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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Wow, 9 hours? My first playthough took literally 10 times as long as yours. I clocked in around 90 hours for Tyranny. Of course, the reasons for this are clear in my playthrough on YouTube, in which I (badly) voice acted every piece of dialogue from every character. I also have a very slow playstyle in general. I mean, my BG3 first playthrough was 103 hours, and I was NOT streaming/recording.

Similar to me (well, except without The Recording of Stuff). I prefer to take my time and explore, and re-explore to see if I've missed anything or just because I feel like it and want to look at the scenery, and to generally faff about and go on random tangents and stuff. Speed-runs are a real anathema to my play-style; as is the risk of doing quests in the wrong order...


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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
for one, i just want to say I absolutely loved SCL, now can someone please tell me where i can find NWN 2??? Ive looked on steam and to no avail... I haven't played tyranny but want to, and also is it worth it graphics wise to try shadowrun???



It was removed from Steam a few years back, have you tried GoG? NWN2 Complete


yo why was it removed from steam???








/

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Originally Posted by DayVlad73
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
for one, i just want to say I absolutely loved SCL, now can someone please tell me where i can find NWN 2??? Ive looked on steam and to no avail... I haven't played tyranny but want to, and also is it worth it graphics wise to try shadowrun???



It was removed from Steam a few years back, have you tried GoG? NWN2 Complete


yo why was it removed from steam???








/



Probably licensing reasons. That's why Fable 2 isn't on steam despite Fable and Fable 3 are there.

Last edited by Thrythlind; 05/11/20 05:16 PM.
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Originally Posted by vometia

Similar to me (well, except without The Recording of Stuff). I prefer to take my time and explore, and re-explore to see if I've missed anything or just because I feel like it and want to look at the scenery, and to generally faff about and go on random tangents and stuff. Speed-runs are a real anathema to my play-style; as is the risk of doing quests in the wrong order...



Yeah, this. You can't JUST talk to every NPC. You have to talk to every NPC multiple times, to see if there's new dialogue. And sometimes I do spend a long time looking at scenery.

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Agree totally

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by vometia

Similar to me (well, except without The Recording of Stuff). I prefer to take my time and explore, and re-explore to see if I've missed anything or just because I feel like it and want to look at the scenery, and to generally faff about and go on random tangents and stuff. Speed-runs are a real anathema to my play-style; as is the risk of doing quests in the wrong order...



Yeah, this. You can't JUST talk to every NPC. You have to talk to every NPC multiple times, to see if there's new dialogue. And sometimes I do spend a long time looking at scenery.


I've bounced off Tyranny because all marketing was "play an evil character" and that's just not where my fun times lie. Dark story, I can do with...but not flat out villain.

Last edited by Thrythlind; 05/11/20 05:18 PM.
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is it fun to play??? like does obsidian actually tell a good story??? also is there a campaign if so is it long

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Originally Posted by Thrythlind

I was thoroughly disappointed with MoW, but otherwise, I loved NWN2 and NWN1...definitely VTM:Bloodlines

MoW was a bit messy, storywise, but I loved that there was a viable path for evil characters. Because of this it will always be one of my favorites. I've played too many RPGs where helping needy NPCs was what it seems all about. It's starting to be annoying how they all wait around for a hero to show up to solve their problems.

Originally Posted by Thrythlind

You might want to look toward a YouTube stream by the name of Kikoskia. He did Ultima 7. Serpent Isle, Ultima 1, Ultima Underworld, Ultima Underworld 2, Ultima 8, and (recently) Ultima 9. He also did NWN, NWN: SoU, NWN: HoU, Lands of Lore (twice), Lands of Lore 2, Lands of Lore 3, Anvil of Dawn, BG1, and BG2.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_ADhkBQFudvyhdpsBJJvYw

He does a lot of older games and RPGs, actually. Very pleasant, laid back man, generally doesn't have a cross-word to say about games he plays (won't LP games he won't enjoy), but he is lovingly heavy on lampshade hanging.

Good to see some people still play the old classics. To me they didn't stand the test of time very well, I still remember them fondly but I won't play them again. It simply wouldn't be the same.

Originally Posted by Thrythlind

Ouch on Cyberpunk and Bloodlines. As to the others yeah, combat was the most annoying part of Pillars. RTWP is something I'm fine with in some games, but not so much in an RPG. I recently played about an hour or two of Divinity 2 because people kept saying how this game is just that over again, but to be honest, I don't much feel it beyond a love for starting people on failing ships and beaches....In any case, Divinity didn't hold me the way BG3 has. It's very much "okay, this is a thing that exists". I think the whole "society believes super powers are evil / super powers are actually evil" story hook turned me off immediately.

