Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2020
A
Airdrin Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Starting at level 1 works well for BG1, and Dragon Age 1 because you and your first companions are fresh adventurers. I am unsure it works with BG3 because all the companions, including the player character, have detailed stories going back years.

I think a good solution would be to add an option to allow players to start at 3rd level, and level shifting the whole game as a result. That way you aren't a squishy first level fresh adventurer but instead just not a powerful one. If would also allow players to try different builds rapidly instead of playing for several hours to try new subclasses should they have to reach 3rd level to make those decisions.

This also gives the bosses access to more abilities and spells which could make those fights more interesting.

I only think that this should be an option though as starting at 1st level is an easy way to start the game.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
I wrote about it at length before, but I don't think it's true. The only one of the companions I would consider to be more than a level 1 character is Gale, and even he is iffy


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
I would totes love this.

Joined: Aug 2014
F
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
F
Joined: Aug 2014
I strongly disagree. Having life experiences doesn't mean you're a seasoned combatant.

Joined: Nov 2020
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Nov 2020
would agree if youd start in a remote village, but they all have a larva in theirs brain. so regressing isnt out of idea, and they do all have backstory, but nothing realy big(nothings like slaying goddess or things like that), making it possible that the exp they have gather was enough for them to go from ''commoner'' to ''Adventurer class lvl1'' ... no? i have mostly spam reload to try things from multiple angle so i cant say i know all theirs bg.

but i know astarion a bit and he first hide is power, then if you let him do what he want at the cutscene at the camp, he got a new attack. and since then, you are lvl 3. so its not out of range


french canadian who prefer to interact with the english forum. sorry if i make mistake. i do my best ;P
Joined: Mar 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Mar 2020
I distinctly get the impression the level dynamic is separate to the story. At least in the sense this isn’t your usual lvl 1 ward/farmer boy, starter story and the story ignores levels. I.e. the level number is almost an arbitrary aside.

That’s at least how the EA feels to me currently. Red dragons, under dark, illithids etc...

I could be wrong, and I guess as long as I can’t kill something I’m not supposed to (I.e. monsters scale to you so you can complete game at level 1 - yes Elder Scrolls I’m looking at you!!), then I’m not against a more epic adventure even if my level doesn’t traditionally match up.

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
You level to two in about 15 minutes and three in maybe 45 minutes without rushing it.

Astarion is centuries old.

I do wish the mechanics would support the narrative a bit better. It would be enough to offer a small prologue adventure just for the main PC to level to 3. And when you meet the companions they are lvl 3+, except for Astarion who you could meet later in Baldur's Gate where he'd be level 5+.

Everyone shouldn't always be exactly the same level either. Have room for some dynamics.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by 1varangian
You level to two in about 15 minutes and three in maybe 45 minutes without rushing it.

This. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but it's accurate. You blow through levels 1 & 2.

Joined: Jul 2014
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2014
I get what the OP is saying. Maybe it would be fair to start as level 2, just for a feel of you not being a complete 0, but IMO that's about it.

Joined: Nov 2020
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by 1varangian
You level to two in about 15 minutes and three in maybe 45 minutes without rushing it.

Astarion is centuries old.

I do wish the mechanics would support the narrative a bit better. It would be enough to offer a small prologue adventure just for the main PC to level to 3. And when you meet the companions they are lvl 3+, except for Astarion who you could meet later in Baldur's Gate where he'd be level 5+.

Everyone shouldn't always be exactly the same level either. Have room for some dynamics.


yup, getting to lvl 3 is fast.

astarion is centuries old. but even old elven can be lvl 1 in a DD campaign

the narrative isnt a lots out of grid : you are weak, got caught by lvl 8ilithid , seem legit. fight imp and small brain with legs, low lvl CR. then face goblin, its kinda gratuated, then gnoll, swampimp.

even in a real dd game, going to the underdark isnt that much for a low lvl character. sure. theres HIGH risk of meeting things you shoudnt. but a lvl1 drow is still lvl1 or a acid pit can be climb . as a veteran dd player, i dont find the pace too fast. getting out of the druid to search for haslin could easily take 2 or 3 game. or twice if you got some chaotic player who thinks WAY out of the box.


french canadian who prefer to interact with the english forum. sorry if i make mistake. i do my best ;P
Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
What difference would altering the starting level even make?
As far as I am aware you can't avoid the fight with the three intellect devourers after the tutorial without having to resort to stealth or some acrobatic jumps (AKA methods barely anyone is going to attempt on their first blind playthrough) yet you have amassed enough XP to reach level 2 upon beating the encounter. From there on you have a handful of opportunities, all of which quickly will result in you levelling up again due to the very small amount of XP you need for the first handful of levels.

