, Bane, Fairy Fire, etc. ALL THE TIME.

Isn't it cool that Larian made a game that we can play differently and still progress through the story?

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All good points. I agree with every single one of them!

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