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Originally Posted by Niara


Yeah, art... they sure are *pretty*. Not a lot of fan-fiction yet though. Funny that. I've seen lots of people fawn over Shadow's visuals... haven't seen much in the way of people talking about what they like about Shadow herself though.



So me and some friends are doing NaNoWriMo this year, as we often do. For those that don't know that is a writing competition of sorts in which you write 50,000 words in a month.

One of them has been writing BG3 fanfiction pretty much non-stop because of how much she adores the characters.

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Originally Posted by Niara


Agreed. Shadow just really goes that extra unnecessary mile of insult, abuse and belittlement... What about her do you like, if I might ask? Sell me on a good reason why I should voluntarily subject myself to several hours and multiple conversations filled with nothing but abuse, condescension, belittlement and insults; that's not something I enjoy, personally, so sell it to me: what is it about her that makes that a rewarding, enjoyable experience for you? (I am, in all honesty, curious here, with no ill intention or raised ire)



Okay, mostly I like Shadowheart because she reminds me a lot of real people that I have been friends with and dated. She comes across to me as a wounded, damaged person who is trying to cover up her pain and uncertainty with a brittle outer shell of standoffishness and lies. I have a iot of sympathy for people like that, because underneath their rudeness and duplicity is just another vulnerable human being who wants to feel safe. I think she's a subtle, layered character. To me, it seems clear that she is performing her "evilness", that it makes her uncomfortable, that really she just loves animals and wants to belong somewhere. Have you done the scene with her after the party where you share a bottle of wine and she opens up some? She seems so lonely, because she's been recruited into this deeply evil cult who demand that their members give up everything about themselves, all of their hopes and dreams. They wiped her memory, so she doesn't even know who she was before, and I feel like she's torn between having to PERFORM as a "cleric of Shar" and be cold and tough and devious, and feeling empty and heartbroken and unsure inside, because she knows she's lost something, she's lost herself, and she doesn't know if it was worth it.

Now, she doesn't outright say all of these things. A lot of that is me reading between the lines, and some of it could be projection on my part. But the fact that the character is written and performed well enough to even make me think those things is pretty compelling, even if I'm not right about everything. But if you haven't seen the post-party "romance" scene with her (it doesn't have to be romantic per se, it could just be friend bonding), you should try to check that out, because it definitely makes her a more sympathetic character.

Astarion and Lae'zel are also very amoral, often rude and hostile, so I can see how people might dislike one or both of them. One guy who was watching my stream said that he HATED Astarion, just based on observing a few interactions. I've seen plenty of people online complain about how terrible Lae'zel is, with no redeeming qualities according to many. But to me, I think they're quite appropriate, given what they've been through. They're both victims, too.

Lae'zel is classic Githyanki, raised in an almost unimaginably awful and twisted culture that literally worships a lich queen who consumes their souls. She has never had a chance to find out how "normal" people behave until now, never been exposed to genuine human decency and kindness. She was raised to project absolute, unflinching, brutal strength at all times. To survive her upbringing, she HAD to become like this. I think, given time around better people, she can come to see how fucked up her culture is, and can begin to make her own choices about who she wishes to be in this world. I'm willing to give her time to do that.

Astarion might have been a dick even before becoming a vampire, there are hints that he was. So maybe of all of them, he could be the most insufferable and irredeemable. But even so, there is room for sympathy here. He was abducted and enslaved against his will, turned into a literal monster, and had his whole life and identity stolen from him. For apparently hundreds of years, he's been living as a slave, under the harsh, cruel thumb of his vampire master. That would twist anyone. From where would he find inspiration to be kind, to value human life, in such circumstances? Now that he's (temporarily) free, he doesn't know what to do with himself. More than any of the others, he is a lost soul, and I think he very much knows this. He hates himself and what he has become, and he is terrified of being taken back to his master and forced into that sinister blood-fueled slavery once again. How long has it been since he had any kind of positive human relationship with anyone? Centuries, perhaps? He clearly just doesn't know HOW to behave at this point. But I think that he, too, can be swayed by a kind influence.

That's my take on the evil companions, anyway.

