Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
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As i've already said, BG3 has the worst casting on D&D adaptations, you fell far weak and worthless than unmodded nwn2, which is the second worst game to be a caster(and good if you use spell fixes mod)

1 - Increase the lv cap.

First due the ultra low lv cap, you can't cast powerful spells. Despite an epic campaign which starts with an mindflayer spelljammer ship fighting an draconic army, and can reach underdark on chapter 1(btw you only enter on underdark on chapter 5 of bg2:soa which is a adventure that starts at lv 7 if you are a mage and soloing, you can reach past lv 10 on the first chapter).

We wanna dungeons & dragons, not dungeons & kobolds. I wanna fight dragons and fell powerful. Part of the appeal of D&D is to be a power fantasy. High level spells on 5e are already extremely weaker than 2e which are the edition for BG1/2. Why remove then too?

2 - remove the summon limit or make 3.5e animate dead rule.

It just kills the fantasy of being a necromancer... Back on 3.5e, animate dead had the rule which you can control your caster level * 2 hit dice of undead. So your lv 10 necromancer can control 20 hit dice 1 skeletons, but could't control 4 more powerful undead with more than 5 hit dices.

All games which features it has mods which removes summon limit " but you cannot control more than 2*Caster Level HD of undead. Those in excess will be removed from your control." https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/warlock-reworked-102g

3 - More pacts for warlocks and make eldritch blast purple

Like Lurker of the Deep(UA) http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/warlock:lurker-in-the-deep-ua

[Linked Image]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_LF7Idv_Qs

And eldritch blast should be purple.

Originally Posted by "forgotten realms wiki"
"When a warlock cast eldritch blast he created and fired from his hands or implement a purple bolt[1] or beam[3][4] of crackling destructive energy. Like similarly simple spells, eldritch blast could be cast as many times as its caster desired.[3][1][4]"
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eldritch_blast


4 - MAKE HP BLOAT OPTIONAL

The rule lower AC/ higher HP should be optional, so people who wanna a more faithful(even if unbalanced) game can play that way. I don't wanna bullet sponge enemies.

5 - FIX THE UI

The UI is clearly not made with vancian magical system nor 5e magical system. Make something more akin to Solasta with heighten spells Or like ToEE. Having 9 versions of the same spell on the bar when you will rarely heighten the spell is not good.

Or you can make like Wizardry UI to heighten spell

6 - BETTER ROBES

Makes better robes for unarmored casters. If was up to me, Robes inspired by Gothic games would be amazing. This is from ret 2.0 necromancer robes.

[Linked Image]

But of course, adapted into D&D. Robes from Thay, Netherese, etc; would be amazing. Robes of Vecna from BG2 would be a huge thing too

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Robe_of_Vecna


Last edited by SorcererVictor; 04/11/20 07:26 PM.
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1. The level cap won't be 10, but it won't be 20 either. They're not going to change it based on forum posts, it will end up being a function of the content in the game. We've seen dragons at level 1 and 4, and I don't know of any kobolds.

2. This should be changed to work with 5e rules. That will be more than what is currently allowed, but it won't be using 2e or Diablo 2 rules.

3. More pacts would be nice, as well as the Hexblade subclass. Customizable EB color would be a nice-to-have, but the spell does not specify purple.

4. This should be fixed as part of overall changes to the base game's balance, not left as an option.

5. Agreed. I'm assuming that it's temporary, Larian tends to change the UI over the course of EA, but the system right now isn't very good.

6. Not something I'd put in the list of top 10 most important issues, and certainly not something I'd consider as something as contributing to "worst casting on D&D adaptations".

Also, I despise your hashtag.

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Make Magery Great Again? Really? Damn Victor, you never fail to make me laugh. Keep it up.

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I mean, I'm all for better robes that don't look like a collection of my granny's night dresses (you know, maybe even versions with PANTS!) but I'm not really sure I'd take Gothic, of all things, as a model of the concept done right.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
It just kills the fantasy of being a necromancer... Back on 3.5e, animate dead had the rule which you can control your caster level * 2 hit dice of undead. So your lv 10 necromancer can control 20 hit dice 1 skeletons, but could't control 4 more powerful undead with more than 5 hit dices.

All games which features it has mods which removes summon limit " but you cannot control more than 2*Caster Level HD of undead. Those in excess will be removed from your control." https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/warlock-reworked-102g





Yes, this is the kind of thing that spoils the fun of necromancy in The Elder Scrolls, and not only there. We need more undead, to do it so that there is a balance and a limit depending on the power of the wizard and not just "1 skeleton and that's it" is not difficult.


Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove!
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Originally Posted by Stabbey

1. The level cap won't be 10, but it won't be 20 either. They're not going to change it based on forum posts, it will end up being a function of the content in the game. We've seen dragons at level 1 and 4, and I don't know of any kobolds.



dragons and archdruids on BG3 are lv 4. But people say dungeons & kobolds, not cuz there are kobolds in the game, but to mock low level games.