Pretty much the same thing on DOS2. I didn't finish it past the 2nd act. The game in a way felt a bit masochistic. The characters/companions didn't feel relatable and I didn't like playing them. Maybe it was the origin system. And the combat felt repetitive. I got bored with it pretty fast.

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They have the complete NWN2 on gog for 20 american bux so imay do it just because but honestly if it lags like NWN remastered does i probably wont touch it because of the way it runs ...I just hope it runs better than the 1st one which I bought for xbone 1 these were of course pre PC days... ha I mean does it have better dated graphics than NWN1???

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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe

Pretty much the same thing on DOS2. I didn't finish it past the 2nd act. The game in a way felt a bit masochistic. The characters/companions didn't feel relatable and I didn't like playing them. Maybe it was the origin system. And the combat felt repetitive. I got bored with it pretty fast.


A lot of this, yeah. The BG3 companions so far are fairly abrasive-ish...but not in a way that annoys me as a person consuming fiction. The companion/origin characters for DOS2 just felt......annoying. In general.

I LIKE the companions in BG3 for the most part. But the ones in DOS2....just...irritating.

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Originally Posted by DayVlad73
They have the complete NWN2 on gog for 20 american bux so imay do it just because but honestly if it lags like NWN remastered does i probably wont touch it because of the way it runs ...I just hope it runs better than the 1st one which I bought for xbone 1 these were of course pre PC days... ha I mean does it have better dated graphics than NWN1???


NWN 1 = Aurora engine
NWN 2 = Electron engine = upgraded Aurora engine

It looks a bit better imo but it's still dated compared to 2020. Don't know about lag I never had problems with either game. But if NWN 1 lagged for you than this one probably will lag too.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Yeah, this. You can't JUST talk to every NPC. You have to talk to every NPC multiple times, to see if there's new dialogue. And sometimes I do spend a long time looking at scenery.

Something I played recently (I forget what exactly; Greedfall, maybe?) pretty much ensured you had to do this as you'd miss so much dialogue if you didn't go all Columbo on the NPCs!

Originally Posted by Thrythlind
I've bounced off Tyranny because all marketing was "play an evil character" and that's just not where my fun times lie. Dark story, I can do with...but not flat out villain.

Evil situation, but not necessarily an evil character. I find it difficult to do the latter but found Tyranny mostly rewarding to play in that I still got to do my own thing. Yeah, you have to play within the system and side with one of two variously disagreeable factions but it doesn't mean you have to sell out to the evil side.

Last edited by vometia; 05/11/20 06:18 PM. Reason: messed up attributions D:

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Wow so many great comments. Some comments about comments:

Vampire: redemption and vampire bloodlines - very different games, both worth a try. I think bloodlines is better, and generally one of the best RPG games ever made (thank god for fans). Just don't play it without unofficial patch.

Dragon's Dogma - from the team that made Devil May Cry 3-5 (one of the only non RPG game series I'm a fanatic fan of), Dragon's Dogma is a great action RPG, with interesting story concepts and cool but half baked mechanics. I really hope a sequel is on the way.

About the Witcher 3 - I can see why people would consider it the best RPG of all times, and I don't think there's anything invalid about it. But I find it hard to pick a game where you can't create your own character as the best.

Let's talk companions - I really love some of kingmaker companions and find them to be quite unique. I also can't leave Jolee bindo out of any self respecting companion list


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Greedfall was an.....interesting RPG....very pretty some interesting systems....but well,

So, on Loading Ready Run's Let's Nope stream....Adam Savidan and Ben Ulmer like to open their stream with warning people that horror games often try to make use of mental issues for story purposes and often handle it in very clumsy ways that can be full of unfortunate implications. They especially use the metaphor of trying to stuff a large object through a hole that's too small and saying "Why won't you fit?!"

And that feels like what happened with Greedfall and colonialism. It feels there was an honest attempt to do handle the subject matter, but they sort of lost energy for it half-way through and the result is somewhat...ehh?

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Tyranny pushed me to read Black Company series (not very popular dark fantasy books in my country) after I found out Soulcatcher was inspiration for the Voices of Nerat. So good to have games like this.

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also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES

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Originally Posted by DayVlad73
also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES


Hard choice, to be honest, I like all of them very much.

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Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES


Hard choice, to be honest, I like all of them very much.

OK WHICH ONE HAS MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK THE LONGEST AND BEST STORY

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Originally Posted by DayVlad73
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES


Hard choice, to be honest, I like all of them very much.

OK WHICH ONE HAS MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK THE LONGEST AND BEST STORY


As a note, capslock is a bit unneccessary.