Last edited by Firesnakearies; 11/11/20 06:19 AM.
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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

Okay, mostly I like Shadowheart because she reminds me a lot of real people that I have been friends with and dated. She comes across to me as a wounded, damaged person who is trying to cover up her pain and uncertainty with a brittle outer shell of standoffishness and lies. I have a iot of sympathy for people like that, because underneath their rudeness and duplicity is just another vulnerable human being who wants to feel safe. I think she's a subtle, layered character. To me, it seems clear that she is performing her "evilness", that it makes her uncomfortable, that really she just loves animals and wants to belong somewhere. Have you done the scene with her after the party where you share a bottle of wine and she opens up some? She seems so lonely, because she's been recruited into this deeply evil cult who demand that their members give up everything about themselves, all of their hopes and dreams. They wiped her memory, so she doesn't even know who she was before, and I feel like she's torn between having to PERFORM as a "cleric of Shar" and be cold and tough and devious, and feeling empty and heartbroken and unsure inside, because she knows she's lost something, she's lost herself, and she doesn't know if it was worth it.

Now, she doesn't outright say all of these things. A lot of that is me reading between the lines, and some of it could be projection on my part. But the fact that the character is written and performed well enough to even make me think those things is pretty compelling, even if I'm not right about everything. But if you haven't seen the post-party "romance" scene with her (it doesn't have to be romantic per se, it could just be friend bonding), you should try to check that out, because it definitely makes her a more sympathetic character.

Astarion and Lae'zel are also very amoral, often rude and hostile, so I can see how people might dislike one or both of them. One guy who was watching my stream said that he HATED Astarion, just based on observing a few interactions. I've seen plenty of people online complain about how terrible Lae'zel is, with no redeeming qualities according to many. But to me, I think they're quite appropriate, given what they've been through. They're both victims, too.

Lae'zel is classic Githyanki, raised in an almost unimaginably awful and twisted culture that literally worships a lich queen who consumes their souls. She has never had a chance to find out how "normal" people behave until now, never been exposed to genuine human decency and kindness. She was raised to project absolute, unflinching, brutal strength at all times. To survive her upbringing, she HAD to become like this. I think, given time around better people, she can come to see how fucked up her culture is, and can begin to make her own choices about who she wishes to be in this world. I'm willing to give her time to do that.

Astarion might have been a dick even before becoming a vampire, there are hints that he was. So maybe of all of them, he could be the most insufferable and irredeemable. But even so, there is room for sympathy here. He was abducted and enslaved against his will, turned into a literal monster, and had his whole life and identity stolen from him. For apparently hundreds of years, he's been living as a slave, under the harsh, cruel thumb of his vampire master. That would twist anyone. From where would he find inspiration to be kind, to value human life, in such circumstances? Now that he's (temporarily) free, he doesn't know what to do with himself. More than any of the others, he is a lost soul, and I think he very much knows this. He hates himself and what he has become, and he is terrified of being taken back to his master and forced into that sinister blood-fueled slavery once again. How long has it been since he had any kind of positive human relationship with anyone? Centuries, perhaps? He clearly just doesn't know HOW to behave at this point. But I think that he, too, can be swayed by a kind influence.

That's my take on the evil companions, anyway.

Are you secretly in my head or something? laugh This was all the things I want to say about them but I am no good at writing things.

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

Okay, mostly I like Shadowheart because she reminds me a lot of real people that I have been friends with and dated. She comes across to me as a wounded, damaged person who is trying to cover up her pain and uncertainty with a brittle outer shell of standoffishness and lies. I have a iot of sympathy for people like that, because underneath their rudeness and duplicity is just another vulnerable human being who wants to feel safe. I think she's a subtle, layered character. To me, it seems clear that she is performing her "evilness", that it makes her uncomfortable, that really she just loves animals and wants to belong somewhere. Have you done the scene with her after the party where you share a bottle of wine and she opens up some? She seems so lonely, because she's been recruited into this deeply evil cult who demand that their members give up everything about themselves, all of their hopes and dreams. They wiped her memory, so she doesn't even know who she was before, and I feel like she's torn between having to PERFORM as a "cleric of Shar" and be cold and tough and devious, and feeling empty and heartbroken and unsure inside, because she knows she's lost something, she's lost herself, and she doesn't know if it was worth it.