Originally Posted by Stabbey

2. This should be changed to work with 5e rules. That will be more than what is currently allowed, but it won't be using 2e or Diablo 2 rules.



The rule that I mentioned is 3e but I din't suggested it to BG3, just said as an example of a rule which allow the necromancer to chose between quality. quantity and anything in between.

The summon cap on BG2 is 5 and is not present on 2e. IMO is a awful rule. You can command 5 powerful Efreets but not 6 weak skeletons.


Originally Posted by Stabbey

6. Not something I'd put in the list of top 10 most important issues, and certainly not something I'd consider as something as contributing to "worst casting on D&D adaptations".



This is not that important, but you will spend dozens if not hungrets of hours looking into your char. So how he dresses is important IMO.

---------------

About lurker of the deep WLK, I would love it despite being unlikely to see a UA class into the game, mainlyu cuz how much water is negleted in RPG's in general. On BG2, you can summon Efreets, Djins but not Marrids. On NWN2, they destroyed Chilling Tentacles invocation...

Originally Posted by Tuco
I mean, I'm all for better robes that don't look like a collection of my granny's night dresses (you know, maybe even versions with PANTS!) but I'm not really sure I'd take Gothic, of all things, as a model of the concept done right.



Well, if your grandma has an dress with Beliar's symbol and demoniac inscriptions, then she is probably a Witch. hu3hu3hu3 just kidding. Don't take it seriously.

But I agree that Pents would be more appropriate.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
[
Yes, this is the kind of thing that spoils the fun of necromancy in The Elder Scrolls, and not only there. We need more undead, to do it so that there is a balance and a limit depending on the power of the wizard and not just "1 skeleton and that's it" is not difficult.


There are mods to allow multiple summons on most TES games.

IMO the best games in summoning mechanics are Geneforge which is a game ONLY about artificial creation of life. And G2 - returning 2.0. You as a necro can reanimate a huge army? Yes. But you need to maintain then with mana since they aren't natural creations. The strongest demon which you can create require that you learn demonology, higher demonology, gather a lot of reagents and improve your spell by a lot with expensive reagents like demoniac essences(you need higher runestone, demoniac heart and some jewelry only to make the spell) and then, costs 30 mana per second, the same cost of spear of darkness( circle 3 spell) per second. Having a small demoniac/undead army can make you waste all of your most expensive potions in a mater of minutes... And note that mana potions on G2 - ret require that you finish a drinking animation and then, regenerates your health/mana slowly, only the most expensive potions regens instant after the drink animation. The mana regen skill regens even slower and require 10k gold and second magical circle to Vatraz or whatever is instructing magic to you to teach you. There also was the risk of losing control over undead. But it was buggy and removed.

Of course, this can't work in a game which uses a completely different magical system, like Vancian and adapted 5e Vancian is.

5e sadly doesn't have all epic creatures which you can reanimate as a necro.

My unique fear is that an summon army will destroy the game speed. MAybe implementing a "concurrent turns" for then could solve that problem.

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5e sadly doesn't have all epic creatures which you can reanimate as a necro? Red dragon can be raised like a bone dragon, for ex. Or not?


Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove!
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
5e sadly doesn't have all epic creatures which you can reanimate as a necro? Red dragon can be raised like a bone dragon, for ex. Or not?


Only IF the DM allows it.

But in general, you can only get low CR zombies/skeletons.

On 5e, wotc not only took alway OHK spells like Finger of Death and Wail of The BAnshee but also took alway more powerful summons and was able to create powerful undead ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createGreaterUndead.htm )

Old editions also had a lot of animating spells
Animate dead
Create ancient dead
Create baneguard
Create crypt servant
Create crypt thing
Create death tyrant
Create direguard
Create shade
Create undead
Create undead minion
Create watchghost
Undeath after death

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 04/11/20 11:05 PM.
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How about some robes that don't look like they were designed for Gandalf in the 70's?


In regards to summoning I'd rather not see these crazy summons, I think that things kinda spiral out of control when you can turn into dragons etc.
I mean I don't care about realism and all that it's not about that, but it just kinda makes villains and such feel less threatening imo.
Like you're fighting this knight who's supposed to be really strong but then you turn into or summon a dragon + your party members and you just gang up on him, it sorta feels silly to me thematically.

For example if in Warcraft 3, WoW or whatever you had Finger of Death like Archimonde and could insta kill everything at will.
It'd sorta detract from the threat of Archimonde and make him feel less threatening.

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Originally Posted by Svalr
How about some robes that don't look like they were designed for Gandalf in the 70's?


In regards to summoning I'd rather not see these crazy summons, I think that things kinda spiral out of control when you can turn into dragons etc.



You will not see "crazy" summons cuz :
1 - 5e doesn't have rules for powerful summons like 3.5e and pathfinder has. No create greater undead for eg
2 - Even if Larian homebrews that rules, takes a very long time to reach that level.

Even on Pathfinder Kingmaker, a Sorcerer only gains the power to become a dragon at lv 13.