NWN2 will get you the Original Campaign, Mask of the Betrayer (which is very good), Storm of Zehir (which I haven't played yet), and Mysteries of Westgate (which is meh but short). And also access to lots of modules made by a very community. (I played a rebuild of Icewind Dale on NWN2 and there's a relatively well known rebuild of Baldur's Gate that I think was put together by one of the original BG1 devs.)

Shadowrun Returns is about 10 hours of content but there may also be a number of custom community modules (haven't delved into it much...I haven't actually done the official expansion module.) Shadowrun: Dragonfall and Shadowrun: Hong Kong have improved game play and are about 28 - 33 hours or so. They also have the ability to run community modules...and again, I haven't tapped into that much yet. But you have to buy each game separately and I'm not sure what they sell for right now.

Vampire the Masquerade has some of the best level-design I've encountered in games and is just hugely well designed in terms of atmosphere and feel. But there's no expansions (there's a fan-made "Final Nights" mod but it's just the same story with a different set of clans available and a handful of very small side-quests...there's also a fan-made mod which lets you turn some of the mortals in the game into vampires....but I haven't messed with that mod. It feels a bit like it promises too much. Also note that the game as sold has some huge issues that make it hard to start up. The unofficial patch is pretty much necessary to play it and though the issue isn't anymore involved than installing games in the 90s would have been and you only really have to deal with it the first time you install it and get it running.

My suggestion would be probably to put them on wishlist and keep an eye on when they go on sale.

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Oh man, this could be a loooooong conversation.

My first computer RPG was Diablo. I played that series obsessively. Diablo 2 and 3 were both a little rough when they first launched, but by the time they got the expansions out and refined things further, they had become the quintessential loot-based action RPGs. It's also one of the few RPGs I like playing with multiplayer since I largely think of RPG video games as single player games.

Next I got Fallout and that was a revelation. I adore the first two Fallout games and I think they're still the best in the series. Fallout 3 came around and was very different and lacking in the humor, wit, and style of the first two, but I still sunk hundreds of hours into it. New Vegas was even better in most respects, but Fallout 4 was a let down for me because I felt that Bethesda had taken away the role playing aspect of the game by forcing you to play their limited character. They trick you by putting in a character creator and then railroad you so hard. I hated the Institute storyline and I felt that synths did not fit into the Fallout universe. Also the focus on base building was not compelling in the least to me and my OCD couldn't stand not being able to align items to a grid. Fallout 76 I won't touch with a ten foot pole.

Morrowind was a neat, original place to explore but I never felt compelled to get very far in the story and I thought the character progression system was awful (jump everywhere to raise your skills!). It was more like a fantasy Grand Theft Auto where you just played the game to dick around. Oblivion I liked more -- especially the Shivering Isles which might be my favorite Elder Scrolls thing ever. Skyrim I liked even more and they finally switched to a more sane character progression system. Overall, I like exploring Bethesda games, but the writing and storytelling have never been very strong, IMO. Also I don't think it's cute that Bethesda leans into their reputation of making buggy games and try to play it off like it's charming. It's not; fix your damn game engine and try giving your games some polish for once.

I really like the Dragon Age series. The first one was great and was a very promising start for a new RPG series in a new setting. I would go back and replay it again if the PC version had controller support because I don't like playing games with keyboard and mouse. (Sorry, Morrigan and Leliana.) I find it unfortunate that DA2 was rushed by EA and that it subsequently has a bad reputation. Despite a lot of content being reused, I think they made the best with what little time they had. Magic in combat felt better than the first game and I really love some of the companions from DA2 like Varric and Isabela. Inquisition was mostly excellent. If they had significantly toned down the resource gathering that made me stop to pick up stuff constantly, then I would like it even more. Otherwise, I've got few complaints other than the Frostbyte engine being so poorly optimized that it requires brute force power to make the game playable at a good frame rate and resolution. Here's to hoping DA4 doesn't suck.

I enjoyed the first three Mass Effect games too (didn't bother with Andromeda). There are lots of areas to improve (inventory management, boring planet traversal in ME1, more interesting skills and powers) but I dug what BioWare was going for and the soundtrack was rad. As far as the controversial ME3, I played it after they released the expanded ending and I think it concluded fine. Not incredible, but I wasn't part of the angry mob against it. Hopefully the rumors of a remastered trilogy are true since the original PC versions kinda suck.

Baldur's Gate was my first introduction to D&D and I ate it up. BG2 improved on everything and is a masterpiece in my eyes. The Icewind Dale games (both very similar, just one uses 2e rules and the other 3e) are very fun combat focused dungeon crawlers. Planescape: Torment is one of the most original games I've ever played and I find the whole conceit of being The Nameless One to be very interesting. Just a fantastic game, that one. If you've got the patience to read, you'll be rewarded greatly.