Now, she doesn't outright say all of these things. A lot of that is me reading between the lines, and some of it could be projection on my part. But the fact that the character is written and performed well enough to even make me think those things is pretty compelling, even if I'm not right about everything. But if you haven't seen the post-party "romance" scene with her (it doesn't have to be romantic per se, it could just be friend bonding), you should try to check that out, because it definitely makes her a more sympathetic character.

Astarion and Lae'zel are also very amoral, often rude and hostile, so I can see how people might dislike one or both of them. One guy who was watching my stream said that he HATED Astarion, just based on observing a few interactions. I've seen plenty of people online complain about how terrible Lae'zel is, with no redeeming qualities according to many. But to me, I think they're quite appropriate, given what they've been through. They're both victims, too.

Lae'zel is classic Githyanki, raised in an almost unimaginably awful and twisted culture that literally worships a lich queen who consumes their souls. She has never had a chance to find out how "normal" people behave until now, never been exposed to genuine human decency and kindness. She was raised to project absolute, unflinching, brutal strength at all times. To survive her upbringing, she HAD to become like this. I think, given time around better people, she can come to see how fucked up her culture is, and can begin to make her own choices about who she wishes to be in this world. I'm willing to give her time to do that.

Astarion might have been a dick even before becoming a vampire, there are hints that he was. So maybe of all of them, he could be the most insufferable and irredeemable. But even so, there is room for sympathy here. He was abducted and enslaved against his will, turned into a literal monster, and had his whole life and identity stolen from him. For apparently hundreds of years, he's been living as a slave, under the harsh, cruel thumb of his vampire master. That would twist anyone. From where would he find inspiration to be kind, to value human life, in such circumstances? Now that he's (temporarily) free, he doesn't know what to do with himself. More than any of the others, he is a lost soul, and I think he very much knows this. He hates himself and what he has become, and he is terrified of being taken back to his master and forced into that sinister blood-fueled slavery once again. How long has it been since he had any kind of positive human relationship with anyone? Centuries, perhaps? He clearly just doesn't know HOW to behave at this point. But I think that he, too, can be swayed by a kind influence.

That's my take on the evil companions, anyway.

Are you secretly in my head or something? laugh This was all the things I want to say about them but I am no good at writing things.



I'm glad you agree with my amateur assessments. I don't know how to write either, I just flail at the keyboard for a long time until I see a lot of words on the screen, and assume that no one will read them.

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The only one i truly can't stand is Astarion. Hell, i can even see the damaged person thing going on, but how am i supposed to care about the far-off redemption arc when the only way to access it is by being as much of a stupid evil sob as he is? Compare to SH and Lae'zel, but mostly SH, whose approval can go up even by being the 'good guy'. That much, if nothing else, at least speaks of layers. The guy only wants every evil choice, usually stupid ones, hates any kind of good choice, usually sensible ones, and just whines and bitches a whole playthrough if one doesn't roll that way.

Only good thing is that they give you the choice early on to ship him off to his old master, which ironically he'd approve of if it wasn't done to him.

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Astarion's VA is good and annoying at same time; too arrogant, fancy and flirty. Gladly PC will take his roguish spot.
For Shadowheart, beside all emotional things Firesnakearies wrote about, I like her for being pragmatic. Snarky, witty and pragmatic. Perfect, but I was fan of Morrigan too (and she was way more dirty than SH). Guess everybody have their types.
Funny that I rather will trust Shar's priestess than good boy Gale. And Wyll is too boring (also as class, blast it all). Laezel for teh lulz.

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Originally Posted by Verte
Astarion's VA is good and annoying at same time; too arrogant, fancy and flirty. Gladly PC will take his roguish spot.
For Shadowheart, beside all emotional things Firesnakearies wrote about, I like her for being pragmatic. Snarky, witty and pragmatic. Perfect, but I was fan of Morrigan too (and she was way more dirty than SH). Guess everybody have their types.
Funny that I rather will trust Shar's priestess than good boy Gale. And Wyll is too boring (also as class, blast it all). Laezel for teh lulz.

+1
Many of the companions currently available have some very pragmatic personalities and have their own clear goals in mind. I think a lot of the people complaining about the companions just are misunderstanding them. Their lack of compliance for going with whatever you might do is not necessarily the same as the companions being outright hostile towards you.