This means that by the time the game starts to 'open up' and move out of the initial post-tutorial area you're already level 3 or close to reaching it. You should be able to live without the benefits of being level 3 for the first one or two hours of the game.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Someone who has achieved a level in a class is not some nobody farmboy who's never been in a battle before. Being a 1st level wizard or fighter automatically puts you in a league of your own and sets you a part from common farmhands or even experienced soldiers.

Level 1 characters are allowed to have interesting backstories in 5e.

Beyond that most of them aren't even that crazy as far as backgrounds go. We've got:

- A 20 something Githyanki fighter who's never been to the Astral Plane before and worries about dying before she achieves anything worth remembering.
- An amnesiac cleric who might be on her first major mission for her goddess so far as we know currently.
- A 200 year old vampire spawn... Who lived in Baldur's Gate as a servant of a powerful vampire and probably spent most of his time going to parties and spying for his master.
- A prodigy wizard who slept with the goddess of magic, then went on an adventure to win her back and royally botched it. Mentions he is weaker than he used to be.
- A folk hero who made a pact with a fiend to gain the power he needed to become famous. Also mentions being weaker than he once was, suggesting he's not on good terms with his patron or the tadpole is messing with him.

They all have a good reason to be first level ranging from lost power to lost memories or simply not having been on a big adventure yet.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Someone who has achieved a level in a class is not some nobody farmboy who's never been in a battle before. Being a 1st level wizard or fighter automatically puts you in a league of your own and sets you a part from common farmhands or even experienced soldiers.

Level 1 characters are allowed to have interesting backstories in 5e.

Beyond that most of them aren't even that crazy as far as backgrounds go. We've got:

- A 20 something Githyanki fighter who's never been to the Astral Plane before and worries about dying before she achieves anything worth remembering.
- An amnesiac cleric who might be on her first major mission for her goddess so far as we know currently.
- A 200 year old vampire spawn... Who lived in Baldur's Gate as a servant of a powerful vampire and probably spent most of his time going to parties and spying for his master.
- A prodigy wizard who slept with the goddess of magic, then went on an adventure to win her back and royally botched it. Mentions he is weaker than he used to be.
- A folk hero who made a pact with a fiend to gain the power he needed to become famous. Also mentions being weaker than he once was, suggesting he's not on good terms with his patron or the tadpole is messing with him.

They all have a good reason to be first level ranging from lost power to lost memories or simply not having been on a big adventure yet.



Good post. Agreed.

Joined: Nov 2020
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Someone who has achieved a level in a class is not some nobody farmboy who's never been in a battle before. Being a 1st level wizard or fighter automatically puts you in a league of your own and sets you a part from common farmhands or even experienced soldiers.

Level 1 characters are allowed to have interesting backstories in 5e.

Beyond that most of them aren't even that crazy as far as backgrounds go. We've got:

- A 20 something Githyanki fighter who's never been to the Astral Plane before and worries about dying before she achieves anything worth remembering.
- An amnesiac cleric who might be on her first major mission for her goddess so far as we know currently.
- A 200 year old vampire spawn... Who lived in Baldur's Gate as a servant of a powerful vampire and probably spent most of his time going to parties and spying for his master.
- A prodigy wizard who slept with the goddess of magic, then went on an adventure to win her back and royally botched it. Mentions he is weaker than he used to be.
- A folk hero who made a pact with a fiend to gain the power he needed to become famous. Also mentions being weaker than he once was, suggesting he's not on good terms with his patron or the tadpole is messing with him.

They all have a good reason to be first level ranging from lost power to lost memories or simply not having been on a big adventure yet.



Good post. Agreed.


cant be explain any better. but with a bit of spoiler :P

Last edited by MatThee0g; 11/11/20 05:27 PM.

french canadian who prefer to interact with the english forum. sorry if i make mistake. i do my best ;P
Joined: Oct 2020
T
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Someone who has achieved a level in a class is not some nobody farmboy who's never been in a battle before. Being a 1st level wizard or fighter automatically puts you in a league of your own and sets you a part from common farmhands or even experienced soldiers.