And on nwn2, with spell fixes, the strongest summon which you can summon is
[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by Svalr
I mean I don't care about realism and all that it's not about that, but it just kinda makes villains and such feel less threatening imo.
Like you're fighting this knight who's supposed to be really strong but then you turn into or summon a dragon + your party members and you just gang up on him, it sorta feels silly to me thematically.


Again, depends on the level. An single knight should't be threatening to a lv 15+ party. An deathknight with a lot of servants, artifacts, auras and other supernatural stuff, yes. Should be. And note that every spell that a PC can cast, an NPC can cast. In fact, a lot of creatures that are low CR on 5e are extremely dangerous on previous editions. The most notable example is succubus, she had a lot of nasty abilities and could summon and command the demons that she created corrupting humans, which means that she always can with high rolls, summon an freaking Balor. And you don't fight a Balor as a low level party. You run and try to minimize the causalities.

Originally Posted by Svalr

For example if in Warcraft 3, WoW or whatever you had Finger of Death like Archimonde and could insta kill everything at will.
It'd sorta detract from the threat of Archimonde and make him feel less threatening.


WoW has NOTHING to do with D&D, except 4e.

But isnta kill spell doesn't exist on 5e and can be resisted by N means on previous editions.

And on 5e, most ""bosses"" has legendary resistances, making impossible to OHK demon lords like you can do on BG2.

And BTW, a necromancer can make the enemy does the save vs death with -8 penalty(2 from specialization, 2 from the spell and 4 from greater malison), essentially making a enemy that needs to roll 2 needing to roll 10.

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 05/11/20 01:17 AM.
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I'm just imagining the "Snow White" build of beastmaster ranger where she has five dwarf companions and every one of the ranger familiars summoned.

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When I said '' knight '' I meant someone who's supposed to be a genuine threat story wise, so sure a death knight or something.
My overall point was that thematically I don't think that your character should be spiraling out of control to the point that they're basically endgame bosses themselves.
THEMATICALLY, not stat and gameplay wise necessarily.

That's why I used the Archimonde example too.
Gameplay is one thing, but thematically Finger of Death in regards to him is supposed to make him come across as really powerful and threatening, if you give an ability like that to the player even if it doesn't work against the strongest enemies it sorta detracts from the awesomeness of the villain.


It was more of a response to OneManArmy anyways.

Last edited by Svalr; 05/11/20 01:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by Svalr
When I said '' knight '' I meant someone who's supposed to be a genuine threat story wise, so sure a death knight or something.
My overall point was that thematically I don't think that your character should be spiraling out of control to the point that they're basically endgame bosses themselves.
THEMATICALLY, not stat and gameplay wise necessarily.


It was more of a response to OneManArmy anyways.


What you consider "end game boss"? Having an group of undead is not "end game boss" in any D&D game. You fight a lot of necromancers with hordes of undead on the first chapter of nwn2 oc...

Because when you have powerful summons and spells on pfkm, you are actually fighting things like the Spawn of Rovagug, which believe or not, was ludicrous hard.

On might & magic vi, every devil is a master of fire magic and can cast rain of meteors, fireballs, etc; with no necessity to worry about team damage cuz they are immune to fire and you face hordes of then. Devil Kings, casts incinerate, the strongest single target damage fire spell and can deal 14d15 damage to you.

On G2 - returning, when you learn circle 4 magic from Saturas/Xardas/wathever you convinced to teach magic to you, you face dragons which has circle 6 magic and can make rain fire, deal ludicrous high damage with breath weapons alone, enough to 2HK me, summon powerful elementals, regen his health in a alarming rate(...)

On BG2, you see NPC's casting stop time far before you can ever dream of casting stop time and ToB is IMO far harder than SoA despite ToB being higher level since you fight far more godlike beings.

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 05/11/20 02:12 AM.
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+1 content

-1 hashtag

Perhaps not the best timing.

I'm indifferent on the robes although this might a good time to mention how much I hate the 80s / Miami Vice color scheme of the poisoners robe.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
+1 content

-1 hashtag

Perhaps not the best timing.

I'm indifferent on the robes although this might a good time to mention how much I hate the 80s / Miami Vice color scheme of the poisoners robe.


The hashtag was only to draw attention

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Other thing that would be great, is if BG3 was easily moddable like nwn2.

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It seems pretty easily moddable, just based on how many mods there already are for it.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
It seems pretty easily moddable, just based on how many mods there already are for it.


On nwn2, you can literally recompile the code of most spells. If you know the basics of structured programming, you can change a lot how things are.

The devs picked black tentacles/chilling tentacles and nerfed the Caster Level + 8 BAB to hit to a fix +5 turning it worthless against highly armored enemies? Any freshman on programming 101 can fix this problem. BG2 in other hands is extremely hard to mod. WeiDU is pretty hard and confusing to be used. I know cuz I tried to learn how to mod BG2 and failed miserably. NWN2 also has a lot of player made campaigns. Is not like "dungeon master" mode in other games, there are conversions from P&P modules and far more content. Despite BG2 being my favorite game, the amount of player created content makes me have played far more NWN1/2.


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