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Morrigan gave me reasons to take her along and actually her arrogance was based on knowledge and skill. Shadowheart feels like just another priest, nothing special about her until her magic thing popped up. But at the same time between mister vampire, volk hero, superior race princess and mr. god-lover-timebomb her glowing hand isn't even special enough to really notice. Shadowheart is bland as hell and has an arrogance that she can't back up in any way. If she wasn't a cleric and there wasn't a lack for who else you can take along I simply wouldn't. I don't want to put up with her fake mystery and insults while she brings nothing to the party except for demands what I should do.

The sad part is, none of the characters managed to peak my interest because of their personalities. I don't care about their fates and still feel like I know where they will end up - except for Wyll because in my game I couldn't recruit him when I was at the grove and just had him join up after the goblin camp was burned resulting in no conversations with him).

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

I'm glad you agree with my amateur assessments. I don't know how to write either, I just flail at the keyboard for a long time until I see a lot of words on the screen, and assume that no one will read them.

I also read and agree 100% with your assessments.

One thing with Shadowheart, Astarion, and Lae'zel is that how friendly or insulting their dialogue is GREATLY depends on what and how you speak to them. In the very beginning SH says she wishes to remain private (when asked why she was on the nautiloid). This is a HINT that you shouldn't pry into her affairs/background. Most of her nasty comments are when players ignore this and ask her all the questions. If you just give her time she opens up to you and will respond to questions. Lae'zel is also like this . . . waste time asking about random crap and she gets pissed off . . . she wants to deal with the tadpole and anything not directly furthering that end she doesn't have time for.

Larian provides us with lots of dialogue options . . . but unlike many other RPG games where we are conditioned to 'ask all the questions', ie select all options on the left before progressing, this isn't the case with Baldur's Gate 3. It's important to be preceptive and approach your companions in ways they will respond well to (assuming you want to foster a good relationship). You know, kinda like people you meet in real life! 😉 Actually Larian does this in all aspects of the game (gives us lots of options to get ourselves into trouble!)

And I love this about the game!

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Originally Posted by trengilly
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

I'm glad you agree with my amateur assessments. I don't know how to write either, I just flail at the keyboard for a long time until I see a lot of words on the screen, and assume that no one will read them.

I also read and agree 100% with your assessments.

One thing with Shadowheart, Astarion, and Lae'zel is that how friendly or insulting their dialogue is GREATLY depends on what and how you speak to them. In the very beginning SH says she wishes to remain private (when asked why she was on the nautiloid). This is a HINT that you shouldn't pry into her affairs/background. Most of her nasty comments are when players ignore this and ask her all the questions. If you just give her time she opens up to you and will respond to questions. Lae'zel is also like this . . . waste time asking about random crap and she gets pissed off . . . she wants to deal with the tadpole and anything not directly furthering that end she doesn't have time for.

Larian provides us with lots of dialogue options . . . but unlike many other RPG games where we are conditioned to 'ask all the questions', ie select all options on the left before progressing, this isn't the case with Baldur's Gate 3. It's important to be preceptive and approach your companions in ways they will respond well to (assuming you want to foster a good relationship). You know, kinda like people you meet in real life! 😉 Actually Larian does this in all aspects of the game (gives us lots of options to get ourselves into trouble!)

And I love this about the game!


OK, I buy into that, but at the same time they should give me some reason to interact with them. I honestly couldn't tell if the dialogs were bugged, there was nothing more coming or if I pissed NPCs off to the point they didn't want to share. Adding to that that none of them seems to really connect with a big part of the audience, well at least with me, makes me hope I will be able to create a fully custom party because I, for the first time in any party-rpg, have no interest taking along any of the presented companions.

I'm far more interested in the random tieflings and Haslin than any of those 5. I don't even want to bother with their over the top questlines that have nothing to do with my story and they don't even feel like companion quest from other games because they feel far bigger and more important than your own character.


The origin characters all feel like the player characters that most DMs dread - far too big background stories with far too much happening for level 1 characters AND on top of that they are all solitary (evil) edgelords... and that filling spills over into the main game, drowning the player's character own story and putting him/her into a place where you need to be gracious the companions share something with you because you have no story of your own.


Never the less the obersation in the quote is a good point on how they are written and that this would be an interesting new way to develop characters (though other games had it as well, but maybe to a lesser extend communicating more clearly to the players when to interact).