Level 1 characters are allowed to have interesting backstories in 5e.

Beyond that most of them aren't even that crazy as far as backgrounds go. We've got:

- A 20 something Githyanki fighter who's never been to the Astral Plane before and worries about dying before she achieves anything worth remembering.
- An amnesiac cleric who might be on her first major mission for her goddess so far as we know currently.
- A 200 year old vampire spawn... Who lived in Baldur's Gate as a servant of a powerful vampire and probably spent most of his time going to parties and spying for his master.
- A prodigy wizard who slept with the goddess of magic, then went on an adventure to win her back and royally botched it. Mentions he is weaker than he used to be.
- A folk hero who made a pact with a fiend to gain the power he needed to become famous. Also mentions being weaker than he once was, suggesting he's not on good terms with his patron or the tadpole is messing with him.

They all have a good reason to be first level ranging from lost power to lost memories or simply not having been on a big adventure yet.


I also agree with this post. I think a lot of the background stories, from a mechanical standpoint, covers someone going from a level 1 commoners to level 1 adventurer class.

The ONLY backstory I'm a little iffy about is Gale's. He was someone, by his own words, "capable of feats even archwizard would marvel at" (from a camp convo). Aside from character power, a huge part of character advancement in D&D is accumulated in wealth and access (social status, networks, etc). We know he lost actual character power and you can stretch it and justify the wealth all disappearing because he spent it all to feed himself, but he doesn't acted like someone who's had social power.

This makes the fact that he's willing to follow and bumble cluelessly around with the PC in the beginning, when he thought transformation was merely days away, VERY jarring.

Given his background, I would have expected him to behave a bit more like Lae'zel (in terms of "take-charged-ness, not so much the hostile attitude"). You'd think he would be the one with the plan (hey I know high-level cleric X, Y, and Z, let's go to them), since at this point, he has far more experience than the main character.

Joined: Oct 2020
Z
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Z
Joined: Oct 2020
Mostly I wonder how Gale casts Mirror Image at level 2.

Joined: Oct 2020
N
member
Offline
member
N
Joined: Oct 2020
i wouldnt mind this if this was an opt-in choice for the player (similarly to just starting on the beach and avoiding the need to go through the ship battle multiple times for each start, but i think the 'start/tutorial' of the game overall needs some tweaking) even tho im not sure it should be a high priority for larian compared to other topics.

i also would have some minor concerns about 'rushing' content for whatever thats worth depending on what the games hard level cap is - starting at lvl 3 and only getting to lvl 4 as part of ea/act 1 can be understandable, but starting at lvl 3 and then reaching max lvl of 8 (for ex - idk if larian has been firm on a hard lvl cap) by mid act 2 could leave a player not leveling for portions of end game content. im not sure what an easy solution to that is or if it even is an issue but just theorycrafting some possible shortcomings of starting at a higher lvl for a game that has hard lvl caps, but i thinking leaving the choice with the player is the best way to go overall

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Topgoon
We know he lost actual character power and you can stretch it and justify the wealth all disappearing because he spent it all to feed himself, but he doesn't acted like someone who's had social power.

This makes the fact that he's willing to follow and bumble cluelessly around with the PC in the beginning, when he thought transformation was merely days away, VERY jarring.

Given his background, I would have expected him to behave a bit more like Lae'zel (in terms of "take-charged-ness, not so much the hostile attitude"). You'd think he would be the one with the plan (hey I know high-level cleric X, Y, and Z, let's go to them), since at this point, he has far more experience than the main character.



To be fair, Gale has been kidnapped, thrown across multiple worlds via an Illithid ship, and then crash landed in the middle of nowhere. He is quite separated from any wealth or resources he might have had access to otherwise and his magic had been severely depleted and as far as he knows he has only hours to live. All in all he's handling it pretty well.

Plus not everyone with social power is necessarily good at wielding it. Gale might have been wealthy due to his skill in magic but that doesn't mean he's the take charge leader kind of person. If some billionaire CEO was dropped on a beach with nothing but their clothes and had to face the wilderness and a hoard of goblins I doubt they'd prove all that capable. If anything Gale relying on the PC the way he does just shows that he recognizes where his skill set isn't enough to get a job done.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5