Neverwinter Nights I thought was a big step down from the Infinity Engine games. The 3D graphics were ugly then and are even uglier now (despite EE improvements to lighting). Movement and exploration was more frustrating because now you had to babysit a camera. I didn't like any of the companions or the limited party space and I did not find the story compelling at all in any of the modules. I've only played a few hours of NWN2 and gave up. I remember the controls and camera being even worse. Still, these games are way better than that "free" to play Neverwinter game that's out now. The game wanted me to pay $60 to play as a Dragonborn and then it plays like some awful combination of EverQuest and Kingdom Hearts. Not worth anyone's time. The D&D license under Atari and Hasbro has just produced garbage video games so far. Will BG3 be the first D&D to game break this cursed chain of failures? We'll see...

I couldn't stand The Witcher 1, put maybe 10 hours into the second one, and then went whole hog on the third. Despite combat being so-so, to me The Witcher 3 is the best RPG of the last generation. The storytelling and voice work are top notch and I love, love, love how the game handles monsters. I've waited for years for a game to make me feel like I was battling Meg Mucklebones from Ridley Scott's Legend. TW3 nails atmosphere and making you feel like you're hunting unique monsters. Then on the other side of things you've got the beautiful countryside in Blood and Wine to play around in as you bring Geralt to the end of his adventures. I'm also still impressed with the way the game makes you feel like you're traveling through a real forest with the way trees bend in the wind and such. Simply marvelous.

The first Pillars of Eternity is a little bland and some of the classes I didn't find interesting, but I enjoyed it and the second game even more. PoE2 felt much fresher with the nautical pirate theme and I felt like I had a better sense of the world of Eora -- or at least its pantheon of gods. Plus, they finally added the ability to play Turn Based combat in addition to Real Time with Pause. That in and of itself deserves praise (especially since the debate between the two systems is so contentious).

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is wonderful. I'm in the sixth and final part of the Adventure Path and I think I have enjoyed this game more than any other that tried to follow in the footsteps of Baldur's Gate. It just does so many things right and brings a bunch of quality of life improvements to the genre while giving you the chance to play something new with the whole kingdom management aspect. I installed some mods to alleviate my anxiety with time-based quests and I still see several areas where the game could use some polish, but for a first time game from a small studio, I am super impressed and gladly went ahead and backed the upcoming Wrath of the Righteous. The alpha has actually been super stable for me so far and I love being able to bring up the bug report tool in the game. Very smart stuff.

I've got maybe 70 hours across the entire Divinity franchise. To me, they were always C level games that were kind of interesting once you had played through all the big A and B level games and were looking for something else. (And seemingly nobody seems to praise or even be aware of the Divinity games before Original Sin?) DOS1 I gave up on because I hated the controls (this was before they added controller support) and the story and setting were not interesting. Plus there's just too much useless crap thrown about everywhere (something the Elder Scrolls is also guilty of). DOS2 I have put the most time into, but I don't like it very much. I felt like the game was trying to punish me the entire time I was playing it by putting surfaces everywhere which would make my characters move slowly or trip and fall. Then every spell seems to leave surfaces too and I found that got old really, really quick. Then the writing was average at best and party movement and inventory management was clunky as hell. I'm sad that I failed to see why people love this game.

I never made it very far in Temple of Elemental Evil because the game is just unfinished and broken, but the TB combat seemed fairly good. Arcanum seemed OK, but I never made it far there either. Tyranny came out at the wrong time for me to want to play an evil character. Torment: Tides of Numenera hasn't seen much play time from me and I couldn't get into Wasteland 2.

For JRPGs, Chrono Trigger, EarthBound, and Final Fantasy (5, 6, 7, 9) are my favorites. I don't enjoy playing JRPGs as much ever since they started introducing voice acting into games. Tea kettle voiced characters and overly naïve innocents (Colette from Tales of Symphonia) get on my nerves like crazy. A benefit of the smaller storage size of the older JRPGs is that they had to edit the script so they couldn't just spew line after line of inconsequential dialogue. With those space limitations removed, JRPGs went overboard with bad story pacing and overly long cutscenes as if nobody had an editor telling them to reel things in. And I guess that's how we get a burning trash heap of a story like Kingdom Hearts. There are still some good JRPGs that come out though. Persona 4 and 5 have good stories with interesting characters even if I think the combat is super boring once you figure out you can get free turns by exploiting elemental weaknesses.

I could go on and on, but I feel I've already written too much.

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