Last edited by biomag; 11/11/20 07:37 PM.
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I don't know.. isn't that how friendships and relationships are? Some people are least likely to hook up or befriend someone who does a lot of things they entirely disagree with. Tolerate, sure, but disagree with?

Usually with these sorts of games, I look up guides to see what the one I want to court will approve of (Cullen FTW), however I've just been playing the way my character would and not minding the approved/disapproved rating. It hasn't exactly been fleshed out yet for me to notice a difference in our friendship status the way it would in Dragon Age. Or at least not a difference that makes me care much. I've never gotten so much disapproval that they've walked out on me yet.

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Really interesting, insightful, and informative input and points of view on this thread folks. I just wanna say I appreciate all of it smile

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
The only one i truly can't stand is Astarion. Hell, i can even see the damaged person thing going on, but how am i supposed to care about the far-off redemption arc when the only way to access it is by being as much of a stupid evil sob as he is? Compare to SH and Lae'zel, but mostly SH, whose approval can go up even by being the 'good guy'. That much, if nothing else, at least speaks of layers. The guy only wants every evil choice, usually stupid ones, hates any kind of good choice, usually sensible ones, and just whines and bitches a whole playthrough if one doesn't roll that way.


Well, you can play an evil character. In that case, redemption isn't an issue. Sensible/not sensible still is, of course.

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Originally Posted by biomag


OK, I buy into that, but at the same time they should give me some reason to interact with them


Well, you're kind of stuck with at least some of them. Unless you'd prefer to have people in your party and not interact with them?

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Originally Posted by trengilly
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

I'm glad you agree with my amateur assessments. I don't know how to write either, I just flail at the keyboard for a long time until I see a lot of words on the screen, and assume that no one will read them.

I also read and agree 100% with your assessments.

One thing with Shadowheart, Astarion, and Lae'zel is that how friendly or insulting their dialogue is GREATLY depends on what and how you speak to them. In the very beginning SH says she wishes to remain private (when asked why she was on the nautiloid). This is a HINT that you shouldn't pry into her affairs/background. Most of her nasty comments are when players ignore this and ask her all the questions. If you just give her time she opens up to you and will respond to questions. Lae'zel is also like this . . . waste time asking about random crap and she gets pissed off . . . she wants to deal with the tadpole and anything not directly furthering that end she doesn't have time for.

Larian provides us with lots of dialogue options . . . but unlike many other RPG games where we are conditioned to 'ask all the questions', ie select all options on the left before progressing, this isn't the case with Baldur's Gate 3. It's important to be preceptive and approach your companions in ways they will respond well to (assuming you want to foster a good relationship). You know, kinda like people you meet in real life! 😉 Actually Larian does this in all aspects of the game (gives us lots of options to get ourselves into trouble!)

And I love this about the game!



This is true! Good points.

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I am not so sure about certain characters or if they are now sooooo deep or sooooo shallow. Neither do I care.

But what is making me a little depressed is that we have little to choose from when it comes to play an evil character.
Shadowsheart is kind of a b*tch yeah.
Yet she often shows logical twitches not agreeable with being evil.

Lae'zel is just a Yautja... eh I mean a Githyanki Xenophobe that feels out of place. ^^
And the most evil Dude is Astarion ironically but only because of his bloodlust.

No one of them feels like a true Ally for my evil Drowess I currently want to try out.
They feel like a "consolation evil group" at best. grin

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by trengilly
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

I'm glad you agree with my amateur assessments. I don't know how to write either, I just flail at the keyboard for a long time until I see a lot of words on the screen, and assume that no one will read them.

I also read and agree 100% with your assessments.

One thing with Shadowheart, Astarion, and Lae'zel is that how friendly or insulting their dialogue is GREATLY depends on what and how you speak to them. In the very beginning SH says she wishes to remain private (when asked why she was on the nautiloid). This is a HINT that you shouldn't pry into her affairs/background. Most of her nasty comments are when players ignore this and ask her all the questions. If you just give her time she opens up to you and will respond to questions. Lae'zel is also like this . . . waste time asking about random crap and she gets pissed off . . . she wants to deal with the tadpole and anything not directly furthering that end she doesn't have time for.

Larian provides us with lots of dialogue options . . . but unlike many other RPG games where we are conditioned to 'ask all the questions', ie select all options on the left before progressing, this isn't the case with Baldur's Gate 3. It's important to be preceptive and approach your companions in ways they will respond well to (assuming you want to foster a good relationship). You know, kinda like people you meet in real life! 😉 Actually Larian does this in all aspects of the game (gives us lots of options to get ourselves into trouble!)

And I love this about the game!



This is true! Good points.


The point is, in the real world, people and the relationships they enter into are complicated. I worked with a guy for some 10 years - I tend toward the liberal end, and he was a self-declared right wing tea-partier, and Trump fanatic. Some might call him "evil", yet he would (and did) give the shirt off his back to anyone in need. He took on parenting for some related children that were not his, because it needed to be done. He was pro LGBTQ, anti-abortion, hard on crime, but yoyoed on immigration. We had some rollicking arguments over the years, and also a ton of laughs. Sadly, he passed away a year ago. The Origin characters so far might not be 100% perfect in their interactions, but they certainly have complex backgrounds and motivations. Hopefully, a year or so of EA will allow them to be further tuned, and latter Acts will expand on what we see in Act 1.

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Originally Posted by trengilly
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies

I'm glad you agree with my amateur assessments. I don't know how to write either, I just flail at the keyboard for a long time until I see a lot of words on the screen, and assume that no one will read them.

I also read and agree 100% with your assessments.

One thing with Shadowheart, Astarion, and Lae'zel is that how friendly or insulting their dialogue is GREATLY depends on what and how you speak to them. In the very beginning SH says she wishes to remain private (when asked why she was on the nautiloid). This is a HINT that you shouldn't pry into her affairs/background. Most of her nasty comments are when players ignore this and ask her all the questions. If you just give her time she opens up to you and will respond to questions. Lae'zel is also like this . . . waste time asking about random crap and she gets pissed off . . . she wants to deal with the tadpole and anything not directly furthering that end she doesn't have time for.

Larian provides us with lots of dialogue options . . . but unlike many other RPG games where we are conditioned to 'ask all the questions', ie select all options on the left before progressing, this isn't the case with Baldur's Gate 3. It's important to be preceptive and approach your companions in ways they will respond well to (assuming you want to foster a good relationship). You know, kinda like people you meet in real life! 😉 Actually Larian does this in all aspects of the game (gives us lots of options to get ourselves into trouble!)

And I love this about the game!


What Firesnake and trengilly said. I'll sum up my own opinion regarding the companions below:

Shadowheart - at first I liked her. She seemed reasonable and the fact that she wasn't pissed at me for failing to get her out of the pod (she was even grateful!) made me happy. I noticed her somewhat drawn back character, and soon I noticed that each time I talked to her - she got hostile even though I didn't exactly try to converse with her, I was simply checking if she had any new lines without digging into the stuff like "We should get to know each other!" since she quite she made it quite clear that she valued her privacy - I thought I'd just check in on her time to time and leave her be. But she grew increasingly hostile to a point where I really started to dislike her - either I cared too much, or not enough - like some type of weird abusive partner. I really started wonder what the F her problem is - and so, as I was digging around on these forums (which I enjoy doing a little bit too much for my own good) - I came across the datamining thread... And well, without spoiling it for those who dislike spoilers - her behavior made sense. Much cause of what Firesnake stated above. So now, I realize her character isn't poorly written and that she isn't trying to be an abusive girlfriend - she is just confused and hurt, and sometimes that barrier comes crashing down (like the celebration after the goblin slaughter xD) - but only for moments at the time.

I would find it extremely unreasonable for someone as confused as SH to just let us in during Act 1 - that would be completely out of character, as far as I can judge. What she'll be like when/if we actually grow a bit closer remains unsaid.

Astarion - I actually love the guy (not romantically though - he is not fit at all for my character). He is very charismatic and as a player I've had plenty of laughs at his remarks and comments. My character is less amused though, but his behavior makes sense as long as you're aware of the *not-so-secret-fact* that he is a vampire. It makes even more sense if you've been digging around the datamining thread to see more bits and pieces of his past. Even though I am struggling to see why my character would keep him around, from a roleplaying perspective, I'll try to find a reason to keep him around because 1) I like having a competent thief in the party and 2) I REALLY wanna see how his story turns out.

Lae'zel - I honestly don't even know how people can dislike her as much as some people seem to do. She is not even throwing that many insults, even when she is mad. Even for someone completely unfamiliar to the gith culture (such as myself) - her characteristics makes perfect sense. And, once again, if you don't mind spoilers and visit the datamining thread, you'll find a lot of reasons why she is the way she is. And a lot of interesting theories on her development.

Wyll - ... ... Probably the person I like second least. He seems to be covering up his narcissism with heroic deeds. Now, I know that a lot of people reason that because Wyll got his powers from his mistress, all of his actions are automatically neutral at best - but never "good". I disagree with this logic - I do not know as much about Wyll as I know about Astarion and SH, or even Lae'zel - but as far as I do know (from just playing the game and a liiiiiittle bit of datamining *cough* mirror *cough*) - I can safely say that I do not, personally, deem the bargain in the first place out of hand. Then the fact that it escalated to the point where he got himself is an entirely different point. I consider him somewhat of an power-addict; it started off as wanting to do good and bring those who done wrong to justice, but ended up with him just wanting to grow more powerful for the sake of... Well, being more powerful. As long as he keeps aiming at bad folks, the actions are reasonably justified (but up for discussion), but I am not so sure that he'd stop even if all evil was wiped out. Not if it costs him the title "hero". Soooo, no. He is a big no for me.

Gale - actually the individual I like the least. And that is NOT cause he is a poorly written character, quite the opposite. I just believe there are several reasons to be cautious of him (and that is not just from data mining, there are loads of speculation threads regarding Gale's nature based on ingame information only). I'll put a spoiler tag here, just in case. Do not read if you don't mind INGAME spoilers about Gale (not sharing datamined information).

First of all, just the tiny fact that he didn't have a tadpode response to us, unlike literally ALL other tadpod-infested companions / NPCs.

Second of all, he is incredibly charismatic and funny, just like Astarion, but I highly question his morals just by the fact that he wants you to cheat on your particular partner. Did not happen to me personally as I didn't romance, but I observed that he had asked multiple characters to cheat on their chosen ones in one of the Gale threads.

Third of all, the fact that he has this artifact within him - and even tell you that he is feeling unstable/hungry ("I need to eat the next artifact we find - PRONTO") AND STILL DECIDE TO STICK AROUND is absolutely baffling. That is NOT what a *good* (as in opposite of evil) would do!

Fourth of all, and while he still sticks around with this bomb (apart from the tadpode, assuming he actually has one) WITHOUT TELLING US for a very good long while.

Fifth of all, he seems as obsessed as Wyll with being the greatest of all.

In short - I dislike him as a character and I definitely would not trust him with anything at all. But I do find him endlessly interesting, as a character.


Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian
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Originally Posted by AlanC9
Originally Posted by Innateagle
The only one i truly can't stand is Astarion. Hell, i can even see the damaged person thing going on, but how am i supposed to care about the far-off redemption arc when the only way to access it is by being as much of a stupid evil sob as he is? Compare to SH and Lae'zel, but mostly SH, whose approval can go up even by being the 'good guy'. That much, if nothing else, at least speaks of layers. The guy only wants every evil choice, usually stupid ones, hates any kind of good choice, usually sensible ones, and just whines and bitches a whole playthrough if one doesn't roll that way.


Well, you can play an evil character. In that case, redemption isn't an issue. Sensible/not sensible still is, of course.



I was more pointing out the fact that most people expect all of those characters to grow/mellow out, and yet the only way for Astarion's approval to grow is to be as stupidly evil as he is. Former doesn't make any sense with the latter.

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It is interesting how a game takes those characters seriously considering the circumstances they are in and it somehow seems over the top, compared to the usual fantasy tropes of "the human player without flaws, except that one flaw to make the character authentic".

So far, every character seems interesting enough for people to disagree on them. They are off putting in the beginning but its just their evil costume, they are all human-esque underneath their skin, a bloody mess.

All companions had their already illusionary rug pulled from under their feet but of course they are totally in charge and their past experiences are the most important ones, with gale even knowing pretty much everything about our current state (banter).

Great job writing those characters, they actually feel like their age.


Other than this, whatever firesnake said

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